AnxiousBoy Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'm wondering if anyone has any insight on how the programs make their rank list. I matched in FM but slid really far on my list. I saw the unfilled position list up on carms and am really surprised at the number of programs whom I ranked higher on the list but have unfilled positions. One program has almost all of their spots unfilled. So the question is, are programs that arrogant and rank only a select number of candidates? Am I just that undesirable as a candidate? I just don't understand what goes through their mind when they make their list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'm wondering if anyone has any insight on how the programs make their rank list. I matched in FM but slid really far on my list. I saw the unfilled position list up on carms and am really surprised at the number of programs whom I ranked higher on the list but have unfilled positions. One program has almost all of their spots unfilled. So the question is, are programs that arrogant and rank only a select number of candidates? Am I just that undesirable as a candidate? I just don't understand what goes through their mind when they make their list... Where do you see the unfilled positions list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnxiousBoy Posted March 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Where do you see the unfilled positions list? Carms main page. Inside the message box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngdad Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 could someone screenshot or post the unfilled list for people that can't access it? Just go to the CaRMS main page. Its right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkdork Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 link for the lazy http://www.carms.ca/Re42_gryws/Br878T_1OverviewByUniversity_EN.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Wow, free Derm spot in Ottawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 ..and ENT in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I wonder what the stories behind those are...saving them for someone, perhaps? Fully trained IMG to do all your work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavrik13 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 So U of T has no unmatched spots? Seems strange to me - is this the final list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Wow, FM killed it this year. I feel pretty happy about landing my 4th choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnmaple Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm wondering if anyone has any insight on how the programs make their rank list. I matched in FM but slid really far on my list. I saw the unfilled position list up on carms and am really surprised at the number of programs whom I ranked higher on the list but have unfilled positions. One program has almost all of their spots unfilled. So the question is, are programs that arrogant and rank only a select number of candidates? Am I just that undesirable as a candidate? I just don't understand what goes through their mind when they make their list... What role does the "IMG stream" play in what you see? My understanding may be imperfect, but in Ontario isn't there a second stream of first round spots, the "IMG spots," which CMGs are not eligible for? And then, if THOSE spots are unfilled, they revert to the free-for-all unfilled spots of second round. So... FM Progam X has 6 CMG spots and 2 IMG spots in first round. 10 CMGs rank Program X as their #1, let's say. So 6 get in and the other 4 slide down their ROL. Meanwhile, Program X only matches 1 IMG for whatever reason. Second round: Program X now has 1 unfilled spot, open to all second round applicants. (I think that is how it works?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 That's more or less correct. The list of second round spots doesn't explicitly specify all those which were originally IMG spots for whatever reason, so if something is unfilled, it doesn't mean that it reflects not filling the original CMG quota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 My understanding may be imperfect, but in Ontario isn't there a second stream of first round spots, the "IMG spots," which CMGs are not eligible for? And then, if THOSE spots are unfilled, they revert to the free-for-all unfilled spots of second round. That's also my understanding. Those spots are 100% politically driven, so the government can pretend they are helping healthcare without fixing the root of any problem. It's good optics at election time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnface Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I wonder what the stories behind those are...saving them for someone, perhaps? a little bird told me these are spots the schools never intended (and do not intend) to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I can see that. Ent and urology are having job market difficulties so this could be how they are going to deal with them. But derm, that makes no sense from a public policy perspective. We have a huge derm shortage. Are they squeezing it even tighter? If so, that's despicable. Nlengr is right. Lots of IMg spots and family spots look good politically but really don't get to the roots of any problems. Lots of times the programs don't want the spot because they don't have the space. But the university forces them to put it on CaRMS because the govt. leans on the university. The programs interviews a few people, says nobody met criteria and doesn't rank anyone. Everyone has been through the motions so the govt. and uni are happy, and the program is happy because they don'thave too many residents in that year. Of course the whole wasteful exercise could be avoided if the universities and governments listened to the programs, royal college and specialty associations (esp the programs) but that's not going to happen. It's too close to human resources planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemPetE Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Not dissimilar from what Rad Onc did a few years ago, but that was no secret and they just took out the spots that were no longer available, plus are restricting transfer requests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavrik13 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Not dissimilar from what Rad Onc did a few years ago, but that was no secret and they just took out the spots that were no longer available, plus are restricting transfer requests. I'm actually a little surprised at what happened with Rad Onc this time around... I can understand why people wouldn't want to go to Queen's, but why did all three of Mac's spots go unmatched, when Western went 2/2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikchok_jr Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I'm actually a little surprised at what happened with Rad Onc this time around... I can understand why people wouldn't want to go to Queen's, but why did all three of Mac's spots go unmatched, when Western went 2/2? Why wouldn't people want to go to Queen's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnface Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Why wouldn't people want to go to Queen's? Kingston... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemPetE Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I was quite surprised too at the Rad Onc match, especially compared to last year. I certainly would be interested in hearing anyone comment or speculate on why that might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 You can't unintentionally leave a space blank. You have x number of spots, and you have y number of candidates. There is no way to tell how deep down the list you'd go to fill your spots unless you are certain you have worked something out under the table. If you have 4 spots, you can't rank 3 people expecting to have 1 spot open. Likewise, you may end up ranking 10 people and match only 2. So I don't see how programs can "strategically" rank candidates and be sure to have a predetermined number of spots left over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc7 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 You can't unintentionally leave a space blank. You have x number of spots, and you have y number of candidates. There is no way to tell how deep down the list you'd go to fill your spots unless you are certain you have worked something out under the table. If you have 4 spots, you can't rank 3 people expecting to have 1 spot open. Likewise, you may end up ranking 10 people and match only 2. So I don't see how programs can "strategically" rank candidates and be sure to have a predetermined number of spots left over. In Ontario they chose to not rank anyone for the IMG spots.....I think that does the trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 In Ontario they chose to not rank anyone for the IMG spots.....I think that does the trick I second that. There is no cross over between the first round CMG stream and the first round IMG stream in Ontario. Hence, if you have a first round IMG spot and you rank nobody, you can still fill all your CMG spots because it comes from a different pool of applicants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Oh ok so those spots that we see left over in first round are sometimes due to IMG spots not bring filled? That's so dirty.. What if you're an IMG putting effort competing for one of those and you don't stand a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I'm actually a little surprised at what happened with Rad Onc this time around... I can understand why people wouldn't want to go to Queen's, but why did all three of Mac's spots go unmatched, when Western went 2/2? I love analyzing stuff like that but sometimes it is just a bit of noise in the system - the number of people applying to rad onc is pretty small after all, they have have just like the other schools better. It is why you can get the odd rad, derm, urology, ENT.... position popping up in any given year (this year we had all four)> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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