Unemployed Physicians

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Ralk, what do you think a middle class income is? Residents make a middle class income. Physicians, even FM, are in a whole new ball game. I hope that nobody here equates being underpaid and underemployed to being poor and chronically unemployed.

I completely agree with you, my family lived off a resident's salary and we were not 'poor' by realistic measures, although I apparently fall into that category compared to most medical students. 

 

The only difference is, is that making multi-thousand dollar a month loan payments on a 50K salary is a lot different than just living on a 50K salary. For people who self-fund undergrad+med school....the idea of no good salary to pay off 150-200K in loans is downright terrifying. 

[lcs.tmng]

I do know that orthopedic surgery is probably the most affected specialty when it comes to underemployment so while we're on the subject, I had a few quick questions for you guys:

 

1) Do you think the job market will get better in the next 10-12 years (once I'm done with med school, residency, fellowship, etc.) or will it probably stay that bad for a while?

 

2) Would an orthopedic surgeon with a master's degree and 1-2 fellowships (basically what I'd be willing to do) still have a lot of trouble finding a job? How about in an academic center?

 

3) Is the situation any different in Quebec or the US?

 

Thanks!

3) On a side note to employment, compensation tends to fluctuate. 10 years ago Quebec doctors were ransoming taxpayers and threatening to leave the province and practice in Ontario, today Ontario doctors are threatening to leave and practice in Quebec. You will most likely make a lot more in the US.

 

 

I completely agree with you, my family lived off a resident's salary and we were not 'poor' by realistic measures, although I apparently fall into that category compared to most medical students. 

 

The only difference is, is that making multi-thousand dollar a month loan payments on a 50K salary is a lot different than just living on a 50K salary. For people who self-fund undergrad+med school....the idea of no good salary to pay off 150-200K in loans is downright terrifying. 

I 100% agree, I don't want to understate the debt incurred when pursuing a liberal profession like law, dentistry, architecture and particularly medicine, even though when all things equal, a vast majority of Canadian households (lower, middle or upper class) also live with varying weight of substantial debt.

[Snowmen]

3) On a side note to employment, compensation tends to fluctuate. 10 years ago Quebec doctors were ransoming taxpayers and threatening to leave the province and practice in Ontario, today Ontario doctors are threatening to leave and practice in Quebec. You will most likely make a lot more in the US.

 

I wasn't asking in regards to compensation which will be very nice regarldless of the state or province for an orthopedic surgeon. Rather, I was wondering about the job prospects for orthopedic surgeons in Quebec and the United-States since the US are completely separate while Quebec (my home province) tends to be a separate system, owing to the language barrier.

 

Anyhow, thank you for you're insight!

[rmorelan]

I agree, that was meant to be my point - at worst, underemployed physicians are usually earning a fellow's salary, which is slightly above what residents make, giving them a middle class income or better.

 

close I would say - when I do the math with average loan payments, and CMPA fees, tuition fees etc etc - things are are required to be a fellow but not of course typical of most middle class people (which I will define as having the median household income for Canada) - it is a bit less than middle class income. Coupled with I suppose that most fellowships are in expense cities as well and you have another factor at play.

 

If there is a spouse involved holding a job than it very likely is above average

[ralk]

close I would say - when I do the math with average loan payments, and CMPA fees, tuition fees etc etc - things are are required to be a fellow but not of course typical of most middle class people (which I will define as having the median household income for Canada) - it is a bit less than middle class income. Coupled with I suppose that most fellowships are in expense cities as well and you have another factor at play.

 

If there is a spouse involved holding a job than it very likely is above average

Well, median household income really isn't the definition of middle class, not even close. There's a reasonably wide range above or below that value that's considered middle class. Even with a ton of fees, there's no way a fellow's salary takes them below a middle class income. Maybe below the median household income (and I'm skeptical on that front too, given senior resident salaries), but still very much a middle class salary.

[NLengr]

Well, median household income really isn't the definition of middle class, not even close. There's a reasonably wide range above or below that value that's considered middle class. Even with a ton of fees, there's no way a fellow's salary takes them below a middle class income. Maybe below the median household income (and I'm skeptical on that front too, given senior resident salaries), but still very much a middle class salary.

 

It's highly dependent on how the fellow is paid. Not all fellows are part of the residents associations like medicine fellows are so you can't assume they will be making more than a senior resident.