Massive admissions overhaul

[HBP]

I think he's saying there is no point including BS/PS in the OOP formula since they no longer use it in the full file-review.

 

Using a calculation of GPA + VR emulates the full file review, so it makes more sense to use it.

[Addy K]

I think it just means the same system in terms of GPA (i.e., dropping the lowest year)+ VR. Not entirely sure though.

 

I wish every school had the transparency that UofC does, they do such an awesome job telling you exactly what they look for and how everything is scored. Other schools have a ludicrous amount of secrecy (e.g., no one has any real clue on how the ABS is scored at uOttawa).

[thehumanmacbook]

^or at Queens. So hush hush up in Kingston.

 

So do they drop the lowest year for OOP? I'm still very confused.

 

And thank you for the compliments for the song I hope everyone enjoyed it, it was all in good fun. I <3 Calg.

[thatonekid]

I'm pretty sure the whole point of the no advance warning was to find people who genuinely fit those descriptions and not those who see this now and become Mother Teresa from now till October 15th - in the timeline that they are creating I hope those individuals will become evident and hopefully poorly regarded.

 

It's not a joke if you're the kind of student U of C appears to look for, with generally a broader range of life experience. There are already plenty of schools where GPA reigns supreme (one of them in the very same province as this one); one of the many schools in Canada moving slightly away from it is hardly going to spell the end of anyone's application chances.

+1 to both of these.

 

I know these changes are major, but I think a large part of the freaking out is that it was a lot of changes all at one time. If you really break down the components, most (though not all) of it isn't significantly different than how other schools evaluate applicants.

[__bdas51]

attributes >>> activities -- great change! go ucalg

[MarathonRunner]

ughhh theres no way I'm asking my references to write another reference letter just for a school that doesn't even have 30 OOP seats...

 

and 60% is based on EC's?!?!?!?!? this is a joke.

 

60% is not based on "ECs" - 60% is based on whether the applicant has displayed, through their application, that they possess the attributes that the U of C is looking for in future physicians. Yes, many of those qualities will be demonstrated through ECs, but can also be demonstrated in other ways. Certainly the communication skills; interpersonal skills and collaboration; intellectual curiosity, scholarship and research; and evidence of organizational/management skills and leadership, can all be demonstrated in purely academic settings, in a variety of ways.

 

I've certainly had plenty of courses during my undergraduate program where I had to demonstrate all of these qualities, and would have professors from those courses who could vouch for those skills and attributes. Now maybe not all undergraduate programs or universities allow students to display these types of qualities, but at the university I attended, in the program I was in, we certainly had the opportunity to show we possessed these sorts of qualities, to professors who knew us personally (the advantage of going to a medium-sized university with a fairly small-sized program I guess!)

[MarathonRunner]

^or at Queens. So hush hush up in Kingston.

 

So do they drop the lowest year for OOP? I'm still very confused.

 

If you will have a degree by the time you matriculate, they will drop your lowest year, is what I understand from reading the document and the comments on the blog.

[thehumanmacbook]

If you will have a degree by the time you matriculate, they will drop your lowest year, is what I understand from reading the document and the comments on the blog.

 

 

REALLY?????????

 

K screw the song. I might actually stand a chance.

[DuckieLoon]

For OOP:

 

"So the new formula is going to be:

2xGPA(standardized,see #9 below)+MCAT VR

 

To us, this makes intuitive sense. We do a partial review of the file using the

same system as we do in a full review, and then carry that forward for the top

scoring group to get a full review."

 

I don't get this. Does this mean that the new formula above is used for the "partial review of the file", before it goes to full file review... but then it goes on to say that the partial review will use the same system as the full file review.

 

I don't get it..... Can anyone else make sense of this?

 

Hey everyone!

From what I understand, all OOP applicants will be sent for a partial file review using this formula: 2xGPA(standardized,see #9 below)+MCAT VR.

 

Everyone will be ranked/ordered according to their score, and the top 250 get picked up for the full file review (consisting of 20% GPA, 10% MCAT VR, 10% subjective academics, and the 10% each for evaluating Communications, Ethics, Interpersonal skills, Communities/Advocacy, Research Scholarship, Leadership/Organizational skills)

 

In terms of what Dr. W was saying about how the partial review "formula" mimics the full review, I interpreted it as:

Partial File Review: 2x "Standardized GPA" + MCAT VR is proportional to

Full File Review: 20% GPA + 10% MCAT VR (note how the GPA is similarly weighted 2x as much as the MCAT VR).

 

In previous years, we had used a more complex regression analysis where GPA and all MCAT components were statistically weighted differently in the partial review compared to the full review. Now, there is a clear linkage between how the partial review scores and the full review scores are derived.

 

Hope my thinking makes sense! This is only conjecture on my part. Probably posting a question on the admissions blog will be the most direct way to an answer.

 

Good luck with apps everyone!

[charmer08]

It's not a joke if you're the kind of student U of C appears to look for, with generally a broader range of life experience. There are already plenty of schools where GPA reigns supreme (one of them in the very same province as this one); one of the many schools in Canada moving slightly away from it is hardly going to spell the end of anyone's application chances.

 

most schools look at 2 or 3 years or they might give some kind of advantage to one set of people and not the others (i.e. dropping an entire year or courses with the lowest marks)... only mcmaster is the one who looks at everything now (NOSM and quebec schools are not included)

[OttawaURookie]

Can someone explain one thing to me...I couldn't get into the document posted on here. But what is the bit about relying on Attributes as opposed to Activities (is that the 60% discussed)? How is this 60% judged. What shows you have great communication?

[rmorelan]

Can someone explain one thing to me...I couldn't get into the document posted on here. But what is the bit about relying on Attributes as opposed to Activities (is that the 60% discussed)? How is this 60% judged. What shows you have great communication?

 

Your letters of ref (one of which is basically for this purpose), and your ECs, research, employment history..... if I am reading this correctly. That sort of subjective evaluation is going to be the problem with the system - just like all other holistic evaluation systems out there I guess.

[rmorelan]

 

REALLY?????????

 

K screw the song. I might actually stand a chance.

 

heheheh that was kind of our point - if a 10% VR section is the only thing worrying you then you would think you should still have a shot at this for sure

[thehumanmacbook]

heheheh that was kind of our point - if a 10% VR section is the only thing worrying you then you would think you should still have a shot at this for sure

 

Yeah and if they drop my lowest year....my "wGPA" actually is quite nice.

[MarathonRunner]

 

REALLY?????????

 

K screw the song. I might actually stand a chance.

 

Macbook, here's what Dr. Walker said in the comments on the blog:

 

The exact wording of the motion that was passed by the committee is that you could drop a year if you were in the final year of your degree. What I take that to mean is that in order to drop the year, you have to have a degree by May 1st. If you are not anticipating graduating, you don’t get to drop the year. If you anticipate graduating, but then don’t, we would have to go back and recalculate your GPA. This is intended to be a reward for people who complete their degrees and take higher level courses.

[zxcv]

The number of applicants may increase. A lot of people who don't stand a chance will apply, thinking they might get in. More money for calgary. It might become another McMaster, but not to the same extent due to the IP v. OOP consideration

[epson]

The number of applicants may increase. A lot of people who don't stand a chance will apply, thinking they might get in.

 

elaborate please ...

[Rebencer]

I thought these adjustments would eliminate a lot of applicants that wouldn't be competitive? Especially in the GPA area since now your entire academic average dictates eligibility, rather than your best two years.

[thehumanmacbook]

Aren't they using the best two years if you're applying during your matriculating year?

 

That's a big boost for a lot of people...wouldn't that mean more people applying?

[Rebencer]

It would be a boost for people in 4th year or later, which I think is the point, they would like older applicants. I guess an increase in the number of applicants would depend on how many people now feel med is more of a possibility if they drop their worst year vs. how many people no longer meet the GPA cut-off now that their entire record is used to determine eligibility.

 

I think overall they will get less applicants than before.

[Erk]

most schools look at 2 or 3 years or they might give some kind of advantage to one set of people and not the others (i.e. dropping an entire year or courses with the lowest marks)... only mcmaster is the one who looks at everything now (NOSM and quebec schools are not included)

 

Given that the norm for an undergrad degree is four years and you can drop your worst year from consideration, Calgary more or less still falls into the "most schools" you just described.

 

There are some unusual cases where the GPA calculation might be tricky, and I could see them needing special consideration in situations where, for example, an applicant has two degrees with the first one substantially worse than the second for GPA. However, this is far less exclusionist than schools where your application isn`t even considered if your GPA is under 3.8. Further, the GPA minimum cutoff at U of C is quite low, and I imagine the subjective component is partly there to mitigate the effect of someone with several recent excellent years and a few ancient but poor ones, as long as such applicants meet the minimum cutoff.

[eternalkeener]

Oh God, I hope Erk is right.

[Femto]

Hey everyone!

From what I understand, all OOP applicants will be sent for a partial file review using this formula: 2xGPA(standardized,see #9 below)+MCAT VR.

 

Everyone will be ranked/ordered according to their score, and the top 250 get picked up for the full file review (consisting of 20% GPA, 10% MCAT VR, 10% subjective academics, and the 10% each for evaluating Communications, Ethics, Interpersonal skills, Communities/Advocacy, Research Scholarship, Leadership/Organizational skills)

 

In terms of what Dr. W was saying about how the partial review "formula" mimics the full review, I interpreted it as:

Partial File Review: 2x "Standardized GPA" + MCAT VR is proportional to

Full File Review: 20% GPA + 10% MCAT VR (note how the GPA is similarly weighted 2x as much as the MCAT VR).

 

In previous years, we had used a more complex regression analysis where GPA and all MCAT components were statistically weighted differently in the partial review compared to the full review. Now, there is a clear linkage between how the partial review scores and the full review scores are derived.

 

Hope my thinking makes sense! This is only conjecture on my part. Probably posting a question on the admissions blog will be the most direct way to an answer.

 

Good luck with apps everyone!

 

Okay, I get that. Thanks for this response!

 

However, the partial review may be proportional to the full file review (2XGPA + VR ~ 20% GPA + 10% MCAT VR + 10% subjective academics + the 10% each for evaluating Communications, Ethics, Interpersonal skills, Communities/Advocacy, Research Scholarship, Leadership/Organizational skills), but it still could select an OOP group that considerably differs from what they are actually looking for in an applicant. Am I right? It would seem that by not looking at the 60% non-academic component for OOP pool in the partial review, they are not using a component of their application process that they clearly feel is very important, just because of OOP status. (do non Albertans inherently possess the traits they are looking for???)

 

Perhaps I am misinterpreting something.

[astrogirl]

Oh God, I hope Erk is right.

 

Erk is always right. Even though he won't help you move.

[smile101]

I REALLY appreciate that Calgary is moving towards transparency in the application process, I feel like this is a step that many other schools would be wise to follow. Applying to medical school is a major event in our lives, and personally it irritates me when schools decide that we don't have to know how the application process works.

 

I think the changes that calgary has implemented will help them get the kind of students that they seemed to be looking for anways... with one glaring exception. Why are graduate grades no longer included until you have your grad degree? In my opinion this would discourage students from pursuing research if they didn't get into medical school right away, as you aren't going to get that instant improvement to your application GPA. Obviously your application will probably improve in other ways, but sometimes it is difficult to hold out hope that the adcom will notice the additions to other areas of the application. It makes me wonder if I would have chosen to do a second undergrad instead of a masters based on this change. That is a really frightening thought considering how much I value the unique learning experiences and opportunities that I have experienced because of grad school.

 

I thought that the u of c wanted students with these kind of experiences and critical thinking skills...

 

Anyways good luck to all of you guys in this years applications