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[BernieMac]

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[Guest]

There are tons of jobs out there! With a B.Sc, you could work as a research assistant/coordinator (I know people with biology degrees and low GPAs from small universities who work as research assistants in big hospitals). You could work as a physician assistant or receptionist in a clinic. And a lot of jobs simply require a bachelor's degree in any field, for example, you can open your own Kumon branch.

There are a lot of non-mcdonald, fun, jobs available, try something different! Intern in the marketing department of a company! Have fun.

I found that a great way to get hired (even better than having a good GPA and a degree) is to just be an enjoyable person to be around, smile, be positive, show creativity, and a lot of people will take you in even if you have no experience.

 

PS: if your MMI skills lacked, well work on that! One thing that a lot of "life sciences" graduates are not exposed to is the mindset of a healthcare professional, be familiar with canMEDS and stuff and you should be good. I did a year of B.Sc in physiotherapy, and it really changed my perspective on the role of all healthcare professionals. A good doctor not only has a good grasp of medical knowledge to diagnose/treat the patient, but also has the skills to establish a rapport, to support and show the patient different perspectives of a situation during difficult times, a good doctor collaborates with the patient to establish an agenda that fits with the patient's goals and considers psychological factors when creating a treatment plan! Etc. Etc.

[Dr.Heisenberg]

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[robclem21]

So, I have definitely been where you are. In fact, I've been where you are plus about 10 rejections and no interviews. I know exactly how shitty it feels to have no hope and no job prospects, and no clue where you will be in a month, or 6 months, or a year. This process can break you, but it can also build you up into a stronger, more resilient person who at the end of the day, will make a much better medical student and physician (cause those two things can break you as well).

 

What you need to do is use this opportunity to reflect, not to panic. With all the talk about GPA, ECs, interview skills, etc. the most valuable part of this application is experience. This application is a system and you need to learn to master the system. The fact that you already have an interview means that you are well on your way and ahead of most. Figure out the weak parts of your application, and use this time in between to tackle them. Practice your interviews, apply more broadly, and If you really want it then you can do it. It is just a matter of when, and your family and friends will still support you (even more so if you portray how bad you want it).

 

I would also encourage you to allow this experience to humble yourself a little bit. That not everyone who didn't get into med school is a failure or bad person. That people with degrees who need to work in fast food chains to buy time and pay rent aren't failures. And that even though you tried your best, you're not quite there yet. And that's okay. If you reached your potential at 21, then you would never grow. Obstacles are good and they strengthen you, but realize you do have limitations and that humbleness will go a long way down the road when dealing with other people.

 

A good chunk of people here, and my classmates who I have talked to, have applied 2+ times before they got. Its a long journey. Just stay focused and positive. Good luck

[Olaf]

Hey YesIcan, I've been there too! I spent 5 years on a science degree that I loved but can't get me a career. I then spent 3 years doing a MSc that I hated that also can't get me a career that I would like. After 11 total rejections and only 1 interview, I have finally just been accepted to med school!

 

As others have said, there are still good jobs you can get with your BSc that aren't retail/food service! I've worked two research assistant jobs with just a BSc. There are many other types of jobs in the clinical/research field you could get. Check your local job listing websites, the employment section of your local hospitals and research institutions, and contact people at your university (department administrators, professors, lab coordinators, etc) to see if they know of anyone that's looking to hire.

 

The majority of people take more than one try to get into medical school so don't be too down on yourself. It's a long and frustrating journey but if you're committed, you'll get there! Judging by the fact that you got rejected 3 weeks ago, I'm assuming you had at least one interview which is a great first step, even if you got rejected afterwards. There are way more amazing, qualified people who apply than there are spots for so just the fact that you got an interview means that they see potential in you beyond the other applicants and you likely will get an interview again! Don't give up - work on improving your application before the next cycle begins and on improving how you interview! There's lots of good information on these boards that can help you figure out ways to do better at your next interview.

 

Good luck and know that you're not alone in how you feel!

[Meridian]

Yes you Can !

 

Many people on premed101 are feeling the same things you are right now.   1000’s of worthy candidates in fact if you consider the stats.  That still does not make you feel any better I know.    It  took me 3 cycles, 2 MCATs, a Masters, and 21 applications to achieve 3 interviews inside Canada.  One of those interviews turned into an acceptance,  so it can be done.

 

After each cycle,  I felt really shitty for a month.  I would break down into random panic attacks and had many sleepless nights.   You feel the process is not fair.  You see friends and classmates get accepted and you know your CV and stats are better on paper.  You think there is  too much luck and variability involved and maybe it is not worth it anymore.   It does get better.  The trick is to stop over-analyzing and to just move forward.   I did a random summer job for a few months and then travelled for a month on the cheap to clear my head prior to starting a Masters.   I relied a lot on my close friends.

 

In my case the decision to do a Masters was difficult as I had not planned on doing that as a plan B.  At the time it felt like I was doing it because I did not know what else to do.   In the end, the research Masters in a medical field was an amazing opportunity and I learned a lot and grew as a person.  I also used the time to dive into a few long term volunteering ECs.   Again, I started them thinking Med applications, but I chose two things that I truly cared about and have continued them well on into Med School.  Looking back, they were good choices for me.

 

Doing a fifth year,  traveling,  starting a 1 or 2 year Masters, applying to research / lab-tech jobs at your University or hospitals or in related industries (the jobs are there) are all potential options.

 

You got the Calgary interview, so you know you are competitive to that stage and can be again next cycle.     You may however want to broaden your scope and apply wider including Ontario schools.  It takes considerable effort, but you want to open up as many potential interviews as you possibly can.

[GH0ST]

I am making this post to just vent, I didn't know this is how it would feel like, didn't know I would be this sad....it has been over three weeks since I got the rejection email and I thought things were getting better but today it hit me. I feel like puking. It feels like I wasted four years of my life doing a useless life science degree. I can't find a job anywhere. I am literally going to have to resort to McDonald's. I went to McDonald's today and was thinking of asking for an application, but knowing how much of a failure I am I will get rejected there as well. All those years of laughing at the stereotype of a science grad working at fast food upon graduation might be me. All those late nights studying, those wasted weekends stuck in my room while everyone was out having a good time mean nothing now....I am willing to apply until I get in, but I feel like I disappointed my family, friends, loved ones, everyone. Everyone supported me so much, now I feel so many people doubt me. I want this to get better. 

 

First off I do wish you the best. Having been rejected before I understand the pangs of disappointment and the emptiness that is your companion. 

 

That said, I am concerned about your prejudiced view of BSc degrees. I recall many of your posts during the 2016-2017 application cycle about a potential MSc degree (I'm assuming you didn't end up doing that). Even in those threads, you mentioned how "useless" BSc degrees are and pretty much can only do research. Furthermore, the fact that you're talking about laughing at those stereotypes and somehow becoming that statistic (which is debatable), shows that you still look down on a BSc degree (and have repeatedly done so many times). 

 

There are so many opportunities with a BSc, and while I agree that many other outside jobs do require masters degrees... there are many that work in industry, or do applied work in their fields (ex. psychology degree moving to do social work or clinical psychology etc...).

 

Whether you apply to med or not, the biggest thing that can help you is to keep an open mind. You are more than your degree, just like how your degree is more than you think. Use the time for reflection and look for self-improvement. While doing these things, think about how you could continue living your life, what plan B may look like, and a new game plan for your future application cycles (if you are going down that path again).

 

- G 

[gradschooldream]

I am making this post to just vent, I didn't know this is how it would feel like, didn't know I would be this sad....it has been over three weeks since I got the rejection email and I thought things were getting better but today it hit me. I feel like puking. It feels like I wasted four years of my life doing a useless life science degree. I can't find a job anywhere. I am literally going to have to resort to McDonald's. I went to McDonald's today and was thinking of asking for an application, but knowing how much of a failure I am I will get rejected there as well. All those years of laughing at the stereotype of a science grad working at fast food upon graduation might be me. All those late nights studying, those wasted weekends stuck in my room while everyone was out having a good time mean nothing now....I am willing to apply until I get in, but I feel like I disappointed my family, friends, loved ones, everyone. Everyone supported me so much, now I feel so many people doubt me. I want this to get better. 

 

 

I feel that the biggest battle that you will have to deal with is a battle in your mind.

 

Few months ago, you were saying that it was quite easy to get in once you get an interview as you have 50 percent chance, so why not think in that same manner??

[GH0ST]

I feel that the biggest battle that you will have to deal with is a battle in your mind.

 

Few months ago, you were saying that it was quite easy to get in once you get an interview as you have 50 percent chance, so why not think in that same manner??

 

Honestly I remembered that post a while back.... honestly it seemed a bit arrogant to say. 

 

It's the OP's perception of things that's really holding him back.

 

- G

[Haribo7173]

Yes, you can.

[BernieMac]

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[RichardDegrasseSagan]

All those years of laughing at the stereotype of a science grad working at fast food upon graduation might be me. All those late nights studying, those wasted weekends stuck in my room while everyone was out having a good time mean nothing now....I am willing to apply until I get in, but I feel like I disappointed my family, friends, loved ones, everyone. Everyone supported me so much, now I feel so many people doubt me. I want this to get better. 

 

1) Everyone who's supported you doesn't care about an acceptance. All they want to see from you is for you to be happy. I think everyone has these concerns - being scared to tell your loved ones about being rejected because you don't want to let them down. The fact of the matter is, they DON'T CARE. They just want to continue supporting you.

 

2) You know, there is also a stereotype of the typical pre-med who looks down on science grads forced into blue/pink collar jobs. If I was an adcom and got even a hint of that type of mentality, I wouldn't be too pleased. It just screams "immature" to me. Rejections are tough. But you're out of school now, and I think this is an opportunity to catch up on a lot of growing you may have missed out on because of studying. Some of the most valuable lessons I learned in life were while working blue/pink  collar jobs early in my undergrad. And it's not very conducive to being an empathetic physician to look down on a large portion of the population that work these jobs. 

 

You're doing well professionally. You're definitely going to get there. But just make sure you are actively seeking to grow as a person while you're at it. Good luck friend! 

[GH0ST]

1) Everyone who's supported you doesn't care about an acceptance. All they want to see from you is for you to be happy. I think everyone has these concerns - being scared to tell your loved ones about being rejected because you don't want to let them down. The fact of the matter is, they DON'T CARE. They just want to continue supporting you.

 

2) You know, there is also a stereotype of the typical pre-med who looks down on science grads forced into blue/pink collar jobs. If I was an adcom and got even a hint of that type of mentality, I wouldn't be too pleased. It just screams "immature" to me. Rejections are tough. But you're out of school now, and I think this is an opportunity to catch up on a lot of growing you may have missed out on because of studying. Some of the most valuable lessons I learned in life were while working blue/pink collar jobs early in my undergrad. And it's not very conducive to being an empathetic physician to look down on a large portion of the population that work these jobs. 

 

Ding ding ding

 

- G

[jeff123]

What's wrong with this? 

Would you rather work at McDonald's after graduation? It's literately the most "lowly" job out there for a university grad. You don't go to university to work at McDonald's. Period. 

This whole "looking down" at blue/pink collar mentality jobs is exactly what premeds need to worker harder. The fear of working a "lowly job" after graduation is very real, and a fairly necessary component of premed life. 

The argument that working blue/pink collar jobs yield "most valuable lessons" screams utter BS to me. You know, this is a stereotype of the typical premed who tries to look relatable during the interviews. I've worked at a fast food restaurant in high school and I learned literately nothing. It one of the most demeaning experiences of my life. 

OP, use this as a negative anchor to try harder next time. You don't want to work at a pathetic job, and there's nothing wrong with it. Follow through your ambitions, and you may reap the rewards. 

 

On 5/30/2017 at 1:13 AM, RichardDegrasseSagan said:

 

1) Everyone who's supported you doesn't care about an acceptance. All they want to see from you is for you to be happy. I think everyone has these concerns - being scared to tell your loved ones about being rejected because you don't want to let them down. The fact of the matter is, they DON'T CARE. They just want to continue supporting you.

 

2) You know, there is also a stereotype of the typical pre-med who looks down on science grads forced into blue/pink collar jobs. If I was an adcom and got even a hint of that type of mentality, I wouldn't be too pleased. It just screams "immature" to me. Rejections are tough. But you're out of school now, and I think this is an opportunity to catch up on a lot of growing you may have missed out on because of studying. Some of the most valuable lessons I learned in life were while working blue/pink  collar jobs early in my undergrad. And it's not very conducive to being an empathetic physician to look down on a large portion of the population that work these jobs. 

 

You're doing well professionally. You're definitely going to get there. But just make sure you are actively seeking to grow as a person while you're at it. Good luck friend! 

 

[MarsRover]

On 5/29/2017 at 1:59 AM, YesIcan55 said:

I am making this post to just vent, I didn't know this is how it would feel like, didn't know I would be this sad....it has been over three weeks since I got the rejection email and I thought things were getting better but today it hit me. I feel like puking. It feels like I wasted four years of my life doing a useless life science degree. I can't find a job anywhere. I am literally going to have to resort to McDonald's. I went to McDonald's today and was thinking of asking for an application, but knowing how much of a failure I am I will get rejected there as well. All those years of laughing at the stereotype of a science grad working at fast food upon graduation might be me. All those late nights studying, those wasted weekends stuck in my room while everyone was out having a good time mean nothing now....I am willing to apply until I get in, but I feel like I disappointed my family, friends, loved ones, everyone. Everyone supported me so much, now I feel so many people doubt me. I want this to get better. 

I would focus on maturing over the next year. Perhaps you are just a little dramatic in your writing, but really? You likely have a good gpa and extra-curriculars but you think you are too much of a failure to apply for an entry level job? Also the fact that you spent years laughing at people who are working at a lower-income job to make ends meet is kind of sad. Seriously the social determinants of health are a huge deal in health care, and prejudice like that can show through. Also mentioning the social determinants of health was necessary in my MMI. Maybe you should read into that. 

14 minutes ago, jeff123 said:

What's wrong with this? 

Would you rather work at McDonald's after graduation? It's literately the most "lowly" job out there for a university grad. You don't go to university to work at McDonald's. Period. 

This whole "looking down" at blue/pink collar mentality jobs is exactly what premeds need to worker harder. The fear of working a "lowly job" after graduation is very real, and a fairly necessary component of premed life. 

The argument that working blue/pink collar jobs yield "most valuable lessons" screams utter BS to me. You know, this is a stereotype of the typical premed who tries to look relatable during the interviews. I've worked at a fast food restaurant in high school and I learned literately nothing. It one of the most demeaning experiences of my life. 

OP, use this as a negative anchor to try harder next time. You don't want to work at a pathetic job, and there's nothing wrong with it. Follow through your ambitions, and you may reap the rewards. 

 

 

 I don't think that screams premed trying to look relatable at all. It shows this is someone who doesn't think that med is some how some kind of elitist group. That somehow everyone else that didn't manage to get in is somehow less than us. At the end of the day medicine is a job and it is highly paid. That gives us no right to "laugh" at people who have jobs that are less competitive or highly paid. As though somehow their jobs are not important. We need all jobs to make society run. Both your and the original posters message about laughing at people who work blue collar (or pathetic as you say) jobs just screams someone coming from an extremely privileged background. 

As i already mentioned almost all of your patients will be from backgrounds with these "pathetic" jobs. So honestly if you hold yourself so much higher and better than them, there is a very real chance that attitude will come off to your patients. This will affect the quality of care, and means you will be subpar. I do see this attitude a fair bit in medical school, but luckily many students lose this pompous attitude as they get beat down by attendings for being arrogant. 

Also when you look at society in general there are only so many blue collar and white collar jobs. These jobs need filling, all the attitude of white being better than blue does is lead to insane competition, and people self-judging themselves. Why not instead encourage people to do what they love. There are many science grads that chose not to go into the health care field for a large variety of reasons that have nothing to do with being inferior. I personally even think that the distribution of pay in the health care system should be changed so that physicians don't get paid as much. Hell maybe we would even see less people only going in it for the prestige and money. 

 

Sorry to go off on you, but you caught me on a bad night - and i am tired of hearing and reading these kind of attitudes. Gives medicine a bad reputation. 

[jeff123]

3 minutes ago, MarsRover said:

I would focus on maturing over the next year. Perhaps you are just a little dramatic in your writing, but really? You likely have a good gpa and extra-curriculars but you think you are too much of a failure to apply for an entry level job? Also the fact that you spent years laughing at people who are working at a lower-income job to make ends meet is kind of sad. Seriously the social determinants of health are a huge deal in health care, and prejudice like that can show through. Also mentioning the social determinants of health was necessary in my MMI. Maybe you should read into that. 

 I don't think that screams premed trying to look relatable at all. It shows this is someone who doesn't think that med is some how some kind of elitist group. That somehow everyone else that didn't manage to get in is somehow less than us. At the end of the day medicine is a job and it is highly paid. That gives us no right to "laugh" at people who have jobs that are less competitive or highly paid. As though somehow their jobs are not important. We need all jobs to make society run. Both your and the original posters message about laughing at people who work blue collar (or pathetic as you say) jobs just screams someone coming from an extremely privileged background. 

As i already mentioned almost all of your patients will be from backgrounds with these "pathetic" jobs. So honestly if you hold yourself so much higher and better than them, there is a very real chance that attitude will come off to your patients. This will affect the quality of care, and means you will be subpar. I do see this attitude a fair bit in medical school, but luckily many students lose this pompous attitude as they get beat down by attendings for being arrogant. 

Also when you look at society in general there are only so many blue collar and white collar jobs. These jobs need filling, all the attitude of white being better than blue does is lead to insane competition, and people self-judging themselves. Why not instead encourage people to do what they love. There are many science grads that chose not to go into the health care field for a large variety of reasons that have nothing to do with being inferior. I personally even think that the distribution of pay in the health care system should be changed so that physicians don't get paid as much. Hell maybe we would even see less people only going in it for the prestige and money. 

 

Sorry to go off on you, but you caught me on a bad night - and i am tired of hearing and reading these kind of attitudes. Gives medicine a bad reputation. 

There's nothing wrong with this. I'm also quite sick and tired of people berating premeds who are in it just for the prestige and money. It's a perfectly viable purpose, and people have no right to look down upon it. If that's their dream, why discourage them? 

And no, I do not come from an "extremely privileged" background. It's the exact opposite. And that is why I've fought tooth and nail to get into medical school. 

You mentioned the possibility of having a "pompous attitude" with patients. I think everyone would agree that this is far-fetched. 

You don't think it's a failure to work at McDonald's after spending 4 years of undergrad with the goal of getting into medical school? What exactly is your definition of failure then? This is self-deception at its finest - OP had a goal in mind, and he failed. He'll work harder when he applies next time, but working at McDonald's is by no means a success by any stretch of the imagination. 

[RichardDegrasseSagan]

1 hour ago, jeff123 said:

There's nothing wrong with this. I'm also quite sick and tired of people berating premeds who are in it just for the prestige and money. It's a perfectly viable purpose, and people have no right to look down upon it. If that's their dream, why discourage them? 

And no, I do not come from an "extremely privileged" background. It's the exact opposite. And that is why I've fought tooth and nail to get into medical school. 

You mentioned the possibility of having a "pompous attitude" with patients. I think everyone would agree that this is far-fetched. 

You don't think it's a failure to work at McDonald's after spending 4 years of undergrad with the goal of getting into medical school? What exactly is your definition of failure then? This is self-deception at its finest - OP had a goal in mind, and he failed. He'll work harder when he applies next time, but working at McDonald's is by no means a success by any stretch of the imagination. 

Thankfully, due to the surplus of excellent academic candidates, they can (or do their best to) weed out those candidates who are only in it for the money/prestige. Being a physician is a service-oriented profession, and I am glad they disqualify candidates who don't understand/or relate to the social determinants of health, education, and resources. These are candidates who are likely unable to demonstrate the characteristics required to be a successful physician.

Also, I did not say university graduates should be happy with a McDonald's job. Way to misconstrue my words. I said you shouldn't look down on those who are forced into those jobs when they had entered university with other goals in mind. It's just where their life's journey took them, and there's nothing wrong with that. They have the opportunity keep pursuing alternatives. Nor should you look down on someone who will be working these jobs for the rest of their lives.

For someone who claims you have undergone hardships, you seem very apathetic to them.

[mew]

1 hour ago, jeff123 said:

There's nothing wrong with this. I'm also quite sick and tired of people berating premeds who are in it just for the prestige and money. It's a perfectly viable purpose, and people have no right to look down upon it. If that's their dream, why discourage them? 

And no, I do not come from an "extremely privileged" background. It's the exact opposite. And that is why I've fought tooth and nail to get into medical school. 

You mentioned the possibility of having a "pompous attitude" with patients. I think everyone would agree that this is far-fetched. 

You don't think it's a failure to work at McDonald's after spending 4 years of undergrad with the goal of getting into medical school? What exactly is your definition of failure then? This is self-deception at its finest - OP had a goal in mind, and he failed. He'll work harder when he applies next time, but working at McDonald's is by no means a success by any stretch of the imagination. 

1

1

Yes, OP did not succeed in getting into medical school this year, but that doesn't make him a failure. As for working at McDonald's: putting in an honest day's work to make ends meet, at least in my book, hardly makes someone a failure. 

When OP does get in- and he most likely will, given that he already has an application strong enough to get him interviews at Calgary- it'll be due to his hard work, self-reflection, and self-improvement. Many applicants take multiple tries to get in and go on to become excellent physicians, no different than applicants accepted on their first try. 

 

 

[robclem21]

There is a lot of misconstruing going on this thread and words being taken out of context on both sides. However, I agree with a lot of points made by everyone.

1) Yes. It is not ideal to work at a fast food chain following 4 years of undergrad, and obviously nobody enters their degree with that goal in mind. Does that make the OP successful, no, but does it make them a failure? Also no. Everyone has their own path and although they were not successful this time, it seems unfair to call someone a failure while in the middle of their journey. Furthermore, nobody has the right to look down at anyone else for the job they do. You can't go through life categorizing and judging people based on the job they do and using that as a rationale for how you look at or treat people. I am not saying anyone here would do that, but the idea that certain jobs are "pathetic" is not far removed from that path and certainly conducive to being a compassionate person and physician. 

2) There are a lot of people in my program and who apply (based on applications I read this year) that have a lot of growing up to do. There is nothing wrong with having to take a path you weren't expecting into medicine. Maybe some people have shit experience working in retail or fast food, but whether you realize or not, there were things you learned from it (maybe not hard skills, but maybe you have a new appreciation for how you should treat people who work those jobs). That in itself is something valuable. More "premeds" need to adopt an understanding view of how the world actually works, because things don't always go your way and the blinders of undergrad will eventually come off to a world where you don't always succeed and get what you want. 

3) Lastly, I also don't think it is wrong that people choose to pursue medicine for prestige and salary. Some people grow up with nothing and would love nothing more than the opportunity to provide for their family and give their parents, spouse, children a good life. That is respectable in my opinion. Should it be the ONLY reason....probably not because there are certainly easier ways to make money, but I don't think that prevents someone from being a good doctor.

Anyway, my two cents.. take it for what its worth.

 

[MarsRover]

13 hours ago, jeff123 said:

There's nothing wrong with this. I'm also quite sick and tired of people berating premeds who are in it just for the prestige and money. It's a perfectly viable purpose, and people have no right to look down upon it. If that's their dream, why discourage them? 

And no, I do not come from an "extremely privileged" background. It's the exact opposite. And that is why I've fought tooth and nail to get into medical school. 

You mentioned the possibility of having a "pompous attitude" with patients. I think everyone would agree that this is far-fetched. 

You don't think it's a failure to work at McDonald's after spending 4 years of undergrad with the goal of getting into medical school? What exactly is your definition of failure then? This is self-deception at its finest - OP had a goal in mind, and he failed. He'll work harder when he applies next time, but working at McDonald's is by no means a success by any stretch of the imagination. 

I honestly don't see it as being that far-fetched. I realize I was being a little dramatic last night, struck a nerve and long days studying. That said I still find it rather sad that you describe blue collar jobs at pathetic. Maybe you meant just entry level jobs like McDonalds are, and that the rest of blue collar jobs aren't pathetic but still lowly and to be looked down on. I do have to ask though if you come from an unprivileged background do you really think of your family as being lowly and pathetic? What about all of your future non-physician colleagues? Ie any of the many techs, LPN, PCA, etc? Everyone has a job that is necessary to for the health care team none of them are pathetic, and the same can be said for society as a whole. Would you like having to manually take your garbage to the dump every week, and sort it? I think not. 

 

Now I agree I do feel bad for the OP it sucks not getting in when that is all you hoped for. In fact I even understand how they probably meant no harm by their post and just letting out steam. I certainly let out a lot of anger when I didn't get into my first school. I was just making a point that one should not have spent years laughing at those who didn't go for jobs like medicine. If the post was asking for advice or help more than just talking about how they are a failure I would've offered more advice. 

I do maintain that if you think your patients have jobs that are lowly or beneath you that it will show. 

[jeff123]

15 hours ago, robclem21 said:

There is a lot of misconstruing going on this thread and words being taken out of context on both sides. However, I agree with a lot of points made by everyone.

1) Yes. It is not ideal to work at a fast food chain following 4 years of undergrad, and obviously nobody enters their degree with that goal in mind. Does that make the OP successful, no, but does it make them a failure? Also no. Everyone has their own path and although they were not successful this time, it seems unfair to call someone a failure while in the middle of their journey. Furthermore, nobody has the right to look down at anyone else for the job they do. You can't go through life categorizing and judging people based on the job they do and using that as a rationale for how you look at or treat people. I am not saying anyone here would do that, but the idea that certain jobs are "pathetic" is not far removed from that path and certainly conducive to being a compassionate person and physician. 

2) There are a lot of people in my program and who apply (based on applications I read this year) that have a lot of growing up to do. There is nothing wrong with having to take a path you weren't expecting into medicine. Maybe some people have shit experience working in retail or fast food, but whether you realize or not, there were things you learned from it (maybe not hard skills, but maybe you have a new appreciation for how you should treat people who work those jobs). That in itself is something valuable. More "premeds" need to adopt an understanding view of how the world actually works, because things don't always go your way and the blinders of undergrad will eventually come off to a world where you don't always succeed and get what you want. 

3) Lastly, I also don't think it is wrong that people choose to pursue medicine for prestige and salary. Some people grow up with nothing and would love nothing more than the opportunity to provide for their family and give their parents, spouse, children a good life. That is respectable in my opinion. Should it be the ONLY reason....probably not because there are certainly easier ways to make money, but I don't think that prevents someone from being a good doctor.

Anyway, my two cents.. take it for what its worth.

 

You make some good points. But how would you define "failure" then? It seems like the word loses its meaning when you construe every negative experience in some kind of a positive light. 

[robclem21]

8 hours ago, jeff123 said:

You make some good points. But how would you define "failure" then? It seems like the word loses its meaning when you construe every negative experience in some kind of a positive light. 

Why the need to term someone a "failure" at all. I don't think its anyone's right to ever judge someone else and call them a failure and you make it seem like seeing negative experiences in a positive light is a bad thing. Sometimes it can be helpful and motivating when you don't achieve what you want. As in you"failed". But if you can't see the positive in a failure and take something good from it, then you will continue to spiral into a negative outcome and never improve. Just because someone fails, doesn't make them a failure. In my eyes the only way you can even become close to a failure is if you give up when you shouldn't have.

[MarsRover]

1 hour ago, robclem21 said:

Why the need to term someone a "failure" at all. I don't think its anyone's right to ever judge someone else and call them a failure and you make it seem like seeing negative experiences in a positive light is a bad thing. Sometimes it can be helpful and motivating when you don't achieve what you want. As in you"failed". But if you can't see the positive in a failure and take something good from it, then you will continue to spiral into a negative outcome and never improve. Just because someone fails, doesn't make them a failure. In my eyes the only way you can even become close to a failure is if you give up when you shouldn't have.

 A lot of truth in those words. In my mind the only real measure of success is happiness. If you are happy with your life and the decisions you are making you are a success. If you pursue things and do things that aren't making you personally happy, you are failing yourself. That does not necessarily make you a failure, just at that moment you are denying yourself what could be. 

[HiHopes]

Let's keep the debate moderated and show sportsmanship on both sides, please. No need to berate pre-med this or pre-med that.

 

YesICan55, I think everyone understands and fears going through what you are going through again. I personally think that you can have your reservations about working jobs with fewer qualifications that you have achieved because those are not jobs that you wanted to settle for. At the same time, however, I guarantee to you that you will find some of the most hard-working and humble people at fast food chains, restaurants and similar jobs. People who don't have the privilege to aspire to reach the clouds. Ultimately, then, I do agree that if you ever end up working at, say, McDo, life can give you a lot to learn. I'm saying this because I have had this feeling before, but I had to shake it out of me just as some other people have mentioned. these jobs are jobs like any other, people live off of them and they are people like you. It's hugely unfair and badly defining of a pre-med's character to look down on the general population because, hey, guess what, you are pretty much expected to be understanding and compassionate. It's totally alright for you to aspire to higher undertakings, don't get me wrong, and you are doing right by yourself to keep trying. However, if you find yourself having to work for a living wherever before med (I get a feeling you would perhaps be unhappy everywhere but in med right now, as I thought I would be when I imagined futures where I didn't get in), keep your chin up, find things you love outside med (creative things, exercise-based things, whatever), and keep focusing on being a better human. There's some great humanity out there in restaurants, and some great lessons you can learn too.

[MacGrad19]

On 5/29/2017 at 0:29 AM, YesIcan55 said:

I am making this post to just vent, I didn't know this is how it would feel like, didn't know I would be this sad....it has been over three weeks since I got the rejection email and I thought things were getting better but today it hit me. I feel like puking. It feels like I wasted four years of my life doing a useless life science degree. I can't find a job anywhere. I am literally going to have to resort to McDonald's. I went to McDonald's today and was thinking of asking for an application, but knowing how much of a failure I am I will get rejected there as well. All those years of laughing at the stereotype of a science grad working at fast food upon graduation might be me. All those late nights studying, those wasted weekends stuck in my room while everyone was out having a good time mean nothing now....I am willing to apply until I get in, but I feel like I disappointed my family, friends, loved ones, everyone. Everyone supported me so much, now I feel so many people doubt me. I want this to get better. 

Hi YesIcan55, 

Just wanted to share a bit of my story with you. I also spent years (not 4, but 5) studying science too. My goal was to do a professional degree as well. But, I ended up getting rejected from the schools I applied to. I worked pink collar jobs for about a year, but didn't enjoy it. Nevertheless, I treated customers with respect and co-workers, too. At first, I kind of did look down on people who worked these jobs for years on end. But, I realized how much more respectable it is to be a hard-working person, making an honest living to support your family than just leeching off government money or doing crimes. Most of these people wanted more, but life got in the way, kids came along and they had bills to pay etc.

Anyway, I figured since I'm still young I should do something about my situation. I decided to go after my lifelong passion (one that people often think isn't stable) and ended up doing pretty well. I'm now even happier than I would have been had I gotten into the program I wanted to right away. The whole experience taught me that sometimes, life really does work out a certain way for a reason (I know it sounds cliche, but it's true). At first, I also feared my parents would be disappointed but honestly, they probably were just more worried about if I would be happy and find a career. 

Now, I am attempting again to get into healthcare (currently on a waitlist, so fingers crossed). I'm doing it because 1) my parents sacrificed a lot for me to study for 5 years and I don't want it to go to waste 2) it's good to have two careers and I know in the long run, it's a logical decision 3) I also genuinely want to help others and enjoy science, of course. I wouldn't have done it for 5 years if I didn't.

Hope this helps to give you some more hope. I also agree with what robclem21 said.