aaronjw Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Did you mean Russian applicants? I think he actually meant Polish ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Applicants who student folder shows he was ever accused or academic dishonesty or applicants who had committed criminal offenses will NEVER be considered. Hang on, simply accused? Wouldn't it make more sense if they were actually convicted (can't think of a better word) of academic dishonesty to never consider them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hang on, simply accused? Wouldn't it make more sense if they were actually convicted (can't think of a better word) of academic dishonesty to never consider them? Yeah the entire innocent until proven guilty would seem to apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I think he actually meant Polish ones You know the trouble with all of this is very shortly the adcom committee would be filled with hard drinking alcoholics as it only takes 2-3 years to end up on that committee as a student Interestingly premeds would likely also start taking drinking classes in order to improve their score - imagine what that would be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 My rules (I would like to be an adcom at McGill):... Wow, it was probably your intention, but your rules are quite harsh/strict. Lots of ways you can become permanently ineligible to apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hang on, simply accused? Wouldn't it make more sense if they were actually convicted (can't think of a better word) of academic dishonesty to never consider them? I meant accused as in convicted (a formal accusation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Wow, it was probably your intention, but your rules are quite harsh/strict. Lots of ways you can become permanently ineligible to apply. Atleast I accept feedback from applicants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedPen Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I would remove the EC requirement. How you spend your time is your own business. I don't care if you volunteered for 600 hours at a cancer hospital or if you spent all your time playing Xbox with your neighbour. In the end, if you can do well on the MMI, none of what got you to be a likeable and viable candidate matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I meant accused as in convicted (a formal accusation). They are opposites. Accused definitely does not mean you did anything wrong - rather it only means that he authorities believe that they have the proof against you. This is a first step in the process that must be fair and allow you to defend yourself. You remain innocent. Convicted means the end of the case has occurred and the process has been completed. (ifd there is no appeal or the appeal has been dealt with) It is unfair and against natural justice to exclude someone on the basis of a mere allegation. Please revise your rules accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 They are opposites. Accused definitely does not mean you did anything wrong - rather it only means that he authorities believe that they have the proof against you. This is a first step in the process that must be fair and allow you to defend yourself. You remain innocent. Convicted means the end of the case has occurred and the process has been completed. (ifd there is no appeal or the appeal has been dealt with) It is unfair and against natural justice to exclude someone on the basis of a mere allegation. Please revise your rules accordingly. You're right. Seems my rules were written by the Baath party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 You're right. Seems my rules were written by the Baath party. haha, you belong in adcom as you are flexible and willing to listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubcMDhopeful Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would remove the EC requirement. How you spend your time is your own business. I don't care if you volunteered for 600 hours at a cancer hospital or if you spent all your time playing Xbox with your neighbour. In the end, if you can do well on the MMI, none of what got you to be a likeable and viable candidate matters. Amen, I completely agree with this. I think less weight needs to be placed upon ECs as they are subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 as are the reviews of the narratives/essays subjective and Panel interviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubcMDhopeful Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 as are the reviews of the narratives/essays subjective and Panel interviews I also agree with that, none of those are currently present in the UBC system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would remove the EC requirement. How you spend your time is your own business. I don't care if you volunteered for 600 hours at a cancer hospital or if you spent all your time playing Xbox with your neighbour. In the end, if you can do well on the MMI, none of what got you to be a likeable and viable candidate matters. I disagree. HOW you interact with people is just as important as the marks you achieve. Dr's need to be humans and if you've spent your time doing nothing but studying and playing video games chances are you have the personality of a gnat and team work skills of a single cell orgamism. I know i am generalizing and i used to think the EC req was fluff to until i started to look deeper at why it matters. Most employers want people who are articulate, communicate well, personable, etc. Generally those qualities come from interactions with people, not from a textbook or video games where the deepest level of communication is 'haha dude! I, like, so totally killed you ass" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would remove the EC requirement. How you spend your time is your own business. I don't care if you volunteered for 600 hours at a cancer hospital or if you spent all your time playing Xbox with your neighbour. In the end, if you can do well on the MMI, none of what got you to be a likeable and viable candidate matters. However, ECs would probably help to narrow down the applicant field to pick out candidates who are more likely to be personable and likeable to give interview spots to, wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedPen Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I disagree. HOW you interact with people is just as important as the marks you achieve. Dr's need to be humans and if you've spent your time doing nothing but studying and playing video games chances are you have the personality of a gnat and team work skills of a single cell orgamism. I know i am generalizing and i used to think the EC req was fluff to until i started to look deeper at why it matters. Most employers want people who are articulate, communicate well, personable, etc. Generally those qualities come from interactions with people, not from a textbook or video games where the deepest level of communication is 'haha dude! I, like, so totally killed you ass" lol You're just assuming that people who don't volunteer all have the personality of a gnat. Some people spend a lot of time with family and develop a great sense of belonging and a great outlook on life. Others work menial jobs because they have to and do well at work. Others read and play chess or spend times with friends. None of those are impressive ECs for an adcom but who cares? There is nothing to say that these people aren't happy and that they aren't good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 You're just assuming that people who don't volunteer all have the personality of a gnat. Some people spend a lot of time with family and develop a great sense of belonging and a great outlook on life. Others work menial jobs because they have to and do well at work. Others read and play chess or spend times with friends. None of those are impressive ECs for an adcom but who cares? There is nothing to say that these people aren't happy and that they aren't good people. What you describe above doesn't necessarily mean they are capable communicators. The town bum can be a social butterfly and spend a lot of time with his "peers" socializing and developing a great sense of belonging. That doesn't mean I want that person as my Doctor. EC's can be anything and what you distil from those activities and how you communicate that is what's important whether it's volunteering in a hospital, working as a CEO, playing on a sports team or the peace corps. Do SOMETHING, I think, is the point to the EC's rather than being a book worm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInVan Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would make holding a customer service job at some point mandatory. A lot of people could learn a lot about how to interact with people (especially when they are sometimes angry) from a job like this. It can be very humbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedPen Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 What you describe above doesn't necessarily mean they are capable communicators. The town bum can be a social butterfly and spend a lot of time with his "peers" socializing and developing a great sense of belonging. That doesn't mean I want that person as my Doctor. EC's can be anything and what you distil from those activities and how you communicate that is what's important whether it's volunteering in a hospital, working as a CEO, playing on a sports team or the peace corps. Do SOMETHING, I think, is the point to the EC's rather than being a book worm. That's the thing: most people do something but 90% of the time, that something falls short of what the adcom wants so people go out and do something else, just because it looks better. I say do whatever you want and if the town bum was such a social butterfly, maybe I would want him as my doctor. Who says he wouldn't be as good as the person who was a goalie on a soccer team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would make holding a customer service job at some point mandatory. A lot of people could learn a lot about how to interact with people (especially when they are sometimes angry) from a job like this. It can be very humbling. Finding a job is not easy, so what if you were not lucky enough to find a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Finding a job is not easy, so what if you were not lucky enough to find a job? or what about non-traditional applicants who never had a CS type job in their early years. Should we be expected to go find one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInVan Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I once worked with a physician who was on the adcom at one medical school, and I'll never forget the day he said (after going on about how he hated students that bought overseas experiences), "I don't want the kid who has had everything handed to him and now wants to be a doctor, I want the kid who put himself through school by flipping burgers, and still wants to be a doctor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInVan Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Finding a job is not easy, so what if you were not lucky enough to find a job? Does no one have summer jobs in high school and university anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Does no one have summer jobs in high school and university anymore? I do..and I work part time during school... I kind of want a longer-term assessment of applicants rather than a CV sketch and a one-day interview. It'll be like cutting people slowly from the boot camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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