The end goal is Med. school

[GOALiswestern]

Hey,

 

I'm completely lost in terms of what to do, so any help would be great. I'm a 4th year student, with a cGPA of 3.3 (my last year was 3.76). I have to write my MCAT this summer. Anyways, I don't know what to do, in term of next year. I don't want to do MSc (research based), but could consider anything else. I confused about what path would at least make me competitive in Canada. So, I really want to do something that will help increase my chances. I'm considering a course based master, but sure how many med schools will open up. So, any help in helping me decide what path I should take would be greatly appreciated.

 

Here's what I thinking of doing:

 

1) 5th year

2) course based masters (don't know how this will benefit me)

3) Work and apply to med school

 

thank you

[suziep100]

Hi there

For Canadian schools, it seems that undergrad GPA is really important.

 

Since your last year GPA is 3.76, which has a potential to improve, I suggest that you take a 5th year and try your best to get close to 4.00. For Queens, Western (not sure, but sounds like it), Saskatechewan, Calgary, Alberta, they look at your last/best two year GPA.

 

Also, try to get balanced & as highest score as possible for your MCAT, and if you are from GTA area, try to obtain in-province status from places possible, such as Alberta (you need to live there for only 1 year in order to obtain the residency).

[nosuperman]

Lurk the non-trad forum more as this question gets asked every couple weeks.

 

If you score a high GPA this year and your MCAT passes the cutoffs, you'll be competitive at UWO and Queens. If you do a 5th year and get even higher you can add Ottawa to that list.

 

Masters work will only help you at a few schools but you'll need to fix your GPA before really going that route.

 

Fifth year or 2nd undergrad are the go-to ways to boost your GPA for Canada. If you don't want to do this then applying overseas is an option as well.

 

Working more won't really help either - in Canada, GPA represents the bulk of your interview acceptances.

[GOALiswestern]

"Also, try to get balanced & as highest score as possible for your MCAT, and if you are from GTA area, try to obtain in-province status from places possible, such as Alberta (you need to live there for only 1 year in order to obtain the residency)."

 

Does it count if I do a master's in Alberta and make the place where I'm staying my permanent residency?

[simpy]

Yes, both U of C and U of A will grant you residency in that way.

[kylamonkey]

5th year. As someone else said above, this question is asked fairly often. Undergrad GPA is king- so you NEED to improve it. It will make you far better off than doing a course-based masters.

 

For your 5th year, Western has some stipulations, so make sure you check out their website before you sign up for courses.

 

Alberta is a good place to get residency, as is Quebec.

[future_doc]

For Quebec, residency comes after a year when you are not a fulltime student.

[GOALiswestern]

Thank you for all the replies.

 

I'm still unsure what I should do, my two recent years (this year and 3r year) will make me eligible for queens and western (of course Mcat has to meet their cutoff). So, doing a 5th year won't help me much, unless I apply after my 5th year. If I do a course based masters, won't that help me in UofT and Dal- (And i can apply this summer to them and have the course based masters count?)

 

Also, how will doing a 5th year help me besides Ottawa? If I have do a 5th year, I only get a 0.1 GPA boost (assuming I get 4.00)!

Thank you

[GOALiswestern]

bump

 

10 chara

[Pantaloons]

Thank you for all the replies.

 

I'm still unsure what I should do, my two recent years (this year and 3r year) will make me eligible for queens and western (of course Mcat has to meet their cutoff). So, doing a 5th year won't help me much, unless I apply after my 5th year. If I do a course based masters, won't that help me in UofT and Dal- (And i can apply this summer to them and have the course based masters count?)

 

Also, how will doing a 5th year help me besides Ottawa? If I have do a 5th year, I only get a 0.1 GPA boost (assuming I get 4.00)!

Thank you

 

I think people were suggesting a 5th year/2nd undergrad program as a method of boosting your GPA to make you more competitive in the 2012-2013 cycle.

In other words,

1. Get super good grades this year (your 4th year)
   
2. During the summer
   a) line up a 5th year
   or
   a new undergrad (in Alberta? That gets you "In province" classification for two medschools, I think.)
   
   
   do stellar on your MCATs

3. Start 5th year/new undergrad in Sept 2011 and kick ass.
   
4. Apply in September 2011 (during your 5th year/new undergrad) with your GPA and MCAT
   a) success? --> Medschool in Sept 2012
   
   
   not yet? --> Apply Sept 2012 with an
   even higher
   GPA received from your 5th year/new undergrad
   
   

 

Another option: Apply overseas to Ireland or the Carribean

 

Check out this pm101 flow chart; it'll help lay things out

Go to specific medschool's website to get the authoritative details re: 5th year and second degrees (like Western, Queen's. If you start a new degree, I think western might not let you reapply until you're a 4th year student again. Double check.)

[rmorelan]

I think people were suggesting a 5th year/2nd undergrad program as a method of boosting your GPA to make you more competitive in the 2012-2013 cycle.

In other words,

1. Get super good grades this year (your 4th year)
   
2. During the summer
   a) line up a 5th year
   or
   a new undergrad (in Alberta? That gets you "In province" classification for two medschools, I think.)
   
   
   do stellar on your MCATs

3. Start 5th year/new undergrad in Sept 2011 and kick ass.
   
4. Apply in September 2011 (during your 5th year/new undergrad) with your GPA and MCAT
   a) success? --> Medschool in Sept 2012
   
   
   not yet? --> Apply Sept 2012 with an
   even higher
   GPA received from your 5th year/new undergrad
   
   

 

Another option: Apply overseas to Ireland or the Carribean

 

Check out this pm101 flow chart; it'll help lay things out

Go to specific medschool's website to get the authoritative details re: 5th year and second degrees (like Western, Queen's. If you start a new degree, I think western might not let you reapply until you're a 4th year student again. Double check.)

 

Sounds like logical advise Yup - if you start a new degree western will make you finish it before you can start med school there, so be careful with that

[GOALiswestern]

Okay, everyone here is talking about a 5th year, but again, it won't boost my cGPA more then 0.1, so thats really that significant:confused: . But what is exactly wrong with a masters, I can't see why this won't help me?

 

However, even if I consider a 5th year, can I do it at another university (is that possible)? Thinking about doing it at Alberta, if it is possible?

 

Sorry for being so defensive, its just that I'm really confused and quite frankly afraid for my future (I really want to make the right decision).

 

Thank you

[GOALiswestern]

But doing a master makes the UofT cutoff from 3.6 to 3.0 does it not?

 

Ok this is my break down:

 

1: 3.09

2: 3.05

3: 3.76

4: Same or above last year

[LupeFiasco]

But doing a master makes the UofT cutoff from 3.6 to 3.0 does it not?

 

Ok this is my break down:

 

1: 3.09

2: 3.05

3: 3.76

4: Same or above last year

 

A 5th year for you is useless. If you have a good MCAT score and your 4th year GPA is around the same as your 3rd year GPA, then you are good to go for Western and Queens if you apply this September. McMaster is a long shot and Toronto may be an option if you qualify for the weighted formula and it ends up doing wonders for your wGPA.

 

A Master's will probably take 2 years unless you do a one year Master's degree. Yes, you are right that it will help you a lot with Toronto. It will also help you with Calgary (especially if you gain IP status in Alberta).

 

I say go for a Master's in Alberta.

 

- Lupe

[hastin11]

But doing a master makes the UofT cutoff from 3.6 to 3.0 does it not?

 

Ok this is my break down:

 

1: 3.09

2: 3.05

3: 3.76

4: Same or above last year

 

Meeting the cutoff to apply means nothing--take a look at the average accepted GPA, even with a masters its like 3.8x.

 

WIth 2 good years, you can apply to Western + Queens. With 3, you can add Ottawa. I really dont think a 5th year or a masters will salvage you for Mac or UT because of your 1st 2 years (no offense). Therefore, my advice would be 5th year, as it gives you another school, increases Queens and Western chances; whereas masters does almost nothing (miniscule GPA boost for Mac or UT will honestly not help you at this point)

[LupeFiasco]

Meeting the cutoff to apply means nothing--take a look at the average accepted GPA, even with a masters its like 3.8x.

 

WIth 2 good years, you can apply to Western + Queens. With 3, you can add Ottawa. I really dont think a 5th year or a masters will salvage you for Mac or UT because of your 1st 2 years (no offense). Therefore, my advice would be 5th year, as it gives you another school, increases Queens and Western chances; whereas masters does almost nothing (miniscule GPA boost for Mac or UT will honestly not help you at this point)

 

Correction: A 5th year doesn't necessarily increase his chances for Queens and Western, especially if his 4th year marks are good. Doing a 5th year for Ottawa would mean completing the 5th year and then applying (taking up 2 years). And the GPA cutoff is around 3.85 there. If you consider putting Alberta into the mix, moving there are doing a one-year Master's is the best option at this point.

 

- Lupe

[GOALiswestern]

Thank you guys for all your inputs, but I have a few questions (I asked them before but they were unanswered).

 

1. Can I do a 5th year somewhere else? It's not a matter of ease but just becuase I think I really want to be somewhere else and explore.

 

2. How many are there that have been in a similar situation and gotten in after a 5th year (I'm asking becuase I heard it goes against you for doing a 5th year?!?)

 

3. I'm also thinking of doing another undergrad degree (again my mind is all over place, I can't make up my mind, due to the fact that this is truly a important matter), but in something worth while. Any suggestions? I'm thinking RT?!?

[rmorelan]

If you wanted to do a fifth year somewhere else I believe it is possible, but you would have to tell the office. I know the intent is definitely for you do all the years in one place.

 

Doing a fifth year won't negatively effect you at all. Your GPA is used as an input into a computer algorithm - not really much more than that. Interview is closed as well - no one really knows your did 5 years is my point I guess and they won't care either way Where did you hear otherwise?

 

If Western is the goal then the arguably best way to do it is with an extra year and do everything you can to max out the GPA.

 

 

Thank you guys for all your inputs, but I have a few questions (I asked them before but they were unanswered).

 

1. Can I do a 5th year somewhere else? It's not a matter of ease but just becuase I think I really want to be somewhere else and explore.

 

2. How many are there that have been in a similar situation and gotten in after a 5th year (I'm asking becuase I heard it goes against you for doing a 5th year?!?)

 

3. I'm also thinking of doing another undergrad degree (again my mind is all over place, I can't make up my mind, due to the fact that this is truly a important matter), but in something worth while. Any suggestions? I'm thinking RT?!?

[simpy]

Thank you guys for all your inputs, but I have a few questions (I asked them before but they were unanswered).

 

1. Can I do a 5th year somewhere else? It's not a matter of ease but just becuase I think I really want to be somewhere else and explore.

 

2. How many are there that have been in a similar situation and gotten in after a 5th year (I'm asking becuase I heard it goes against you for doing a 5th year?!?)

 

3. I'm also thinking of doing another undergrad degree (again my mind is all over place, I can't make up my mind, due to the fact that this is truly a important matter), but in something worth while. Any suggestions? I'm thinking RT?!?

 

1) It's very difficult to do a 5th year somewhere else. Definitely send some e-mails. What you could consider is doing a second undergrad degree somewhere else, most of your credits transfer and you could do a second undergrad degree in 2 or 3 years (instead of 4). This is going to completely depend on the program.

 

2) It doesn't go against you at all. Many people do a 5th year. It's sort of a desperation play, but one made when someone is in a borderline situation (such as yourself). People do it because undergrad GPA trumps everything else. Doesn't matter if you do a PhD, most schools still weigh your undergrad GPA either heavily or completely.

 

3) RT? A second degree is most likely not necessary for you. I would only do a second degree if it were in a viable backup career to medicine, for instance in nursing. This wouldn't be a bad idea in that first, you'd kill the program which would make it easy to get into meds. Second, you'd have the clinical experience to know if it's right for you, and third, you'd have a backup career if meds didn't work out.

 

A second undergrad degree in a field such as sciences or general arts is recommended for some people (i.e. those such as myself who completely screwed the pooch on their first degree), but since you've done fairly well I don't think there's much point to it.

 

I would consider between a 5th year and a Master's. The 5th year I would only recommend if you were worried about MCATs. If you'd make the Western/Queen's cutoffs the 5th year is pretty pointless, but otherwise it would probably help you a lot in getting into U of C or U of A (after finishing a Master's degree at a university in Alberta).

 

Another key consideration in doing a 5th year is you really need a 3.7+ and probably some pretty solid extracurriculars. If there's any doubt about getting a 3.7, then do not do it.

[khb008]

Hey you guys, I'm in a similar situation, and I would like some help as well please,

 

I am currently in U of T 3rd year, and I did my first year at UWO.

 

My 2nd year GPA dropped because a family emergency, and the same reason caused me to relocate from UWO to Toronto.

 

Anyhow, the problem is that I haven't written my MCAT yet, and I know applying to US schools is best done early. I can not have my MCAT results in early enough and thus I have been advised to opt-out of USA application this year so that I don't have to be considered a "Re-Applicant" which is frowned upon by adcoms.

 

Firstly, what do you guys think are my chances in Canada? in USA? with current information that is.

 

Secondly, if I don't apply to USA this summer, and instead apply to Canada only, then I am doubtful that I will get into any medschools here. If i don't then I will have to apply for Canadian and USA (first time) in the summer after my final year.

 

Thus i am in the same boat as GoalisWestern in the sense that I do not know what to do in that 1 year I have after applications.

 

Would it be better for me to take a 5th year and improve GPA? Will US schools frown upon this as well??

 

Or Should I pursue a Masters for better luck?

 

Sincerely Apologize for the long post, please forgive me and be patient enough to help me . I'm really worried.

 

Edit: Sorry forgot to mention, I have taken full FCE all years and in all years 60% of courses have been at senior level. As for ECs i have the usual, Research at Faculty of Medicine of U of T. Poster publications, international conference organization as leader, and clinical volunteering and etc

 

Please give some advise as to what I should do

[nosuperman]

Hey you guys, I'm in a similar situation, and I would like some help as well please,

 

I am currently in U of T 3rd year, and I did my first year at UWO. My GPAs:

 

1) 4.00

2) 3.10

3) 3.64

4) 4.00 (I know i can acheive this)

 

My 2nd year GPA dropped because a family emergency, and the same reason caused me to relocate from UWO to Toronto.

 

Anyhow, the problem is that I haven't written my MCAT yet, and I know applying to US schools is best done early. I can not have my MCAT results in early enough and thus I have been advised to opt-out of USA application this year so that I don't have to be considered a "Re-Applicant" which is frowned upon by adcoms.

 

Firstly, what do you guys think are my chances in Canada? in USA? with current information that is.

 

Secondly, if I don't apply to USA this summer, and instead apply to Canada only, then I am doubtful that I will get into any medschools here. If i don't then I will have to apply for Canadian and USA (first time) in the summer after my final year.

 

Thus i am in the same boat as GoalisWestern in the sense that I do not know what to do in that 1 year I have after applications.

 

Would it be better for me to take a 5th year and improve GPA? Will US schools frown upon this as well??

 

Or Should I pursue a Masters for better luck?

 

Sincerely Apologize for the long post, please forgive me and be patient enough to help me . I'm really worried.

 

Assuming you get a 4.00 next year, that leaves you with 3.7 cGPA. With a high MCAT score and a decent application you'd land some interviews at some of the Canadian-friendly US schools. Check the US forum for stats on people who get interviews.

 

If you end up clearing UWO and Queen's MCAT cutoffs you'll get an interview at those schools. I'm assuming you're IP Ontario so your GPA might not be high enough to score OOP spots out west.

 

Dal people may chime in here but I believe they have a 2 year calculation as well.

 

When your shortcoming is your GPA, Masters usually won't help at all. A 5th year of high grades would add on an Ottawa interview. This or a second undergrad would be the only ways to boost your GPA for Canada.

 

If you apply now (before getting that 4th year of 4.0) I think you'll only get an interview at UWO if you clear the MCAT cutoffs. Its worth a shot. In terms of your chances, that depends on your MCAT and your interview. Ideally you'd want more than one interview but plenty of people get in with just one.

 

I don't really think you can plan for that extra year without seeing how this round of applications goes and how your GPA pans out next year. If I were in your position I'd just take it one step at a time and keep trying to boost those stats, if you stick to it you'll eventually get in somewhere.

[simpy]

Hey you guys, I'm in a similar situation, and I would like some help as well please,

 

I am currently in U of T 3rd year, and I did my first year at UWO. My GPAs:

 

Edit: Sorry forgot to mention, I have taken full FCE all years and in all years 60% of courses have been at senior level. As for ECs i have the usual, Research at Faculty of Medicine of U of T. Poster publications, international conference organization as leader, and clinical volunteering and etc

 

Please give some advise as to what I should do

 

I think the best advice I can give you is to start considering careers outside of medicine.

 

I don't mean to be rude here, because all of the previous advice certainly applies to you. And I agree that a 5th year is the best option for you in the short term. But realistically, your chances of med school in Canada hinge on you doing exceptionally well on the MCAT. If you cannot hit a 10+ on verbal and at least a Q on writing, you really don't have much of a shot in Canada.

 

You do have a better chance in the states. And with a 5th year, you would qualify for Ottawa and possibly McMaster. But this is putting so many eggs into a small number of baskets. Remember that even those who are granted an interview don't get in (less than half do).

 

I get a little nervous when I hear someone say they can get a 4.0 GPA, especially at U of T. So much can happen that can prevent that. What I'm hoping is that you're not planning this career on medicine on unrealistic expectations of yourself. You still do have a shot at medicine and you should absolutely pursue it, but you should also be realistic and think about what other careers might work for you. Have a viable backup plan that doesn't involve "doing a Master's to get into medicine."

[khb008]

Thank you nosuperman and simpy for your input,

 

noSuperman:

I think you are correct in saying that I am making very longshots from this point. I should take it slowly, and take it one step at a time. Yes, I do hope that I will get in some where eventually.

 

Simpy,

Thanks alot for the straight forward advice. No you were not being rude at all. So you're saying that i'm putting to many "Ifs and thens" into the equation. My success depends on a lot of chance and thus I should start considering another career?

 

Well, my dream is medicine and my preference is USA, I realize that I may not have much of a shot here in Canada, but many people better than me have not had any luck in Canada, but have been very successful in USA. I'm sure you are aware of this, thus would you still recommended another career?

 

You are right, I am afraid that I might be making demanding unrealistic results from my self. A 4.0 in U of T is very difficult indeed and yes a lot can go wrong unexpectedly, even things that are out of my control (bell curving etc) thus I will just do my best and see how that goes.

 

I understand that there is no "Recipe" plan for medical school and each person takes his/her own route. So I will just take a mixture of the advice, and take it one step at a time.

[future_doc]

It is prudent for all premeds to have a Plan B. Common sense really.

[simpy]

Thank you nosuperman and simpy for your input,

 

Simpy,

Thanks alot for the straight forward advice. No you were not being rude at all. So you're saying that i'm putting to many "Ifs and thens" into the equation. My success depends on a lot of chance and thus I should start considering another career?

 

Well, my dream is medicine and my preference is USA, I realize that I may not have much of a shot here in Canada, but many people better than me have not had any luck in Canada, but have been very successful in USA. I'm sure you are aware of this, thus would you still recommended another career?

 

You are right, I am afraid that I might be making demanding unrealistic results from my self. A 4.0 in U of T is very difficult indeed and yes a lot can go wrong unexpectedly, even things that are out of my control (bell curving etc) thus I will just do my best and see how that goes.

 

I understand that there is no "Recipe" plan for medical school and each person takes his/her own route. So I will just take a mixture of the advice, and take it one step at a time.

 

I think you said it right, there are too many "ifs" and "thens" in your plan. The thing is, it still can work out. The states is a fine option, but that also probably hinges on you doing well on your MCATs, and it's very expensive.

 

Of course if cost isn't an issue, you could do international schools or the Carribean. You'd be fairly competitive in either of those areas.

 

There are so many different career paths. The thing is, you can get most of what you can get from medicine in other areas. Want a challenging, well-paying career? Consider law. Want to work in health care? Consider occupational therapy, pharmacy, or nursing. Want an "adrenaline rush" and the feeling that you're helping someone? Become an EMT or a police officer. From any of these fields you can later enter medical school if you decide down the road that's what you want to do.

 

And I'm not saying to do any of those career paths now. Definitely write your MCATs, if you do happen to do very well then you have a decent shot at getting in. Certainly consider pursuing a 5th year to improve your chances, especially if your MCAT is good.

 

All I'm saying is that you should be seriously considering and looking into other career options at this point as well.