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And the 1st med student to get kicked out of U of T 2015 is...

AtomSmasherXVIII

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AtomSmasherXVIII Newbie

AtomSmasherXVIII

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Background:

 

- Government kills healthcare funding to refugees.

- Joe Oliver (minister of something) comes to a Toronto hospital to make a speech on radioisotope funding.

- Doctor interrupts Oliver during the speech to attack his party's decision to kill healthcare funding to refugees.

 

Although I don't agree with the doctor and the student, I respect their courage to stand up for what they believe in.

 

Anybody here know the student personally? If the student herself posts here, I would be interested in hearing about what is happening to you in retaliation for this. Feel free to register a new account to maintain the anonymity of your main forum account (if applicable).

 

Note that I haven't heard of the student actually being kicked out for this, but I'm betting that she's going to be slapped with "Unprofessional conduct" pretty soon.

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Larrivee Newbie

Larrivee

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Background:

 

- Government kills healthcare funding to refugees.

- Joe Oliver (minister of something) comes to a Toronto hospital to make a speech on radioisotope funding.

- Doctor interrupts Oliver during the speech to attack his party's decision to kill healthcare funding to refugees.

 

Although I don't agree with the doctor and the student, I respect their courage to stand up for what they believe in.

 

Anybody here know the student personally? If the student herself posts here, I would be interested in hearing about what is happening to you in retaliation for this. Feel free to register a new account to maintain the anonymity of your main forum account (if applicable).

 

Note that I haven't heard of the student actually being kicked out for this, but I'm betting that she's going to be slapped with "Unprofessional conduct" pretty soon.

 

Saw that earlier today. So proud of that doctor and student, I don't think I'd have the balls to do that, but it is something that needs to be said and publicized.

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1234 Newbie

1234

Posted
Posted

 

Background:

 

- Government kills healthcare funding to refugees.

- Joe Oliver (minister of something) comes to a Toronto hospital to make a speech on radioisotope funding.

- Doctor interrupts Oliver during the speech to attack his party's decision to kill healthcare funding to refugees.

 

Although I don't agree with the doctor and the student, I respect their courage to stand up for what they believe in.

 

Anybody here know the student personally? If the student herself posts here, I would be interested in hearing about what is happening to you in retaliation for this. Feel free to register a new account to maintain the anonymity of your main forum account (if applicable).

 

Note that I haven't heard of the student actually being kicked out for this, but I'm betting that she's going to be slapped with "Unprofessional conduct" pretty soon.

 

LOL. Kicked out? Will never happen unless UofT Faculty of Medicine would like a major lawsuit and massive negative publicity.

 

As for the "lapse in professionalism", who gives a crap. I went to UofT Medicine - people get major lapses all the time. In fact, its absolutely hilarious and arbitrary as to who and why people get lapses. You forget to sign in to a group task - minor lapse! Your supervisor has a bad day on eval day - major lapse!

 

I received 2 minors. I know people with 5 majors with no repercussions. You would need to have a massive number of lapses and would need to have written, verbal warning, meeting with Vice Dean of Professional Ethics, multiple panels. I know people with multiple meetings with the Vice Dean of Ethics with no repercussions. It is a purely internal process until past the end stage of Professionalism after which it can be put on your Dean's letter.

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1234 Newbie

1234

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yeah, they've got some stones lol

 

+1.

 

BTW, Is that Dr. Robert Bell? CEO and President of UHN?

 

If so, he was pretty amateurish in his ability to respond appropriately to the interruption. $800K down the drain.

 

"You ruined the announcement". QQ more. lol.

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DeeDoc Newbie

DeeDoc

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+1.

 

BTW, Is that Dr. Robert Bell? CEO and President of UHN?

 

If so, he was pretty amateurish in his ability to respond appropriately to the interruption. $800K down the drain.

 

"You ruined the announcement". QQ more. lol.

 

Lololololololol

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nosuperman Newbie

nosuperman

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I don't know enough about this issue to take a side - though the Minister's response (and lack thereof) leads me to believe his position isn't very strong. On the one hand - no, you don't want to reinforce this behaviour by allowing yourself to get hooked into impromptu debates. On the other hand - the Minister made himself look as though he had no good rebuttal.

 

If it is true that the government is ignoring the voices of, or refusing to even meet with, key interest groups affected by policy changes, then I'm glad to see people forcing the issue.

 

I think Canadians in general have a tendency towards apathy, to keep their mouths shut, complain about things online or at home where it doesn't do much, but not rock the boat too hard (Exception: Quebec). Doctors are generally further restricted by a duty to professionalism.

 

The degree to which the policy change is beneficial or detrimental, I don't know, but its important that key issues get brought up by the parties who are affected by them. Its important that politicians know that if they willfully ignore a particular population behind the scenes, that particular population will not ignore them when the cameras are rolling.

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apache Newbie

apache

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this stuff happens more often than people think, lol… i wont even explain it

 

professionalism is an umbrella term which restricts physicians who really, really, really, jacket of their back, give a **** from speaking out… especially if their solutions "make too much sense", essentially hard to discredit because the person is very sharp and has overwhelming empirical evidence behind their "new - at least here, not in the countries the evidence is from, it's usually like 30 year old practice there" idea… that unfortunately is contra to governmental or the medical lobbies interest, yet completely in patients interests.

 

also, the university doesn't have a chance... if the guy is good (and by good i mean willing to either hire the expensive lawyers necessary or put in the hundreds and hundreds of hours of research necessary to not only get reinstated, but win considerable economic damages) this is legal cakewalk.

 

p.s. people who call quebecois people whiners are just pussies who need to *****, so they can minimize the cognitive dissonance of being ripped off by the government everyday despite living in a "have" province while having to say pay quintuple tuition and also avoid feeling like theyre a complete peon ***** by maintaining the personal belief that they're people of action, stoic… when in reality they're slaves to the master morality (contra slave morality) yielding leaders of the nation… the us versus them mentality is ridiculous, lets act "ethical - an arbitrary construct derived by those who perpetuate structure your ends are suppose to replace - in attempting to subdue absolutely egregiously unethical policies… rephrase that as lets be complicit in unethical action, because it's ethically superior than using the same unethical means people who perpetuate the unethical policies, of which the ends of your action are meant to subdue… classic nietschze master and slave morality (think ancient greeks versus turn the other cheek christian morality (only followers, the catholic church for example kicks ass and takes names)).

 

think you can't do anything, go to a law library, you can do a lot once you realize almost all rules only exist for people who havent learned from experience that they only apply to people who believe they're absolute… life is like poker, everything's negotiable if you have the right cards.

 

if bill maher is swiss, im french

 

I think Canadians in general have a tendency towards apathy, to keep their mouths shut, complain about things online or at home where it doesn't do much, but not rock the boat too hard (Exception: Quebec). Doctors are generally further restricted by a duty to professionalism.

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apache Newbie

apache

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I would love a public domain to put someone like that on the spot, I'd love to just devour and humiliate them in such a polite, and friendly yet surreptitiously malevolent (I'm going to humiliate you to the point where you're pissing your pants and do it with a friendly smile, no ad hominems or overt confrontation, "just a level of preparation where half your answers are… well, what many would call an open mouth and upward right gaze.. with a, "I'll have to get more information on that and get back to you with a false token of thankfulness and need to work together in the future oriented body language and tone, response after 20 seconds of silence" way… a nice follow up is suggesting a specific date and time that works for them, you seem the consumate gentlemen, and all the agression is an undertone… but public theatre leaves everything on the record…. politics is theatre… polices are based on populism, you've go to give people someone they can get behind… and make your policies more palatable for politicians, because half the time they'd love to support you if you could give them a good reason too (public pressure with a chance to make them look responsive is a great one)... i think the last person to get this was the late jack layton.

 

Lololololololol
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ldnk Newbie

ldnk

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I would love a public domain to put someone like that on the spot, I'd love to just devour and humiliate them in such a polite, and friendly yet surreptitiously malevolent (I'm going to humiliate you to the point where you're pissing your pants and do it with a friendly smile, no ad hominems or overt confrontation, "just a level of preparation where half your answers are… well, what many would call an open mouth and upward right gaze.. with a, "I'll have to get more information on that and get back to you with a false token of thankfulness and need to work together in the future oriented body language and tone, response after 20 seconds of silence" way… a nice follow up is suggesting a specific date and time that works for them, you seem the consumate gentlemen, and all the agression is an undertone… but public theatre leaves everything on the record…. politics is theatre… polices are based on populism, you've go to give people someone they can get behind… and make your policies more palatable for politicians, because half the time they'd love to support you if you could give them a good reason too (public pressure with a chance to make them look responsive is a great one)... i think the last person to get this was the late jack layton.

 

 

I always find it ironic that some of the talk from the Ministries is that we need to rein in the roles of Doctors but we have have one uneducated (in terms of health care management) individual making unilateral decisions. And then we can have Immigration ministers outright lying about the workings of the health care system as if this isn't the age of the internet where a 30 second fact-seeking search exposes their fallacy.

 

There is zero accountability for the outright incompetence of many of the Ministers.

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