Logic of the 'Suicide Match'

[chicagoschool]

Based on my understanding of the CaRMS match process, I don't see the benefit of listing only one choice, to which I've seen some members here be congratulated for being "ballsy". What am I missing?

[rmorelan]

Based on my understanding of the CaRMS match process, I don't see the benefit of listing only one choice, to which I've seen some members here be congratulated for being "ballsy". What am I missing?

 

There isn't one - at least on paper. It is a very, very risky move.

[ellorie]

I think it's just that you have to ask yourself, for every program "would I rather end up here or not match?"

 

I suppose for some people they would rather not match. I have no idea why. I think I would die of anxiety if I did that.

[thebouque]

You mean one choice of discipline or 1 choice period?

[Jochi1543]

Don't do it, I was told by my advisor that he would be "shocked" if I didn't match into my 1st choice and I ended up in my 4th. My first choice program had been left with 10+ unfilled spots after second round for many years, so it's not like I was going for some super-competitive program, either. But this year, it was full after round 1 and as evidenced by my experience, even people who had ranked it 1st were refused. So I would've gone unmatched if I had only listed 1 or 2 choices.

 

On the other hand, basically everybody in my current program had ranked it 1st and it's supposed to be very competitive. I had to fend off a very eager med student who is "desperate" to match there and was looking for tips, and yet it's my 4th choice. So you never know with CaRMS. I'm sure there are people out there who had ranked my current program 1st or 2nd and didn't get in, yet I did.

[rmorelan]

I think it's just that you have to ask yourself, for every program "would I rather end up here or not match?"

 

I suppose for some people they would rather not match. I have no idea why. I think I would die of anxiety if I did that.

 

That is exactly the right question - to add to it ask yourself if I didn't match in round 1 would I be applying to this in round 2? If so they most likely you should have applied to it in round 1. That is just how the system works.

[Cerena]

Don't do it, I was told by my advisor that he would be "shocked" if I didn't match into my 1st choice and I ended up in my 4th. My first choice program had been left with 10+ unfilled spots after second round for many years, so it's not like I was going for some super-competitive program, either. But this year, it was full after round 1 and as evidenced by my experience, even people who had ranked it 1st were refused. So I would've gone unmatched if I had only listed 1 or 2 choices.

 

On the other hand, basically everybody in my current program had ranked it 1st and it's supposed to be very competitive. I had to fend off a very eager med student who is "desperate" to match there and was looking for tips, and yet it's my 4th choice. So you never know with CaRMS. I'm sure there are people out there who had ranked my current program 1st or 2nd and didn't get in, yet I did.

 

Wow, that sounds super unpredictable!

[rmorelan]

Wow, that sounds super unpredictable!

 

CARMS is a bit - if you really want something you have to apply broadly to make sure you chances are high.

[thebouque]

Wow, that sounds super unpredictable!

 

It sums up carms pretty well

[HycrestJIT]

I think it's just that you have to ask yourself, for every program "would I rather end up here or not match?"

I suppose for some people they would rather not match. I have no idea why. I think I would die of anxiety if I did that.

 

That's why I only applied for and ranked one program. I didn't want to risk going elsewhere at that time in my life. I certainly wouldn't recommend it to most people, and maybe wouldn't do it again, but it worked for me.

 

Funny, my current fellow FPA resident also only applied for 1 Family Medicine program when he did his match.

[masterb]

what about ranking 1 specialty (EM) across the board don't really care about the location? is it possible to do this and get through carms with a match? also how does applying to the US work? I can't do electives in the US but want to also use the American match system as a back up to carms instead of applying to a back up specialty? has anyone done this successfully?

[Jochi1543]

EM was insanely popular in our year, my home program got like 700 applications, or something absurd like that. Everyone knew that it was going to be competitive, so AFAIK people generally applied to every program available. Still, quite a few people didn't match into EM. Definitely don't skip out on a few back-ups if you want to apply to EM. As you can expect, people backed up with FM with the expectation of going for the R3 in EM after.

 

I generally would advise backing up if you are applying to anything other than FM. I can think of quite a few people who weren't able to get a spot in their 1st choice specialty despite applying to 7-8 programs in that specialty, and they are all pretty competent and normal people, so it's not like they had a huge red flag on their applications or anything.

[leviathan]

Emerg is not as tough for American grads, but if you're Canadian, that means they'd have to spend money to sponsor you for a work visa through the government. That makes them less likely to rank you, unless they really like you. You'd have to have high USMLE scores and preferably a few electives at the places you want to match to have a decent shot. I'm not saying don't apply, but don't expect the US to be a viable 'backup' for anything besides FM IM etc.

 

As for Canada, 98 people ranked EM as their first choice and 67 of those people (68%) matched into it. So the odds aren't that great in either country.

[rmorelan]

EM was insanely popular in our year, my home program got like 700 applications, or something absurd like that. Everyone knew that it was going to be competitive, so AFAIK people generally applied to every program available. Still, quite a few people didn't match into EM. Definitely don't skip out on a few back-ups if you want to apply to EM. As you can expect, people backed up with FM with the expectation of going for the R3 in EM after.

 

I generally would advise backing up if you are applying to anything other than FM. I can think of quite a few people who weren't able to get a spot in their 1st choice specialty despite applying to 7-8 programs in that specialty, and they are all pretty competent and normal people, so it's not like they had a huge red flag on their applications or anything.

 

I have seen the same thing unfortunately - I have even seen people with no red flags fall through and didn't match in their second choice either (which wasn't that competitive). CARMS does have elements of luck in it.

[Alastriss]

The logic behind suicide matching is that you can watch and wait to see what's left over in the second round and then go for those spots. It's a risky move because you never know what's left in the second round, and on occasion some competitive specialties (like urology, ENT) can have a leftover spot or two in the second round.

 

The other aspect of suicide matching is waiting to see if you find a 5 year program at the school you want to go to and trying to get that spot with the hopes of switching residencies.

[masterb]

Wow from the UofT EM carms interview video, they got 300 applications for 10 spots, that's worse odds than applying to medical school in some situations. Looks like the only way to guarantee getting an EM residency in north america is to get a 260 in the USMLE, have 2 publications, volunteer, compete in the olympics and know some one in the Mob that has a committee member on their payroll. I can't imagine having to compete for Derm/Optho/ENT

 

Don't do it, I was told by my advisor that he would be "shocked" if I didn't match into my 1st choice and I ended up in my 4th. My first choice program had been left with 10+ unfilled spots after second round for many years, so it's not like I was going for some super-competitive program, either. But this year, it was full after round 1 and as evidenced by my experience, even people who had ranked it 1st were refused. So I would've gone unmatched if I had only listed 1 or 2 choices.

 

On the other hand, basically everybody in my current program had ranked it 1st and it's supposed to be very competitive. I had to fend off a very eager med student who is "desperate" to match there and was looking for tips, and yet it's my 4th choice. So you never know with CaRMS. I'm sure there are people out there who had ranked my current program 1st or 2nd and didn't get in, yet I did.

[uwodesperate]

Wow from the UofT EM carms interview video, they got 300 applications for 10 spots, that's worse odds than applying to medical school in some situations. Looks like the only way to guarantee getting an EM residency in north america is to get a 260 in the USMLE, have 2 publications, volunteer, compete in the olympics and know some one in the Mob that has a committee member on their payroll. I can't imagine having to compete for Derm/Optho/ENT

 

What is the ballpark figure for the number of applications received by the programs for super super competitive specialties (plastics, derm, opthol etc)?

[Alastriss]

Switching rates are notoriously low, and are getting worse every year. Don't depend on it, even if you want to downgrade to family.

 

See, I thought this too, but I'm honestly not so sure. I've heard that there is an email sent out in January to people who want to jump ship, and that a fair number of people do in fact switch over. I've seen a lot of specialty --> family, but I've heard of a fair number of stories of switching from family --> subspecialty. I know a guy who actually could have switched from family --> rads after initially unmatching, but opted not to in the end due to personal reasons.

 

I know of another guy who matched to family then switched into anesthesia after 1 year of residency (and got into PGY2 anesthesia), and this was BETWEEN different schools, not even same school!

 

I'm inclined to think it happens more than people on the forums here talk about, but maybe I have a skewed sample. I still wouldn't depend on it, but I think that the rates are a lot higher than they are made out to be on these boards.

[Alastriss]

Wow from the UofT EM carms interview video, they got 300 applications for 10 spots, that's worse odds than applying to medical school in some situations. Looks like the only way to guarantee getting an EM residency in north america is to get a 260 in the USMLE, have 2 publications, volunteer, compete in the olympics and know some one in the Mob that has a committee member on their payroll. I can't imagine having to compete for Derm/Optho/ENT

 

EM is competitive but you have to remember that there are a lot of applicants who just didn't apply broadly, and who aren't that serious about ER. My buddies who went on the tours said that there's a handful of people who are with you EVERYWHERE, and those are the ones that are serious. There are a lot here and there that apply to a few programs and split them between IM/ER, or ER/Family and ultimately even after applying, don't interview or don't even rank a lot of ER programs (I know of a few people myself), so those stats look worse than they actually are. The stats are trickier to interpret than med school admission stats.

 

With that said, it is still pretty competitive.