Corie Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hi, Can someone enlighten me on how competitive getting into residency is? As a first year medical student, I'm kind of lost... How competitive is specialties such as cardiology, family medicine, internal medicine? Do I need to start worrying about this stuff now? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 It depends on the specialty, which depends on # of spots vs. applicants, which fluctuates year-to-year. some specialties are consistently easy while some are difficult. internal and family are typically easy. ophtho and derm are difficult. if you are picky about location, it will add another layer of competition. it's always best to find where your interests lay as early as possible then start worrying how competitive your choices are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 You can look at past CaRMS statistics to get an idea of overall trends.. for subspecialties such as cardiology, there is an additional match after you enter internal medicine residency. I wouldn't worry if you don't know what you want to do right now, but do start thinking about it and consider shadowing to explore all fields of possible interest, as it might affect your plans for the summers after 1st and/or 2nd year. While it is not impossible to switch paths late and succeed, the earlier you know, the smoother your path will be in terms of setting up research/electives/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiomegaly Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Agree with Lactic Folly and tooty. Be aware of the uber competitive specialties - Derm, optho, rads, plastics, ENT, urology and then the rising competitive specialties like FRCP emerg and anesthesia My advice to you is to check these out first to see if you like them. Or consider the following characteristics to help you narrow down what you like/don't like -surgery vs. medical specialty -specialized vs. generalist -lucrative salary vs. great salary (you'll never be hurting as a doctor) -inpatient vs. outpatient ->10 years in training vs. 2-4 years of residency For some of the uber competitive specialties you will have to do research and multiple electives to keep up with the other extremely keen and excellent candidates. Obviously there is a rare exception who matches with none of the above but consider yourself the rule, not the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 The rule I tell all of my budding newly minted medical students is: aim high, downgrade later if you want. Everyone should be wanting to go for ROAD/PRS/ENT/URO. Really force them at the start. If it turns out you hate them, then you can go for something else. Don't start with superhippy family medicine aspirations and then have a third year epiphany that PRS is the perfect fit. That's like forgetting your pen when the aliens finally tell you, the Chosen One, the meaning of life. I tell them to think of the above approach as somewhat of an investment. Gives you more options. Going for FP from the start - getting Cs in undergrad. Going for derm from the start - getting As in undergrad. What does PRS mean? This actually is an interesting post, i just have not heard the term PRS before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I'd assume plastic and reconstructive surgery. I agree with brooksbane, and would add EM to the list. The only caveat is people with subspecialty surgery-heavy applications who change their minds for general surgery will need to pay some attention to explaining this on their applications... but the ones I know who did this turned out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiomegaly Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I agree to an extent but I would add that you aren't "downgrading" to another specialty... there are a lot of very intelligent internal med, paediatric and family med docs who obviously matched to a specialty where the are more spots but that doesn't make them any less of a physician than the one guy who happened to match to plastics from your school. To each their own type of medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Good point cardiomegaly.. I read it as downgrading in terms of competitiveness, not in terms of career, but I see how the post could be taken otherwise and you are absolutely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerena Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 How competitive is neurology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigM Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 How competitive is neurology? Doesn't seem to be overly competitive. I just looked at the 2011 stats but there were 7/42 spots that were unfilled by Canadian grads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerena Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Doesn't seem to be overly competitive. I just looked at the 2011 stats but there were 7/42 spots that were unfilled by Canadian grads. Nice, thanks! P.S. BigM, could you tell me which statistics report you looked at? There are quite a few on the CaRMS website and I'm not sure which to look at: http://www.carms.ca/eng/operations_R1reports_11_e.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Nice, thanks! P.S. BigM, could you tell me which statistics report you looked at? There are quite a few on the CaRMS website and I'm not sure which to look at: http://www.carms.ca/eng/operations_R1reports_11_e.shtml I generally look at this one for that sort of stuff: http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/7_Discipline%20Choices%20of%20Canadian%20Applicants_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shikimate Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I found some of the overall stats not that useful, because the residency spots in French school wouldn't be an option for English speaking only applicants. For example, out of the 34 internal spots leftover from R1, 18 of them (>50%) are in Quebec French schools, and therefore wouldn't be an option for many applicants. I personally prefer this one: http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/24_Discipline%20Choice%20of%20CDN%20Grads%20by%20School%20and%20Discipline1_en.pdf I find this the most comprehensive and useful stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I found some of the overall stats not that useful, because the residency spots in French school wouldn't be an option for English speaking only applicants. For example, out of the 34 internal spots leftover from R1, 18 of them (>50%) are in Quebec French schools, and therefore wouldn't be an option for many applicants. I personally prefer this one: http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/24_Discipline%20Choice%20of%20CDN%20Grads%20by%20School%20and%20Discipline1_en.pdf I find this the most comprehensive and useful stat. that is my second favourite I would love a simple combo of discipline choice break down by school with number who applied, and number who matched first and second round in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerena Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I generally look at this one for that sort of stuff: http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/7_Discipline%20Choices%20of%20Canadian%20Applicants_en.pdf Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 This will give a better picture of relative competitiveness of each specialty. The last column shows how many applicants chose each seat as their first choice discipline in 2011. Ophtho wins obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I have the opposite viewpoint. Life is short, so enjoy it. If a person can be happy with family med, why drain oneself brown nosing people for several years, then struggling through half a decade of rigorous training when you don't have to? The rule I tell all of my budding newly minted medical students is: aim high, downgrade later if you want. Everyone should be wanting to go for ROAD/PRS/ENT/URO. Really force them at the start. If it turns out you hate them, then you can go for something else. Don't start with superhippy family medicine aspirations and then have a third year epiphany that PRS is the perfect fit. That's like forgetting your pen when the aliens finally tell you, the Chosen One, the meaning of life. I tell them to think of the above approach as somewhat of an investment. Gives you more options. Going for FP from the start - getting Cs in undergrad. Going for derm from the start - getting As in undergrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspiring-curmudgeon Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Where can I find out about the relative competitiveness of the internal subspecialties (R4 match)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafield Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Where can I find out about the relative competitiveness of the internal subspecialties (R4 match)? http://www.carms.ca/eng/operations_R4reports_e.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafield Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I have the opposite viewpoint. Life is short, so enjoy it. If a person can be happy with family med, why drain oneself brown nosing people for several years, then struggling through half a decade of rigorous training when you don't have to? I completely agree. I don't think it's a bad idea to do some observerships/electives in the more competitive disciplines to see if you're blown away by one of them. In that case, it may be helpful to start doing what you can to become competitive early. However to spend years trying to be a uber-competitive by default doesn't appeal to me. Family medicine has a lot of attractive features and is extremely flexible in what you can actually do with it. That said, I'd probably be happiest in a mid-smaller sized town. If one is dead set on the big city and a competitive field, then gun away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 This will give a better picture of relative competitiveness of each specialty. The last column shows how many applicants chose each seat as their first choice discipline in 2011. Ophtho wins obviously. awwwww rads isn't that bad!!! This makes my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerena Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 awwwww rads isn't that bad!!! This makes my day. Not bad, Mac. I feel kinda said for neuropathology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I have the opposite viewpoint. Life is short, so enjoy it. If a person can be happy with family med, why drain oneself brown nosing people for several years, then struggling through half a decade of rigorous training when you don't have to? I completely agree. I don't think it's a bad idea to do some observerships/electives in the more competitive disciplines to see if you're blown away by one of them. In that case, it may be helpful to start doing what you can to become competitive early. However to spend years trying to be a uber-competitive by default doesn't appeal to me. Family medicine has a lot of attractive features and is extremely flexible in what you can actually do with it. That said, I'd probably be happiest in a mid-smaller sized town. If one is dead set on the big city and a competitive field, then gun away. lol this is ridiculously biased. according to bloh, every specialty but family requires that we "slave away" and "brown nose." you neglected to address the vast majority (75% in some schools) who do not want family as their 1st choice and would rather slave away and brown nose and many do not know it in preclerkship. we're all trying to figure out what we want. when we find out is up to the carms gods. the question is what do we do with our time while we're trying? some people will not like family medicine. period. a lot of students don't know until 3rd year what they want. some have an idea and turn out to be right, but many change their minds. at the same time, the competitive specialties almost require that you do research in your preclerkship years. obviously if you know what you want to do then go for it. brook's advice is for those who do not know and may not know until they're well into clerkship. while they're trying things out in preclerkship, it's best aim for higher competition and get projects started in the competitive specialties. if they realize they love family, great. convincing a family program that you've changed your mind (if you've done a family elective) is not hard. if they want to go for a more competitive specialty, it's a good thing they prepared. if everyone followed brook's advice, many will be safe. the risk? you lose 2 summers to charting patients or running westerns. if everyone followed bloh's advice, many will be ill-prepared come carms. the risk? your 1st choice career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Not bad, Mac. I feel kinda said for neuropathology... C me too I wonder what's so bad bout it... Seems like majority of the lifestyle ones (ROAD) really does have severe competition... Orthopeds. is pretty competitive too :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerena Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 awwwww rads isn't that bad!!! This makes my day. C me too I wonder what's so bad bout it... Seems like majority of the lifestyle ones (ROAD) really does have severe competition... Orthopeds. is pretty competitive too :S I was surprised about cardiac surgery. I thought it would be harder to match into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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