rmorelan Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 So, I'm taking a public health course this summer, as that's a major interest of mine (both in nutrition and in medicine). It's an online course, and we've already had some discussions. It's sad to see some of the attitudes that some of these students have towards modern medicine, and they seem to think that "natural" always means "better." *sigh* I'm definitely going to have to censor my typing, so I don't start ranting about the scientific method, and how natural doesn't mean it is good for you, etc. Are too many antibiotics and hormones used in mass food production? Yep. That's one of the reasons I buy from local producers and farmer's markets. But that doesn't mean that antibiotics and hormones don't have their uses in medicine! Okay, rant over. I say rant away - part of the problem is we are far too timid in our response to unscientific and dangerous approaches to medicine. Children have died is response to our inability to explain why vaccination for instance works. More will die if we don't figure out how to do it better. People seem to be blind that "nature" products are big, big business as well - they are no less willing to do deceptive advertising than the very people they are pointing figures at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 So, I'm taking a public health course this summer, as that's a major interest of mine (both in nutrition and in medicine). It's an online course, and we've already had some discussions. It's sad to see some of the attitudes that some of these students have towards modern medicine, and they seem to think that "natural" always means "better." *sigh* I'm definitely going to have to censor my typing, so I don't start ranting about the scientific method, and how natural doesn't mean it is good for you, etc. Are too many antibiotics and hormones used in mass food production? Yep. That's one of the reasons I buy from local producers and farmer's markets. But that doesn't mean that antibiotics and hormones don't have their uses in medicine! Okay, rant over. Post these pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroPreMed Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Post these pics Some interesting numbers there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 So, I'm taking a public health course this summer, as that's a major interest of mine (both in nutrition and in medicine). It's an online course, and we've already had some discussions. It's sad to see some of the attitudes that some of these students have towards modern medicine, and they seem to think that "natural" always means "better." *sigh* I'm definitely going to have to censor my typing, so I don't start ranting about the scientific method, and how natural doesn't mean it is good for you, etc. Are too many antibiotics and hormones used in mass food production? Yep. That's one of the reasons I buy from local producers and farmer's markets. But that doesn't mean that antibiotics and hormones don't have their uses in medicine! Okay, rant over. Belladonna is natural. Cone snail venom is natural. Lions are natural. All quite dangerous. It's such a simple concept to discount and it frustrates me that people become so against modernity when it comes to medicine even though they embrace it in every other aspect of their lives. While I'm a big proponent of looking to nature for medicine - and I mean actual, testable medicines like aspirin and opioids and rapamycin and so many others along with healthy diet and activities which themselves are great preventatives - the fallacy of natural supremacy bothers me a lot. It's 'natural' for a huge proportion of children to die before they reach age five, and we have modern medicine to thank for the fact that it is no longer the case. I highly recommend sciencebasedmedicine.org for everyone here to read. They do a great deal of dissecting of quackery. Wonderful site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutritionRunner Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I say rant away - part of the problem is we are far too timid in our response to unscientific and dangerous approaches to medicine. Children have died is response to our inability to explain why vaccination for instance works. More will die if we don't figure out how to do it better. People seem to be blind that "nature" products are big, big business as well - they are no less willing to do deceptive advertising than the very people they are pointing figures at. *nod* I'm just going to have to refrain from calling people idiots or conspiracy theorists. I did post a lovely article on public health that I hope (but don't expect) people read. Aaron, thanks for those! Definitely downloading them for future use (especially when we get to the vaccination unit of the course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Post these pics The thing is that those who are very against vaccines (I know a lot of them) do not believe those numbers. The people who pit pseudoscience against reality come up with their own explanations; that cleanliness and food security are the reason those diseases have seen such huge reductions, that there's an epidemic of X (autism, cancer, neurological disease, mental illness, ADHD, whatever is the bogeyman du jour) that is caused instead by the vaccines, that the historical death rates are inflated etc, etc. Or they point to the rare actual reactions to vaccines (which do exist, that can't be ignored. Tylenol kills more people per year in the US than vaccine reactions kill worldwide annually, but the risk of vaccines is not 0. It's close to 0, but still not 0) and say that because those diseases are so rare in developed countries now, the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. Or they say that the disease isn't *that* dangerous and it's just 'big pharma' trying to poison people for profit. It's very frustrating arguing with them. There are many, many you will never convince no matter how logical, how verifiable, how true your arguments. They are convinced that modern medicine has it out for them and they throw themselves into the arms of snake oil salespeople who point accusing fingers at doctors with one hand while reaching into the pockets of the worried with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutritionRunner Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Belladonna is natural. Cone snail venom is natural. Lions are natural. All quite dangerous. It's such a simple concept to discount and it frustrates me that people become so against modernity when it comes to medicine even though they embrace it in every other aspect of their lives. While I'm a big proponent of looking to nature for medicine - and I mean actual, testable medicines like aspirin and opioids and rapamycin and so many others along with healthy diet and activities which themselves are great preventatives - the fallacy of natural supremacy bothers me a lot. It's 'natural' for a huge proportion of children to die before they reach age five, and we have modern medicine to thank for the fact that it is no longer the case. I highly recommend sciencebasedmedicine.org for everyone here to read. They do a great deal of dissecting of quackery. Wonderful site. Exactly! I mean, I'm a huge advocate for healthy eating and physical activity - that's why I'm studying dietetics and why I'm a group fitness instructor. If someone can control their type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise, that is far superior to taking insulin-sensitizing agents, insulin secretagogues or insulin itself. But for those who need it, those medications will have a huge impact on their health and quality of life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Exactly! I mean, I'm a huge advocate for healthy eating and physical activity - that's why I'm studying dietetics and why I'm a group fitness instructor. If someone can control their type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise, that is far superior to taking insulin-sensitizing agents, insulin secretagogues or insulin itself. But for those who need it, those medications will have a huge impact on their health and quality of life! As someone who takes glucophage for non-diabetes reasons, I can say that adapting one's diet is way easier thing than dealing with the side effects of this drug. Haaaaaaaate glucophage, but it helps with my issue. I have no idea why anyone would opt to take this if it were avoidable. -.-' I'm glad to see science-minded people like you going into nutrition and hopefully medicine. The field of nutrition seems to be being gradually pulled into the realm of CAM because doctors don't seem to get much education on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokiki Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 So, I'm taking a public health course this summer, as that's a major interest of mine (both in nutrition and in medicine). It's an online course, and we've already had some discussions. It's sad to see some of the attitudes that some of these students have towards modern medicine, and they seem to think that "natural" always means "better." *sigh* I'm definitely going to have to censor my typing, so I don't start ranting about the scientific method, and how natural doesn't mean it is good for you, etc. Are too many antibiotics and hormones used in mass food production? Yep. That's one of the reasons I buy from local producers and farmer's markets. But that doesn't mean that antibiotics and hormones don't have their uses in medicine! Okay, rant over. Which course? Just curious because I take a lot of online courses. If you can make it one of your goals to provide a bit of education, it will fare you well, IMO. What I have found works best is being tolerant and understanding at first, not going for the jugular right away. BUT stick to your principles. I suspect you know that anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutritionRunner Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 As someone who takes glucophage for non-diabetes reasons, I can say that adapting one's diet is way easier thing than dealing with the side effects of this drug. Haaaaaaaate glucophage, but it helps with my issue. I have no idea why anyone would opt to take this if it were avoidable. -.-' I'm glad to see science-minded people like you going into nutrition and hopefully medicine. The field of nutrition seems to be being gradually pulled into the realm of CAM because doctors don't seem to get much education on it. Well here in Ontario, there is a huge push to incorporate dietetics into primary practice. One of the professors in our department here in Guelph has been one of the leaders from the dietetics side of things. Registered dietitians are now incorporated into family health teams: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/fht/ It's slow work, but at least in Ontario, the government is realizing that they can save health care dollars by having physicians, nurse practitioners, nurses, social workers, dietitians, and in some locations, pharmacists, all working together in one location, especially when it comes to the care and treatment of many chronic diseases. Hopefully these types of programs will continue to expand. On the other hand, you do have the "nutritionists" out there (not registered dietitians - sadly anyone can call themselves a nutritionist) who are more about the complementary and alternative health solutions, and who tend to confuse the public. After all, many people don't know the difference between a dietitian and a nutritionist. So it gives the whole field of nutrition a bit of a bad reputation. Then you also have some nutrition graduates going into programs like naturopathy and chiropractic. I understand some of the appeal of CAM - I'd rather use diet, exercise, and other lifestyle changes to manage or cure a health problem. But that's simply not always possible. When lifestyle changes can't help a problem, or aren't sufficient to help a problem, I'm very, very glad for "Western" or "conventional" medicine. I'd be a mess without my daily thryoid hormone after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutritionRunner Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Which course? Just curious because I take a lot of online courses. If you can make it one of your goals to provide a bit of education, it will fare you well, IMO. What I have found works best is being tolerant and understanding at first, not going for the jugular right away. BUT stick to your principles. I suspect you know that anyways. *nod* but the reminder is always good. Especially when people push all my buttons! Course is: Issues in Public Health (ASCI*3200DE) at Guelph http://www.open.uoguelph.ca/offerings/offering.aspx?hold=y&id=4242 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmch Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Having a serious mental paranoid crisis where I'm doubting that I got into any med schools - looking at paperwork to refuse one offer but wondering if maybe I just imagined the first offer to start. ... Definitely losing my mind, and I haven't even started Med1 yet. If I was even accepted. Wonder if it would be frowned upon to call the schools up and be like "For real?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 That is exactly what I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmch Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Pre-med paranoia at its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Having a serious mental paranoid crisis where I'm doubting that I got into any med schools - looking at paperwork to refuse one offer but wondering if maybe I just imagined the first offer to start. ... Definitely losing my mind, and I haven't even started Med1 yet. If I was even accepted. Wonder if it would be frowned upon to call the schools up and be like "For real?" you know that is actually very common - you fight so long it is actually hard to let it go and just accept you won. There are always some lingering thoughts/feelings that you missed something and some one is going to pull out the rug. In time it will pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Having a serious mental paranoid crisis where I'm doubting that I got into any med schools - looking at paperwork to refuse one offer but wondering if maybe I just imagined the first offer to start. ... Definitely losing my mind, and I haven't even started Med1 yet. If I was even accepted. Wonder if it would be frowned upon to call the schools up and be like "For real?" Be sure to frame the question in appropriate slang: fo realz, yo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 My excuse in calling is that it was in French and I couldn't believe I was reading it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmch Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 you know that is actually very common - you fight so long it is actually hard to let it go and just accept you won. There are always some lingering thoughts/feelings that you missed something and some one is going to pull out the rug. In time it will pass Gonna get to the first day of class and be like "HI GUYS!! :D" and adcom will be like "HAHA, can't believe that foolish girl fell for it." Be sure to frame the question in appropriate slang: fo realz, yo? "Straight up? Fo' realz? Daaaaamn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Banks and very big numbers are on my mind!! I am just processing my final banking steps before residency so I am in the same boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Zeros on the right have meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 True, and then the colour of that total number can evoke either a big frown or an upside down one. ha - I have said if before but the LOC system is one reason I really like Canada - no matter what your families background you can afford to go to medical school if you get in. That is an amazing gift not found down south. We are quite lucky overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 ha - I have said if before but the LOC system is one reason I really like Canada - no matter what your families background you can afford to go to medical school if you get in. That is an amazing gift not found down south. We are quite lucky overall. I agree 100%. Just don't drop out half way through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 I agree 100%. Just don't drop out half way through Failure is never an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Gonna get to the first day of class and be like "HI GUYS!! :D" and adcom will be like "HAHA, can't believe that foolish girl fell for it." "Straight up? Fo' realz? Daaaaamn". Still a few years away for me, but I know I'll be doing the exact same thing when I finally get in. But you're in. You earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Trying to internally break my Samsung S3 so I can trade it in for the new Blackberry Q10. Water seems to be my best friend in this endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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