How Accurate is the MSP Blue Book Billing?

[Economist]

Hi, I was wondering how accurate the figures from the Blue Book is for physician billing?

 

Reference: http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legislation/pdf/bluebook2012.pdf

 

They say that

"The practitioner payments exclude benefit payments, which are reported under the BCMA. Payments made on behalf of the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia and WorkSafeBC are not included in the payment amount."

 

How much discrepancy would the payments from Insurance Corporation of BC/WorkSafeBC make to the total amount of the billing?

 

I looked up a Cardiologist that I'll be working with and he billed ~450K. Taking the overhead (assuming around 40%?), you are left with 270K before tax. Not as high as some people say about Cardiologists.

 

Also I've looked up a number of GP's that I know of, and they all billed under 400k. Taking overhead of 50%? , that is less than 200k before tax income for the 5 GP's that I looked up.

[Dr.Henderson]

Moo, who was once pretty regular on here said it wasn't unusual for a GP to add anywhere from 10-30% onto their billings through private stuff/ICBC/WCB/etc depending on their practice.

 

Also: who in their right mind would be paying 50% in overhead expenses? hahaha

[justletmein]

Also I've looked up a number of GP's that I know of, and they all billed under 400k. Taking overhead of 50%? , that is less than 200k before tax income for the 5 GP's that I looked up.

 

GP's do not pay anywhere near 50% overhead.

[rmorelan]

GP's do not pay anywhere near 50% overhead.

 

Yeah in standard group practises it is around 30% I hear, although I have seen it as low as 22% in a large practise. That place was run right!

[Economist]

I see, so the avg income of the GP's I know are around 280-300k before tax. That's not bad!

[rmorelan]

I see, so the avg income of the GP's I know are around 280-300k before tax. That's not bad!

 

Not sure if you are working with more active doctors - the number the CFMS posted at the last meeting I was at was an average of about 230 before tax. That probably includes many different types of practice of course.

[Economist]

Not sure if you are working with more active doctors - the number the CFMS posted at the last meeting I was at was an average of about 230 before tax. That probably includes many different types of practice of course.

 

I see. Were there any figures presented at the meeting for other specialties??

[rmorelan]

I see. Were there any figures presented at the meeting for other specialties??

 

Nope just them - each specialty was just too hard to generalize and too small a group for the meeting. Plus the point was to show that family doc were earning reasonable incomes.

[Economist]

Where does overhead come into play?

 

230K before tax means after overhead is paid off.

So assuming 30% overhead,

 

~330K gross

~230K before tax

~150K take home income

 

~12.5K per month

[futureGP]

i saw a locum ad with 10% overhead in the GTA on one of the classifiedsss

 

10% overhead!

[Knovecc]

the number the CFMS posted at the last meeting I was at was an average of about 230 before tax.

 

the CIHI number is 240k average before overhead for BC GPs

so: 240k gross = 170k pretax = 115k net income

 

looks depressing!!!!

[bloh]

the CIHI number is 240k average before overhead for BC GPs

so: 240k gross = 170k pretax = 115k net income

 

looks depressing!!!!

 

Nearly 10,000 take home money per month looks depressing? Clearly, you've never had a real job in the real world. Ask mommy to explain.

[Knovecc]

Nearly 10,000 take home money per month looks depressing? Clearly, you've never had a real job in the real world. Ask mommy to explain.

 

really? You're gonna feel great when you have all your medschool buddies around you make easily twice as much as you while they went to the same school as you, work as much as you, and enjoy as much vacation as you do?

110k < 200k, that's mathematics, and I don't need mommy to explain this crap.

[Mourning Cloak]

the CIHI number is 240k average before overhead for BC GPs

so: 240k gross = 170k pretax = 115k net income

 

To make more money than the average, you must:

 

1) do a job no one else wants to do

 

or

 

2) do the job where no one else wants to do it

 

or

 

3) work a hell of a lot harder than anyone else (this includes gunning for that cardiology residency)

 

Obviously BC GPs (as a group) don't fall into any of those categories (I bet Vancouver skews the numbers). Having said that, the solo-practice dude doing 1:1 call up in Bella Coola is probably raking it in.

[futureGP]

the CIHI number is 240k average before overhead for BC GPs

so: 240k gross = 170k pretax = 115k net income

 

looks depressing!!!!

 

what kind of world do you live in?

entitled much?

[Jochi1543]

To make more money than the average, you must:

 

1) do a job no one else wants to do

 

or

 

2) do the job where no one else wants to do it

 

or

 

3) work a hell of a lot harder than anyone else (this includes gunning for that cardiology residency)

Excellent summary

[rmorelan]

S'all relative brah. 10,000 monthly is good if you're comparing yourself to your BSc friend who works at Starbucks or in some retail gig. But when comparing yourself to your cardiology and radiology med school buddies, it doesn't seem too hot.

 

they also have 6 more years of residency, work more hours, and don't have the freedoms. This is an endless debate I suppose (not to say those that rads and cardio if they can get the work aren't doing well).

 

and you have to be making some very specific choices to have 30% overhead

 

I suppose I will add my usual statement that you can structure your tax to be a lot better than just taking it as salary.

[rmorelan]

Excellent summary

 

yup - and that usually goes in most professional fields by the way

[leviathan]

really? You're gonna feel great when you have all your medschool buddies around you make easily twice as much as you while they went to the same school as you, work as much as you, and enjoy as much vacation as you do?

110k < 200k, that's mathematics, and I don't need mommy to explain this crap.

Cardiologists didn't go to the same 'school' as you (family medicine is a different residency from internal medicine + cards subspecialty training for many more years), and work way more hours than you, and don't have as much vacation as you. Also have much more call (infinitely more, since most GPs do 0 call). It's all relative.

[da_birdie]

Chipping in here. GP in Vancouver in 5th year of practice.

The blue book says I billed 200k, while my pre-tax (but post-overhead) income was actually in the 300k range.

 

Not sure what's going on, probably didn't factor in my hospital salary/sessional payments. My uninsured services fees were approx 10% of MSP billings.

 

(my official work hour ~ 42/week, factoring in paperwork ~44/week (I do most paperwork between patients)

[thebouque]

Cardiologists didn't go to the same 'school' as you (family medicine is a different residency from internal medicine + cards subspecialty training for many more years), and work way more hours than you, and don't have as much vacation as you. Also have much more call (infinitely more, since most GPs do 0 call). It's all relative.

 

And ophthalmologists do 0 call.

[Lactic Folly]

And ophthalmologists do 0 call.

 

? They operate at night for ocular trauma, retinal detachments, etc. plus round on inpatients and see urgent outpatients in weekend clinic.

[spontaneouscombustion]

Ophthalmology rarely had inpatients at my centre, and even with a retinal detachment they'd usually get around to it the next the morning unless it occurred early afternoon. And if its macula off, you book them sometime later in the week.

 

Its still a call, but its not particularly grueling.

[leviathan]

Still more call than a GP, which was the point.

[leviathan]

I don't think its that black and white. In particular, rural GPs tend to work some pretty heinous call, especially for O&G.

That's true, but then those GPs usually make a killer amount of money. At least on par with specialists working the same number of hours -300-400k.