geriatricsdoc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Is Uxbridge Ontario rural for NOSM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 A quick google search told me its an hour from Toronto, and has a pop. 20K, so I'm going to hazard a guess an say no..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Med_Pack Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I'd guess the same. It does matter how close it is to major centres so keep what sunnyy said in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 lol thats unfortunate. I wish I was from a real small town like dawson city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Check the Rurality Index of Ontario listing - Uxbridge has a rating pretty close to that of a place like Timmins. I wouldn't assume Uxbridge clearly counts as rural - it is pretty close to major city centres and isn't that small of a town itself - but I wouldn't assume it's not either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I did highschool from uxbridge. I feel like I wont get any advantage :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Med_Pack Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 The issue is that NOSM has its own way and formula of evaluating rurality/remoteness. Based on previous posters if you search through the forums, there have been quite a few instances with the RIO is not indicative of what NOSM's interpretation would be. For example, Thunder Bay has an RIO of 0 but in the admissions session, they mentioned that TBay gives you a score that is likely around the 7 mark out of 10. TBay is quite remote but still considered urban so I mean there just seem to be various markers that they have used to determine residency vs what the measurement for RIO would use. I recall they used the example that some towns in S.O people will call about and ask if it's rural and they mentioned if it's close to Toronto or even the suburbs, it's not going to get much for residency points. Still, it's definitely worth a shot because ultimately nobody on this board is going to know but applying could be worth it. Too early to think about it now though, focus on enjoying the rest of the winter and only worry about it again in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Good point. Its just sad how Uxbridge is not considered rural. The question is why cant NOSM just make people sign an agreement to practice in a rural area to fulfil their mandate. Preferential selection based on where one is raised seems extremely partial to me. I dont think I would wanna apply to this school anymore even though I am from a rural town (maybe not ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 NOSM is looking for more than just rural docs. It was established 10 years ago to help serve the underserved area of Northern and Northwestern Ontario, and thankfully it has been successful in accomplishing that. When I moved there almost 10 years ago, to work at the hospital, I could not find a family physician. But thankfully due to NOSM, there are new family medicine grads and young community surgeons setting up practices across Northern Ontario, and these communities are finally getting served. I'm sorry that fact that NOSM doesn't view Uxbridge as 'rural enough' and that gives you the feels. But it's not about you and your possible admission to Medical School. It's about serving the people of the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Med_Pack Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 If you look at it though in the context of their mandate, and the reason for their existence, it makes sense. Living and growing up in Thunder Bay, I understand it (and I only imagine how much worse it is in rural/remote regions in NO) but if you're not from here, it can be difficult to see how difficult it used to be to get more doctors here because we didn't have a med school so those who did their education in S.O would likely stay there. So many people here simply go without family doctors. Very few people want to move up here if the lifestyle isn't for them. Being raised here or living here for a long time, having ties etc makes it far more likely that we'll retain those people once they graduate. So although I hear your point about preferential selection, a huge reason why the 17th med school in Canada even came to be was to ensure that our shortage was addressed at least to some extent (about 60% I think I read of docs that go to NOSM stay in NO so it's a huge improvement). I know it sucks though for you personally but it's not like you can really do anything about the context score so try not to let it get you down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Good point. Its just sad how Uxbridge is not considered rural. The question is why cant NOSM just make people sign an agreement to practice in a rural area to fulfil their mandate. Preferential selection based on where one is raised seems extremely partial to me. I dont think I would wanna apply to this school anymore even though I am from a rural town (maybe not ) An hour from Toronto is not rural. Plain and simple. Again, I'm sorry this is frustrating to you, but if you were from a northern/truly rural area, you would have a very different perspective on this. The point is to train people who understand the challenges, health related and otherwise, of living in isolated areas. It's about training people who have lived in, and understand why these communities have high levels of unemployment, lack of post-secondary education relative to other areas, and a totally different way of living from southern ON. It's about training people who know what it feels like to drive a loved one to the ER to find that it's closed. Yep, closed. And leaving you 3 hours from the nearest other doctor. These people understand the patients in northern/rural areas, and they are much, much more likely to work there not for a 5 year contract, but for the rest of their lives. And as someone who has NEVER had a family doctor because the one in my (rural) town retired before I was born-and has never been replaced for more than 6 months-I understand this. As do people from the north, and other truly rural areas. There are HUGE problems due to lack of staffing in these areas, and the best way to try and fix this is by training the people with the best chance of staying in these communities forever. And that is the people from such places Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Is Uxbridge Ontario rural for NOSM? It's 28 minutes by car to South Lake hospital. 400 beds. Ontario's 3rd largest cardiac program. Regional cancer centre. Big ICU. Pretty much every surgical specialty except neurosurgery. Hospital CEO is a former astronaut. Nope, not rural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 NOSM is looking for more than just rural docs. It was established 10 years ago to help serve the underserved area of Northern and Northwestern Ontario, and thankfully it has been successful in accomplishing that. When I moved there almost 10 years ago, to work at the hospital, I could not find a family physician. But thankfully due to NOSM, there are new family medicine grads and young community surgeons setting up practices across Northern Ontario, and these communities are finally getting served. I'm sorry that fact that NOSM doesn't view Uxbridge as 'rural enough' and that gives you the feels. But it's not about you and your possible admission to Medical School. It's about serving the people of the North. Thats a good point. Maybe if I was from a real rural community I would appreciate the difficulties etc. To further highlight the doctor shortage, I think there is a real problem in small towns too. Like my friend in Chatham cannot even find a doctor. Its not easy here in Uxbridge either. If I practice in Uxbridge or Chatham I could still help the doctor shortage. If i get the opportunity to study at NOSM, I would stay there for 4 years and perhaps residency (6+ years). I think that should be enough time to understand a community and the specific medical needs. There is a high chance that I would stay there and especially with their mandate I would feel obligated to serve there. The issue is NOSM does not have holistic policies when looking at rural suitability. They just look at your geography which is really not in anyone's control. Just like how I cannot control my ethnicity, skin color or sexual orientation, the place where I was born and raised in Ontario is impossible to change. If one looks at OOP schools (they take students mainly from their province which is fair). But they also take some people from other provinces because it is a Canadian Medical School and every Canadian medical school should full fill their mandate of keeping some seats for Canadians of other provinces. Many of these students stay in these provinces and practice because they do medicine and residency there for almost 6 years (may even start a family here or get married or have friends etc). Why cant NOSM reserve some spots for non rural students who are willing to stay in North and actually willing to explore the place with an open mind? Maybe 1-2 seats should be kept for candidates without any context score. This way they can actually start to be fair to everyone and fullfill their second mandate which is to render equal opportunity to everyone in a country. As a semi rural applicant (maybe this is what I should call myself now) I feel sad because many applicants would get in simply because their context score is higher (factor which I cant control). But again maybe I would feel less strongly about this if I was from goosebay because then I would have a good shot at NOSM and try to defend their selection policies. The idea that being from urban Canada makes you less competent doctor and less likely to practice in North is not very strong. This is mainly because many IMGs practice in the north and they are not even from Canada. These IMGS should be banned and zero spots should be open for them. Instead we should reserve these IMG seats for non rural Canadians who would have to sign ROS agreement to work in the north for 10+ years after doing medicine from NOSM. This way they can fullfill their mandate. I know Newbrunswick does this for Yukon resident applicants (yes they are CMGs who have to practice in Yukon after due to ROS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 NOSM is one school out of 17. You have 16 other schools to choose from. Best of luck to you on your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 NOSM is one school out of 17. You have 16 other schools to choose from. Best of luck to you on your application. Very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Preferential selection based on where one is raised seems extremely partial to me. It is, by definition and by intent, discriminatory. But there is some evidence that it serves the intended purpose. See Kapadia and McGrath, and the references therein: https://www.srpc.ca/PDF/cjrm/vol16n1/pg13.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 If you are truly that passionate about working in northern or rural areas (NOT Uxbridge or any other part of the GTA) there are programs that exist where the government (NS, for one) will pay off your entire student loan OR pay you up to something like a 100K bonus if you sign a contract for 5 or 10 years in a rural NS area. I believe ON has something similar in the north. If offering over 100K isn't enough to appease you, then I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 If you are truly that passionate about working in northern or rural areas (NOT Uxbridge or any other part of the GTA) there are programs that exist where the government (NS, for one) will pay off your entire student loan OR pay you up to something like a 100K bonus if you sign a contract for 5 or 10 years in a rural NS area. I believe ON has something similar in the north. If offering over 100K isn't enough to appease you, then I don't know what is. It is not about money, I feel it is more about being open minded and welcoming. We need better policies to encourage people to practice in the north. Maybe having 1-2 spots for non rural applicants is a good start. We also need to scrap all IMG positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'm a non-rural applicant and I have an interview... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 It is not about money, I feel it is more about being open minded and welcoming. We need better policies to encourage people to practice in the north. Maybe having 1-2 spots for non rural applicants is a good start. We also need to scrap all IMG positions. Well than that's just your opinion. Very fortunate for you that 100K doesn't matter. However most people would consider offering to pay off someone's entire debt as VERY welcoming and encouraging for someone to practice there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurophilic Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 It is not about money, I feel it is more about being open minded and welcoming. We need better policies to encourage people to practice in the north. Maybe having 1-2 spots for non rural applicants is a good start. We also need to scrap all IMG positions. YES!!! The money and resources used for these positions could be used towards increasing Canadian spots, and more specifically, spots for Northern Doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurophilic Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'm a non-rural applicant and I have an interview... Ya but you're part of the Francophone and Aboriginal stream. You do have a significant advantage over all other non-rural who do not fall under these categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Ya but you're part of the Francophone and Aboriginal stream. You do have a significant advantage over all other non-rural who do not fall under these categories. Well I am sure the person who got an invite to NOSM is very qualified and I certainly would not question their intelligence just because they applied from aboriginal/francophone stream. Neuroticdoodle best of luck! The question that I am trying to raise is offering opportunities to non-rural applicants to work in the north. I am also calling for scrapping all IMG positions. We need to empower non rural people to go to the North and offer benefits (money, social benefits and maybe EQUAL opportunity) We should also make sure we respect all applicants even though its easier for them (rural applicants) to get in to NOSM based on their stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurophilic Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Well I am sure the person who got an invite to NOSM is very qualified and I certainly would not question their intelligence just because they applied from aboriginal/francophone stream. Neuroticdoodle best of luck! The question that I am trying to raise is offering opportunities to non-rural applicants to work in the north. I am also calling for scrapping all IMG positions. We need to empower non rural people to go to the North and offer benefits (money, social benefits and maybe EQUAL opportunity) We should also make sure we respect all applicants even though its easier for them (rural applicants) to get in to NOSM based on their stats. By no means did I mean to undermine their intelligence because of what stream they are in. I just wanted to make evident the facts. I am a person who believes that grades and MCAT scores do not necessarily determine whether a person will be a great doctor or not. I'm sure there are many people with incredible grades and scores and yet they do not make good doctors. To me, I believe that how one approaches medicine (i.e. treating people as oppose to treating disease) has a significant contribution to the quality of a physician. Grades are important but they only get you so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricsdoc Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 By no means did I mean to undermine their intelligence because of what stream they are in. I just wanted to make evident the facts. I am a person who believes that grades and MCAT scores do not necessarily determine whether a person will be a great doctor or not. I'm sure there are many people with incredible grades and scores and yet they do not make good doctors. To me, I believe that how one approaches medicine (i.e. treating people as oppose to treating disease) has a significant contribution to the quality of a physician. Grades are important but they only get you so far. I agree with you aswell on this one. However, the facts like you rightfully mentioned is that someone that is from Francophone and Aboriginal stream have a significant advantage over all other non-rural who do not fall under these categories. This is a true fact and you mentioning does not make you look like you are undermining anyone. Facts are just facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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