radmanjohn Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I thought I would start a new a new topic for the docs and docs to be... The dreaded prenup word.... Having been there done that I will offer some advise,,,for those budding docs out there.... Get one and protect yourself. You have entered a profession which falls prey to many divorces and divorce lawyers...and you will lose, and I mean lose. Your spouse or ex will win, your medical education (if you get married before your finish will be assigned a value...maybe 1/2 million...)..If you are going to marry another professional of similar income, no problem... but otherwise....look out...as u may soon learn there are a lot of gold diggers out there....My advise, is have a prenup and secure your future... without it you have secured your partners... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamer Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Man I totally agree but seriously, how the **** do you bring that kind of **** up to your future spouse, especially if their career isn't nearly as financially stable as yours. "Baby, I love you, but in case that changes, will you please sign an agreement saying you won't take all my money?" I'm 100% sure I want a prenup considering todays divorce rates, but there's no better way to ruin a marriage before it starts than saying "prenup please!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckman Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I totally agree. Although, I can spot a gold digger from a mile away, but you never know what happens. It's always better to be safe than sorry. Given the fact that I've always been attracted to women that are not crazy high-achievers (just my taste), I probably won't marry someone with close to my income. That means I have to be careful...which is very hard when you're head over heals... - Zuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radmanjohn Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Man I totally agree but seriously, how the **** do you bring that kind of **** up to your future spouse, especially if their career isn't nearly as financially stable as yours. "Baby, I love you, but in case that changes, will you please sign an agreement saying you won't take all my money?" I'm 100% sure I want a prenup considering todays divorce rates, but there's no better way to ruin a marriage before it starts than saying "prenup please!" Well my friends it is easy....I am a doctor, worked hard to get to where I am and continually work hard (60 hrs or more every week)...Remember it is you that did those 100 hr work weeks to get you through residency, and meds...My ex wife,,,"retired at age 34"...she didnt work much..she was lazy..and guys I got married in Med school... so the 700K in equity I built up became hers....she retired... basically took 100% and I started from scratch again.....So I have no problem even on date #1 to mention the word, so there is never any surprises.... A buddy of mine just got divorced after 20 years, she doesnt work and now (he is a respirologist) earns less than she does, and that will be for ever..since she is 42 and married for 20 years, btw she is now dating her lawyer...but will never marry again (she would lose he support).... PRENUP would have prevented this..I see it in many of my colleagues!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Man I totally agree but seriously, how the **** do you bring that kind of **** up to your future spouse, especially if their career isn't nearly as financially stable as yours. "Baby, I love you, but in case that changes, will you please sign an agreement saying you won't take all my money?" I'm 100% sure I want a prenup considering todays divorce rates, but there's no better way to ruin a marriage before it starts than saying "prenup please!" I dunno, man...I don't see it being that hard to raise. Yeah, it's unpleasant, but I don't think it's that much more unpleasant than, say, the dreaded "kids" conversation. I would totally understand if a fiance who was significantly more well-off than me raised this subject - yeah, it would be great if he didn't, but I wouldn't be too upset if he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpanishFly Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Well my friends it is easy....I am a doctor, worked hard to get to where I am and continually work hard (60 hrs or more every week)...Remember it is you that did those 100 hr work weeks to get you through residency, and meds...My ex wife,,,"retired at age 34"...she didnt work much..she was lazy..and guys I got married in Med school... so the 700K in equity I built up became hers....she retired... basically took 100% and I started from scratch again.....So I have no problem even on date #1 to mention the word, so there is never any surprises.... A buddy of mine just got divorced after 20 years, she doesnt work and now (he is a respirologist) earns less than she does, and that will be for ever..since she is 42 and married for 20 years, btw she is now dating her lawyer...but will never marry again (she would lose he support).... PRENUP would have prevented this..I see it in many of my colleagues!!!!!!! man that sucks a LOT. I for one would never be able to take half of someones hard earned money let alone ALL of it (unless for instance I had to give up my career to say take care of kids, in which case the circumstances are different)...but still, maybe its because I'm going to be a professional who works for their money, I still can't fathom doing that to someone I supposedly once loved. Did you guys have any kids together? Edit: unless the bastard cheated on me, in which case all's fair in love and war haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radmanjohn Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 man that sucks a LOT. I for one would never be able to take half of someones hard earned money let alone ALL of it (unless for instance I had to give up my career to say take care of kids, in which case the circumstances are different)...but still, maybe its because I'm going to be a professional who works for their money, I still can't fathom doing that to someone I supposedly once loved. Did you guys have any kids together? Edit: unless the bastard cheated on me, in which case all's fair in love and war haha. lol...In Canada it is always no fault divorce....I know in two cases the women were the ones cheating, and they got the kids, and the cash..and the new guys..the slave doctor, got the spousal, child support, lost his house..but still works the 60-70 hr work weeks, while the ex wife volunteers in the hspt 2 days a week....I will tell you right now, in Divorce, and especially doctor divorces, the doctor loses.. and loses big time...Divorce is not supposed to be fair...this is Canada....btw, I am still great friends with my ex...we have 2 kids together, and I got custody (she doesnt pay support)..she just got all the money, spousal support..and retirement...My advise to my daughter..(age 15..is to marry for money...the first time..then get divorced..and live the good life...well it worked for my ex....I am not bitter,...but my friends this is reality in Canada with no prenup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why are you getting married, none of that $hit is going to happen if you don't put a knee down, but that's easy to say of course. I don't know if a prenup is actually legal in Canada, is it under common law? I mean here in Qc, there are a couple of ways to split the $, and anything that was earned post-wedding, is split 50/50, generally. So, if you have something pre-wedding, make sure it stays in a different account. I'm dating a lawyer, and I actually never discussed income, but something tells me that she wants to get married some day (something = her) and unfortunately, I will lose big if we split...dunno if I want to take the plunge. In my case, I will arm myself with an objective lawyer... noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDMed Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why are you getting married, none of that $hit is going to happen if you don't put a knee down, but that's easy to say of course. I don't know if a prenup is actually legal in Canada, is it under common law? I mean here in Qc, there are a couple of ways to split the $, and anything that was earned post-wedding, is split 50/50, generally. So, if you have something pre-wedding, make sure it stays in a different account. I'm dating a lawyer, and I actually never discussed income, but something tells me that she wants to get married some day (something = her) and unfortunately, I will lose big if we split...dunno if I want to take the plunge. In my case, I will arm myself with an objective lawyer... noncestvrai Your 1st mistake was dating a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheena815 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I don't know if a prenup is actually legal in Canada, is it under common law? Yikes! I hope they are... anyone know for sure? I've always stated that I want to have a pretty strict one. Better safe than sorry. I mean, I will almost certainly be the main breadwinner, which is absolutely fine with me. I am happy to give my husband/ any kids whatever they need and share all my earnings ... so long as we are married. But if he were to cheat on me/ leave me... no way in hell am I giving him a dime ever again. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, I'm just the most safety-conscious person alive, always preparing for the worst-case scenario, even if its one in a million. I mean, if I marry my current bf, which is very possible, of course I can't see any of that crap happening. But you just never know for absolute certain what the future will bring. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable discussing it, either. Its a practical thing, preparing for the worst-case scenario that you hope will not ever be an issue anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Your 1st mistake was dating a lawyer. BUT she h0t man...life is hard... To help us meditate, let's ask for Kanye... http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=LU13MRtSD7E noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radmanjohn Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why are you getting married, none of that $hit is going to happen if you don't put a knee down, but that's easy to say of course. I don't know if a prenup is actually legal in Canada, is it under common law? I mean here in Qc, there are a couple of ways to split the $, and anything that was earned post-wedding, is split 50/50, generally. So, if you have something pre-wedding, make sure it stays in a different account. I'm dating a lawyer, and I actually never discussed income, but something tells me that she wants to get married some day (something = her) and unfortunately, I will lose big if we split...dunno if I want to take the plunge. In my case, I will arm myself with an objective lawyer... noncestvrai Prenups are legal, and pretty good if you stick with the rules, ILA (idependant legal advice), lots of time before the marraige, and you stick with the terms...the two things you cant sign away are....kids rights to support if you have or will have any, or possession of the matrimonial home....but if the ex psouse says she is going on welfare / or at a cost to the state and you are sitting on millions...the courts will break some of the deal and order some support if she has no other means, like if she becamse disabled....my prnup/cohabitation ensures that both parties have disabilty insurance!!!!! ...a prenup should be viwed as divorce insurance, and believe me, over 50% of docs I know will cross that time somewhere done the line...and in divorce,, it is all about money, better to do the terms before that hash it out with lawyers later!!!! The lawyers always win, followed by the non doctor spouse...the kids, and the doctor tend to be the losers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Prenups are legal, and pretty good if you stick with the rules, ILA (idependant legal advice), lots of time before the marraige, and you stick with the terms...the two things you cant sign away are....kids rights to support if you have or will have any, or possession of the matrimonial home....but if the ex psouse says she is going on welfare / or at a cost to the state and you are sitting on millions...the courts will break some of the deal and order some support if she has no other means, like if she becamse disabled....my prnup/cohabitation ensures that both parties have disabilty insurance!!!!! ...a prenup should be viwed as divorce insurance, and believe me, over 50% of docs I know will cross that time somewhere done the line...and in divorce,, it is all about money, better to do the terms before that hash it out with lawyers later!!!! The lawyers always win, followed by the non doctor spouse...the kids, and the doctor tend to be the losers.... Man that's pretty scary stuff. Okay so what if you want to get married and so does she but you bring up the prenup and now she goes apesh1t and makes the bullsh1t accusation that you don't trust her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radmanjohn Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 The beauty of a prenup is it takes money out of the equation....If someone will not do a prenup with me, it means she is more in love with what I have than with me......of course they will say you dont trust me etc.... when it comes to divorce, the lawyers will take over....they will advise on this and that because they are in it for themselves....the longer and the bigger the fight the more they get.... My view is one knows exactly down the road what would happen in a divorce or split up.....otherwise it is a crap shoot....and ladies and Gents.....learn from others....almost 50% of all your beautiful marraiges will end in divorce....so along with death and taxes... add 1/2 of the time divorce!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darla Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Honestly if you can't talk about a prenup with your fiance, your marriage is in trouble from the beginning. Most marriages don't last because a miscommunication or lack of communication messes things up. Approaching a prenup as an exercise in communication might make it easier to bring up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Honestly if you can't talk about a prenup with your fiance, your marriage is in trouble from the beginning. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I heard from a friend (who's in family law) that even living common law with someone for a year entitles them to up to half of your estate. Don't wait until you're married. If you're going to move in with someone, THEN is the time for a "contract." (Obviously, it's not called a prenup at that point... I can't remember the proper name.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radmanjohn Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I heard from a friend (who's in family law) that even living common law with someone for a year entitles them to up to half of your estate. Don't wait until you're married. If you're going to move in with someone, THEN is the time for a "contract." (Obviously, it's not called a prenup at that point... I can't remember the proper name.) Actually in Ontario it is three years...but common law does not give same rights as maariage, and no they would not be entitled to 1/2 the home if it is in your name....however, there can be arguements..for spousal support for common law, after 3 years in Ontario...less in other jurisdictions.... but I would agree....get a cohab agreement that automatically becomes a prenup or marraige contract if on decides legally to do it....if one has a child together and is in a common law relationship, the 3 year rule doesnt apply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I'll take your Kanye and raise you QMed's ridiculous remake of the same:http://youtube.com/watch?v=wqu48YTp_24 Seems to be quite relevant to this discussion. I call. Some hotties in there...=) WTF you live with a chick for 3 years and you have to give half your $hit? Now hellllllssss nooo... noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDude Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Marriage is like buying an entire store just for the candies. This may be immature as there is emotional attachment to your spouse but marriages are not what they used to be. Partly blame the feminists for that. 60% of women in US (or Canada, not sure) said they would leave their husbands if they could afford it (Source: CFRB 1010) . 50% already end up in divorce. That's 80% of screwed up marriages. It is not surprising more and more people are not getting married. Let alone prenups, the mere question of getting along with someone for 30-40 years is seemingly outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vip_138 Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 I call. Some hotties in there...=) WTF you live with a chick for 3 years and you have to give half your $hit? Now hellllllssss nooo... noncestvrai Don't you apply for Common Law. Just living with someone doesn't mean you are in a common law relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpanishFly Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 My advise to my daughter..(age 15..is to marry for money...the first time..then get divorced..and live the good life...well it worked for my ex....I am not bitter,...but my friends this is reality in Canada with no prenup... wow you actually believe that she should do that?? Why are you getting married, none of that $hit is going to happen if you don't put a knee down, but that's easy to say of course. noncestvrai lol your poor girlfriend...I hope shes not holding her breath for a ring Marriage is like buying an entire store just for the candies.Partly blame the feminists for that. 60% of women in US (or Canada, not sure) said they would leave their husbands if they could afford it (Source: CFRB 1010) lol wow i love your analogy. first of all, I partly agree with the feminism thing but the fact that 60% of women would leave their husbands if they could afford to is a much deeper issue than women just being on a power trip, theres a lot of domestic violence that goes on and women are still to this day not financially stable enough to get themselves out of the crappy situation, I've witnessed this first hand so I would go easy on blaming women for all your problems BUT I do have to say the main reasons relationships really suck in this new era is that both men and women are LAZY and unwilling to put any work into their relationships. They feel that everything should be like a fairytale, until they realize they live in reality, at which point they feel like trading their spouse in for a newer model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafield Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 haha romance is dead... I can understand some of the worry... and certainly feel for you OP... Call me arrogant but, while I can gladly talk about a prenup with my girlfriend.. and we did after reading this post.... I really wouldn't feel the need to get one and maybe that's why I would confidently marry my girlfriend... lol ... I trust her. Short of her being one of the most devoted and committed scam artists I've ever seen I know for certain she is not after my finances. I'm not going to rant about morals and how things were pre 1940 lol but personally I would not marry someone if I didn't feel confident that it would last.... Things happen, statistics are what they are but that's just the way I feel. I really want to emphasize that I don't want to come off as an elitist in the least bit and feel for the OP... I'm just surprised with all the opinions that get tossed around on these boards no one is ranting about other side of the whole thing and figured I would at least mention it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheena815 Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 It is not surprising more and more people are not getting married. Let alone prenups, the mere question of getting along with someone for 30-40 years is seemingly outrageous. Its not outrageous, I've seen it happen plenty of times. BUT I do have to say the main reasons relationships really suck in this new era is that both men and women are LAZY and unwilling to put any work into their relationships I'm not sure laziness is the cause, I'd say its more the changing significance of marriage (overall) in society. Society on the whole is less conservative and marriage no longer holds the deep religious, moral and spiritual implications it once did (again, on the whole). People are freer to leave unsatisfying marriages because A) women actually have options now in terms of supporting themselves (a GOOD thing, thank you feminists) and divorce is much more socially acceptable nowadays, than say, 60 years ago because it is not sinful or wrong in the eyes of many to get one. Being free to leave an unsatisfactory marriage because of these new social norms can be a good thing sometimes, but I agree that it also sometimes causes people to not try hard enough to make the existing marriage work... there's often no giant incentive to do so. I do not think my own father tried at all hard enough to fix his marriage before he left. It can be good and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Gah, these type of things make me never want to get married. My mom's friend in California is going through this horrible divorce right now. He's an engineer who makes a very handsome salary and his wife is a dental specialist. They're parting on bitter terms and have all the big lawyers out and it's not looking pretty....blah, the richer you get, the more problems you have sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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