deeman101 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Messed up stuff... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/17/controversial-therapy-for-young-transgender-patients-raises-questions/?test=latestnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Messed up stuff... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/17/controversial-therapy-for-young-transgender-patients-raises-questions/?test=latestnews He is a male child growing up in an environment with only female influence--and before anyone jumps the gun and suggest that they can be the "dad" too, well, you're right, because I'm the mom and the dad in our family, but you are still not a male. Regardless of the type of role the male plays in a family, he will still display a role that a child will associate as being "father"...even if the male is playing the housewife. Am I saying there is anything wrong with two women raising a child? No. But they have to be honest with themselves, he is not getting a "father" figure...he will associate all of his learning with the moms and therefore, as a child who shouldn't really know what it is to be male or female other than what he is taught anyways (since there are few hormones flowing in his system), this is far too early for them to make such a decision. He will (almost obviously) choose to be like his mothers. Messing with a child's hormones and growth is wrong and can cause problems. If he wishes to do something about it when he is a legal adult, all the power to him, but right now...wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Controversial Therapy for Pre-Teen Transgender Patient Raises Questions By Perry Chiaramonte Published October 17, 2011 FoxNews.com A lesbian couple in California who say their 11-year-old son Tommy who wants to be a girl named Tammy are giving their child hormone blockers that delay the onset of puberty -- so that he can have more time that he can have more time to decide if he wants to change his gender. The couple’s supporters say the Hormone Blocking Therapy has only minor side effects and is appropriate for a child who is unsure of his gender. "This is definitely a changing landscape for transgender youth," said Joel Baum, director of education and training for Gender Spectrum, a California-based non-profit group. "This is about giving kids and their families the opportunity to make the right decision." But critics of the treatment say 11-year-olds are not old enough to make life-altering decisions about changing their gender, and parents should not be encouraging them. They say it’s too soon to tell what the side effects of the treatments may be, and they say Tommy’s parents, Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, are irresponsible for seeking them and allowing them to be administered. "This is child abuse. It's like performing liposuction on an anorexic child," said Dr. Paul McHugh, professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University. "It is a disorder of the mind. Not a disorder of the body. Dealing with it in this way is not dealing with the problem that truly exists. “We shouldn't be mucking around with nature. We can’t assume what the outcome will be," McHugh said. Dr. Manny Alvarez, senior managing health editor of FoxNews.com, said the hormone blockers also may pose a medical risk. "I think that it’s highly inappropriate to be interfering with natural hormonal growth patterns,” Alvarez said. “There are significant potential problems necessary for growth and development. "Potential long-term effects can include other abnormalities of hormones, vascular complications and even potential cancer. I think that if this child – as he finishes his puberty and teenage years – decides to undergo a transgender procedure – then there are proper channels to do so. “But to do it at the age of 11 -- to me -- could be potentially dangerous to the health of this child," he said. Tommy's parents, Moreno and Lobel, say they support their child and feel this is the best way for him to find an answer to a question he’s been asking all his life. They say Tommy – whom they now call Tammy – began taking GnRH inhibitors over the summer so that he will remain a prepubescent boy until he turns 14 or 15. They say they want to give him more time to explore the female gender identity that he associates with. Thomas began saying he was a girl when he was 3 years old, his parents said in an interview with the Daily Mail. He was learning sign language due to a speech impediment, and one of the first things he told his mothers was, “I am a girl.” They say they thought he was confused or mistaken, and signed back, 'No. No. Thomas is a boy." But Thomas insisted, they said. He shook his head “no” and repeated what he had signed. They said Thomas threatened to mutilate his genitals when he was 7, and psychiatrists diagnosed a gender identity disorder. One year later, he began transitioning to Tammy. After much deliberation with family and therapists, the child began taking hormone blockers a few months ago. The medication, which must be changed once a year, was implanted in the boy’s upper left arm. Tommy will continue this treatment until he turns 14 or 15, at which point he will be taken off the blockers and pursue the gender he feels is the right one. He will then either start his puberty cycle as a boy – or begin making the full transition to a girl. "There's an increase of children who are telling their parents that they are a different gender. We're trying to understand why there's an increase," said Diane Ehrensaft, a developmental and clinical psychologist and author of the book, "Gender-Born. Gender-Made," who says the trend may be due to a more open society. But while chemicals are giving children like Tommy more time to decide which side of the fence they belong on, some critics say that some children who question their identity at a very young age might change their mind when they start adolescence. "Most transgender patients will say that they knew at 6 years old. But what we don't know is how many others had those thoughts and feelings that went away once they hit puberty," said Dr. Jeffrey Spiegel, a professor at Boston University and a plastic surgeon who specializes in facial feminization operations for transgender men. "While it may be a good therapy for those who've committed to transgender, it may not be good for those who might have changed their mind once they hit puberty and beyond." Walt Heyer, whose book "Paper Genders" details his own experience transitioning from a man to a woman and back again, agreed. "The blockers should NOT be introduced to a child," Heyer said. "If they are going to make a transition, they should wait to do so when they reach 18 to 20 years old. When you start the therapy at that age you are not dealing with the fact that the mind is not fully developed." Heyer also cited a Dutch study that said 61 percent of individuals who desire a gender change are found to have secondary psychiatric disorders, such as depression or dissociative disorder, which he suffered from. Other critics asked whether Tommy’s same-sex parents may be unknowingly influencing his questions about his gender. “Undue influence on the child simply has to be ruled out,” said psychiatrist Keith Ablow, a Fox News contributor. “It's the psychologically correct thing to do, the ethical thing to do and the moral thing to do." "Obviously, when two females adopt a male child, then assert that the child is not actually male, but is, instead, actually a female -- like both of them. Everyone in the family should be psychologically evaluated in a comprehensive way before a step like gender reassignment is considered,” said Ablow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 California is the wild wild west of medicine. Look at the Michael Jackson case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehockeykid Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 future doc any deeper opinions on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 *sits down to enjoy the show that's about to unfold* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wow the level of intolerance and ignorance amongst younger generations always shocks me. Yeah, I agree, can't blame the nurse, but you CAN blame the doctor who has the right and RESPONSIBILITY for the welfare of the child. Are you telling me that if I go in and ask to have an arm attached to my forehead the doctor should simply comply and not be blamed for attempting to figure out wtf was wrong with my pysche? Should doctors always obey the wishes of the patient and never attempt to intervene when a CHILD is put into harms way? Doctors aren't your *****. Sure, there is an increased likelihood that the parents of this child has caused some gender-identity issues, but it is not the single or defining factor for sure. They adopted this child--there could easily have been this problem present without the lesbian parents...chances are, they have a heavy influence, but that does not make gay/lesbian parenting wrong. ****, with that kind of mentality, why don't you take my kids away too...since I'm female and raising them without a male partner (well, I suppose the boyfriend counts, but he isn't the father)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 *sits down to enjoy the show that's about to unfold* Don't worry, the 2-post-member up there intentionally wanted to be a ****-disturber, but even realizing that bull**** that comes out of his mouth I love lashing out at insensitive, judgmental idiots seeking the attention. God I wish Freud were alive...he'd say this guy (or girl...whatever) is turned on by the verbal spanking. And I aim to please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wow the level of intolerance and ignorance amongst younger generations always shocks me. How do you know the age of the people replying? Unless you are a 60 year old, it would be a bit ignorant to assume that they are of a "younger generation" wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 How do you know the age of the people replying? Unless you are a 60 year old, it would be a bit ignorant to assume that they are of a "younger generation" wouldn't it? Nope...simply the average and typical age of trolls and members on this board are younger than I am, but you are correct...could very well be older...doesn't change my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrogirl Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Are you telling me that if I go in and ask to have an arm attached to my forehead the doctor should simply comply and not be blamed for attempting to figure out wtf was wrong with my pysche? Should doctors always obey the wishes of the patient and never attempt to intervene when a CHILD is put into harms way? Doctors aren't your *****. Actually, I've had some conversations in the last month that lead me to believe that a disturbingly large number of the people I know think that doctors should just be vending machines for whatever people want no matter what a bad idea it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Actually, I've had some conversations in the last month that lead me to believe that a disturbingly large number of the people I know think that doctors should just be vending machines for whatever people want no matter what a bad idea it is. Ugh....they think everyone is on the planet to serve them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm88 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Ugh....they think everyone is on the planet to serve them. And the government/industry/private sector owe them a job...but that's another can of worms. Too much entitlement going on: just because you CAN...doesn't mean you should. I really hope this kid's health doesn't get all screwed up, and he doesn't regret "his" decision later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 if you get a psychiatrist to sign off on the gender identity disorder it can be an indication, usually you need to see a psychiatrist for at least a year though before they initiate therapy. i don't really have any problem with the therapy but i think they might want to wait until he's a little bit older, he may indeed have gender identity disorder, but i would air on the side of caution and wait until he's older (at least 16, and independent of his parents influence) and more cognizant of the consequences of his actions. The real idiot here is the endocrinologist who administered a GnRH inhibitor for something that isn't even indicated. How they still can keep their license is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 to be honest, i actually have a strong belief that medicine can be used to enhance normal life, rather than just rehabilitate those who are unsatisfied with their lives, i think medicine is too paternalistic with regard to what we decide is appropriate. i think that as long as people understand the risks associated with a given therapy, they should be allowed to undergo it. we allow plastic surgery, botox, and other cosmetic procedures. hypothetically speaking, why can't someone ask for an ssri if they feel good but want to feel great? Actually, I've had some conversations in the last month that lead me to believe that a disturbingly large number of the people I know think that doctors should just be vending machines for whatever people want no matter what a bad idea it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 i don't really have any problem with the therapy but i think they might want to wait until he's a little bit older, he may indeed have gender identity disorder, but i would air on the side of caution and wait until he's older (at least 16, and independent of his parents influence) and more cognizant of the consequences of his actions. You mean starting a Gnrh antagonist therapy at 16? Because his puberty would be over by then. Anyway lupron and other Gnrh drugs are approved for early central puberty, not for gender identity disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 sorry, i more meant to convey that addressing the problem (gender identity and male to female transition) itself, might be better suited to when he was older, not the specific endocrine therapy. it's a bit of a roll of the dice, since he'll develop irreversible masculine features if he avoids the GnRH antagonist and may decide he wants to be a woman, which is a bigger pain in the ass, on the other hand, if this is a phase caused by, say, depersonalization, putting him on GnRH inhibitors could cause significant trauma, bullying and developmental problems. It's really hard to know a right answer unless you're in the room, the kid could be completely cognizant, conscious of the consequences, sincere in his desire and able to act as a mature minor. I have a feeling this story would get a lot less play if the parents weren't lesbians though. Things are used off label all the time, you can take stabs at depersonalization with naltrexone, lamotrogine, and levitiracetam... although none are approved for the condition... i understand this case is a little more bizarre and complex so i think i'm honestly just going to withhold an opinion... it's just a weird situation all around You mean starting a Gnrh antagonist therapy at 16? Because his puberty would be over by then. Anyway lupron and other Gnrh drugs are approved for early central puberty, not for gender identity disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Not a big issue and mostly for interest's sake but lupron and similar drugs are GnRH agonists, not antagonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 ^True I made a mistake, lupron is an agonist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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