Prenups

[mcater2006]

BTW, to all the ladies on this thread:

 

I have been assuming that I had been arguing the case on your behalf. The things I wrote reflects the values instilled in me by my mom (the greatest woman who made me into the successful person I am today) and by all the Canadian education (grade 7 till Master's) I have received thus far. However, as I am a [gentle?]man, I have no idea if what I am putting down here reflects your true feelings.

 

So if you think they do not and you find the notion of an independent career-oriented mom offensive, just raise the flag and I'll stop.

 

 

P.S. I apologize for the Pakistani honour-killing piece, I realize now that it's a joke in bad-taste and might have went a little too far and caused too much misunderstanding.

[jelly31]

I don't know if it's possible either. Maybe to some extent, but as you say, women are criticized for putting career before family or not having a family at all. Personally I am not planning to have children at this point. If I want to specialize, when am I going to have a chance to get pregnant and raise a well-adjusted, securely attached human being? BTW female docs only get about 17 weeks of mat leave in BC, not sure about other provinces.

[avenir001]

yes the idea of independent career-oriented women is very very offensive...deep down we all want to be slaves and men's property. those who claim otherwise are mad bcuz they can't find a man willing to take care of them forever.

[supafield]

yes the idea of independent career-oriented women is very very offensive...deep down we all want to be slaves and men's property. those who claim otherwise are mad bcuz they can't find a man willing to take care of them forever.

 

Really eh.... I've been approaching this relationship thing completely wrong lol

[Wolvenstar]

Russia is in the middle east? I'm confused.

 

Don't worry, I'm not offended. I enjoy a nice debate and discussion as much as the old lady sitting in the park feeding pigeons.

 

lol sorry, I edited that post several times, so there may be stuff I missed.

 

 

Sorry Wolvenstar, it's nothing personal, I was just trying to make a point. I think it's the same point that all the other people in this thread (especially the ladies) tried to raise, but did not do so in a more forceful and frank fashion. I might have exaggerated some parts of what I wrote, but all I'm doing is driving the point home -- the values you are trying to espouse here are very unCanadian, and they don't belong to this forum which talks about medicine -- one of Canada's most prestigious and dedicated profession -- and a profession that will shortly see the number of female physicians overtaking the number of male physicians (in fact women's enrolment into most Canadian medical schools already outnumber those of men's). And frankly your notion of stay-at-home mom offends me and pisses me off even more than I might have pissed you off. What if you died in a traffic accident? How then do you expect your stay-at-home wife, with no education and no marketable skills, to make a living and provide sustenance to your children?!

 

The rights, freedom and independence of women have become a standard weight-bearer in measuring the progress of the countries of the world. It's what separates us from third-world countries. I hope that in the future you might understand a little of the rationale behind that.

 

 

 

The values I am trying to espouse are the traditional ones, of one spouse being a home-maker while the other is a breadwinner. As I have previously stated it could be reversed, however this is not the average case, and that in my own case I would prefer to marry a woman who would stay at home with the kids. These are the traditional values in north america, including Canada, one spouse is homemaker while the other is breadwinner. You are getting hung up on the fact that I have stated that in my personal case, I would prefer to marry a woman who wanted to be a homemaker.

 

Secondly I never stated I wanted a wife with no education or marketable skills. I have stated that some men are intimidated by ambitious women, and that I would not be attracted to a woman who wanted to work full-time throughout her life. I have stated that I would marry a woman who would want to be a homemaker.

 

Did I say all woman should be like this? NO

 

 

 

I have not encrouched upon the rights/freedoms/independence of women... You only think I have because I have stated what I like in a woman, and what is commonplace. Which is a woman who is a homemaker, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Nor is there anything wrong with a woman who is a full-time worker. Only that I am not attracted to women who want to do such, nor am I the only male to express such opinions. We are not wrong for having personal taste.

 

Spanishfly;

 

I thank you for being competent. It wasn't that she was trying to attack me, it was the broad statements of honor = honor killings that pissed me off, because such generalization is idiotic. Also that anything I say would demean women in any way. I don't understand what is wrong with a woman who wants to be a housewife. I don't understand what is wrong with a man who wants a woman who would like to be a housewife.

 

Same if the reverse were true, I don't have a problem with a woman who is the breadwinner, looking for a man to stay at home with the kids. Again it just wouldnt apply to me personally. Someone is the relationship has to be a homemaker.

 

It's not really a matter of success, it's a matter of priorities. If two people really want to be full-time workers, and yet have children, it wouldn't make sense for them to be date because who then would take care of the kids? This gets into the debate on daycare which we have already discusssed.

 

 

 

Ghostgirl123;

 

I am not surprised about women defending the view that women should be able to work. I have already stated in this post what angered me.

 

With your other points, you are correct, one tends to not hear the term "career dad" because as I have already stated the norm is for the man to be the breadwinner, which is why you don't hear the term house-dad.

 

As I have stated one of the spouses has to stay home to raise kids, in my opinion, and it can be either of the two. In my case it would be my wife.

Really it depends on the personal conditions of the two dating who stays at home. Unless of course you think the kids are better off with both parents working full-time?

 

 

I think people are getting the idea that I critize women who are working full-time. What I am critizing is both parents for working full-time and one of them not willing to take on the role of home-maker. This leads to high divorce rates, this leads to less beneficial environments for raising children. I have also critized both spouses working as leading to competition marriages, rather than partnerships.

 

In my personal case (please note the personal) I could not marry a woman who would not want (note the want, implying choice, freedom, and independence) to be a housewife because I personally am not willing to be the homemaker. This is true for many people and regardless of gender it is not something that is wrong, it is something people should be aware of, and understand the complications of when getting married.

 

Again I find no offense in a career minded woman, she is just not for me. It seems that when I state that personally it is not for me, some people take it as me saying that it is wrong and should be stopped.

 

 

Supafield,

 

I get angry with I believe the conclusions made by the individual who makes a remark is idiotic. Example: honor = honor killings.

[supafield]

As that McMaster student was at that kid's idiotic remarks about the state of Mac's medical program with every post he made on premed 101 without any real evidence.

[Wolvenstar]

pretty much, except you didn't see me make a whole new thread about it, lol.

[mcater2006]

You are getting hung up on the fact that I have stated that in my personal case, I would prefer to marry a woman who wanted to be a homemaker.

 

OK, I get your point now. I would just like to kindly remind you that you are not likely to find that type of woman on this forum. You would have better luck finding that type of woman on the forum hosted by "Concerned Women for America" (http://www.cwfa.org/main.asp).

[Wolvenstar]

OK, I get your point now. I would just like to kindly remind you that you are not likely to find that type of woman on this forum. You would have better luck finding that type of woman on the forum hosted by "Concerned Women for America" (http://www.cwfa.org/main.asp).

 

Ummmm.....if i wanted to date someone I am pretty sure that I am not going to be looking for her online.

[avenir001]

Ummmm.....if i wanted to date someone I am pretty sure that I am not going to be looking for her online.

 

why not..i have fallen for you

[mcater2006]

Ideally, I'll be able to find a job that lets me balance family and career - and judging from some of the comments and attitudes from this board, I think I might stay single and adopt

 

I think that is going to be quite hard where you are going. Unless you have enough luck to specialize into radiology/dermatology/psychiatry.

[mcater2006]

So, are you saying that if I want to be a homemaker, I shouldn't be on this forum and I should be an American?

 

LOL Actually this comment is directly more towards Wolvenstar than you. Like many of the things I say, this is half-joking half-hyperbolic statement that Wolvenstar is choosing the wrong forum to share his views on what constitutes his ideal wife.

[avenir001]

AVENIR! WHAT WILL LAW SAY?! :mad:

 

law is history. he refused to sign a prenup.

[mcater2006]

law is history. he refused to sign a prenup.

 

Avenir: you and law actually knew each other, like in real life?

[mcater2006]

I'm hoping for family med, actually.

 

That is not a bad choice either, although I see that my family phys is one hard working woman.

[avenir001]

Avenir: you and law actually knew each other, like in real life?

 

lol no, thank god...just facebook & msn..but enuf to "hook up" & "break up"

[Wolvenstar]

Lol Sorry Avenir, But I am taken...I think...possibly...you better off to just ask the girl cause I just go with the flow, and let her make it as complicated for herself as she wants. So ya, somehow is some way, shape or form, I am taken.

[lostintime]

Lol at least you're getting some excitement in your life? =P

[mcater2006]

Now that we've totally derailed this thread, why not derail it a little more?

 

I feel odd sometimes. Maybe it's my "premed" personality. I can't seem to make a relationship work. My last one was seven months. My one previous was a year. So they're not like two month stints, but everything just seems to fall apart in about May. Is that just because of May 15 anxieties and I'm all anal in the month leading up to it?

 

I dunno. Everyone else seems to have long, happy relationships and I really want one of those. Maybe it's because they're not pre-med. Or have partners that are more supportive around April/May.

 

Actually. It feels weird posting this on pm101, but I think you guys know me well enough. Haha.

 

You're lucky Arandil that you actually got some relationships going. Look at me, I haven't had one relationship so far, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

If you watch Star Trek Voyager, you'll know this character in there whose name is Harry Kim, and he is known for always falling in love with the wrong girl, so I relate somewhat to him.

 

But now I think about it, I think that a relationship is too high of a cost pay to get something which I could have easily obtained with my hands ( did I just say that???!!!) Therefore, I am humbly awaiting the day when I could upload my mind into a digital paradise and live with a digital replica of the girl of my dreams.

[biloba]

Well... I put a lot of thought into this and I think I would like you to sign a prenuptial agreement.

 

Her: A pre-nup?

 

Yeah.

 

[bursts out laughing]

 

What's so funny?

 

Her: You don't have any money. I make more money than you do. Ha ha. Yeah, gimme the papers I'll sign 'em.

[mcater2006]

I'd like to live in a pretty rural area... so even if 1/3 the town needed to see me, it wouldn't be all that bad It'd be a pretty busy day though.

 

It's not that I'm not willing to work HARD. I plan to work smart about it too... and not spend all day in the office if I can, especially if I have munchkins.

 

 

Actually I have the SAME dream!!! I think that the rural ppl needs good quality med care even more than we do. And I also love the rural idea because of the much higher chance that I could date a blonde girl. (Although the most good-looking girls are Oriental, but they are off-limits to me due to economic reasons, so blonde girls are next in rank )

 

Couple years ago I played Final Fantasy 8, the main character, Squall, has regular flashbacks about his father Laguna's life in a pastoral town with his mother, Raine, when I played through those sequences I was like, "Man! That's where I want to settle when I grow up!"

[mcater2006]

Economic reasons? Are oriental girls expensive to date? Let me see. Well, my boyfriend does buy all my suppers. I get all the movie tickets. I get coffee. I get dessert. I usually get lunch.

 

I don't know. Maybe it depends on the RIGHT oriental girl.

 

I don't know. Back in feudal times it's the emperor who owns all the most hot-looking girls. So now I would guess naturally it would be the ppl with the most clout (as in the high-ranking communists where I came from) or the ppl with the most $$$.

 

 

You know what, I'm not picky. I just want to live somewhere big and open and where I can see the sky. And I can go home at night to a family I love (even if it is a bunch of cats and dogs) to a house I paid for doing a job that fits me well. Once in awhile, I'd like to travel locally, maybe take a day trip on my bike and take pictures of wildflowers or something. And have time to take off to just go and lie in my backyard and watch clouds.

 

I dunno. I don't think that's a lot to ask for.

 

Sounds to me exactly like the kind of life Laguna was leading in Squall's flashbacks in FF8 (minus the hot girl). They're my aspirations too. Except I got two parents to take care of, and I'm not too sure if your mental image translates into actual living conditions in rural Canada, ever wonder why ppl try their best to leave their parents' farms and come to big cities like Toronto?

 

Also, if you buy your apartment/condo near Lakeview, I think you will get the big and open sky too, plus the lake as a bonus.

[clobliss]

I didn't read the whole thread but I love these debates and thought as a mother of 2 who is applying to med school, I should put in my 2 cents. I got married in my last semester of undergrad and we went in fully. We don't have a prenup, we have the same bank account and we co-own everything we have. Right now, my husband would be the looser if I left, once I'm an MD, I would be (financially speaking). I think Law had it right. You're either in or you're not. Marriage is a HUGE commitment and it takes a lot of work and is alot harder than anything you've imagined. As for kids, well it's even harder than that. I do have one up on most of you though; I already don't sleep much so I'm used to that. I'm now 27 and with the kids it makes me a non-trad applicant. I already work full time doing research in resp. medicine, but I still get a lot of heat for wanting to go to medical school. A lot of people have basically blamed me of abandoning my children. It's completely ridiculous. I don't see my kids every hour of every day, but I make a point to see them at some point everyday and to make that time quality time. Sure once they're in bed and I've cleaned up and studied for the MCAT and it's now 12:30, I'm beat. But I wouldn't have it any other way. Not every woman is satisfied being a homemaker. And not every woman is satisfied being a career woman. Balancing family and work is very hard. But it is possible and as long as you are real and true to yourself and loved ones, it can work. Not everyone is at the same place on the scale. The key is the be where it works for you and your family. Besides, this allows my husband to spend time with the kids by himself and I don't now any other man who's as great of a Dad as he is. A word of advice: what you think you want now is probably completely different than what you will want once you are married and have kids. So don't be so quick to judge others.

[mcater2006]

I didn't read the whole thread but I love these debates and thought as a mother of 2 who is applying to med school, I should put in my 2 cents. I got married in my last semester of undergrad and we went in fully. We don't have a prenup, we have the same bank account and we co-own everything we have. Right now, my husband would be the looser if I left, once I'm an MD, I would be (financially speaking). I think Law had it right. You're either in or you're not. Marriage is a HUGE commitment and it takes a lot of work and is alot harder than anything you've imagined. As for kids, well it's even harder than that. I do have one up on most of you though; I already don't sleep much so I'm used to that. I'm now 27 and with the kids it makes me a non-trad applicant. I already work full time doing research in resp. medicine, but I still get a lot of heat for wanting to go to medical school. A lot of people have basically blamed me of abandoning my children. It's completely ridiculous. I don't see my kids every hour of every day, but I make a point to see them at some point everyday and to make that time quality time. Sure once they're in bed and I've cleaned up and studied for the MCAT and it's now 12:30, I'm beat. But I wouldn't have it any other way. Not every woman is satisfied being a homemaker. And not every woman is satisfied being a career woman. Balancing family and work is very hard. But it is possible and as long as you are real and true to yourself and loved ones, it can work. Not everyone is at the same place on the scale. The key is the be where it works for you and your family. Besides, this allows my husband to spend time with the kids by himself and I don't now any other man who's as great of a Dad as he is. A word of advice: what you think you want now is probably completely different than what you will want once you are married and have kids. So don't be so quick to judge others.

 

You are really like my mom, the superwoman who, despite all odds, passed her TOEFL test and plowed a way for her whole family (i.e. me) to come to North America and start a new life.

 

But as Arandill points out, most people in my generation (Generation Y I think) don't have this much stamina, myself included. So that is why I'm always on the losing side in an argument with my mom -- she is simply a much greater person than I am. I stand in her shadow (or maybe I don't even worth that much). I am forever be-humbled and feel miniscule in her presence.

[The Law]

I watched Voyager way back when it first started. Then I got bored But I know what you mean. Maybe I need to move somewhere else. More fish in the pond, as they say.

 

YAY VOYAGER!