lostsoulofpeace Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I don't know that it's harder - I think it's just different. For one thing, generally you are only taking one subject at a time, versus four or five. Big exams are more frequent, but since the curriculum is pass/fail, the exact mark doesn't matter as much, so there is more self-direction in terms of learning for your career versus learning for the exam. My knee jerk response is to say that I found medical school (preclerkship, anyway) to be easier - but I think that I just found it a lot more satisfying, so learning and studying seemed like less of a burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I don't know that it's harder - I think it's just different. For one thing, generally you are only taking one subject at a time, versus four or five. Big exams are more frequent, but since the curriculum is pass/fail, the exact mark doesn't matter as much, so there is more self-direction in terms of learning for your career versus learning for the exam. My knee jerk response is to say that I found medical school (preclerkship, anyway) to be easier - but I think that I just found it a lot more satisfying, so learning and studying seemed like less of a burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1b1 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Like ellorie said, its different. In undergrad I was constantly focused on getting A+ and was always pushing myself to achieve the best grade that I could. In med school, my main goal is to understand the material to the best of my abilities. The major change I would say is that you are studying for a different reason, you are studying to be a competant physician, where as in undergrad you study to get into med. Also the courses are more interesting, you are actually studying what you like, so it doesent feel like a drag. Also, the volume of material you have to learn is much greater. As far as memorization goes, i found it to be less than undergrad. Sure you have to memorize a few things here and there, but your main focus will be on understanding the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr-m-s Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 wait, so there is no grading in medschool? so how do people become competitive for residency programs afterwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 The volume is greater for sure - you have to keep on top of things from the beginning rather than being able to cram and catch up right before a big exam. The way our curriculum is structured is by system - so we do cardiovascular for 6 weeks, then have an exam, then do respirology for 6 weeks - etc. And then during that block we will learn the anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, all together. Not all schools are structured in that way, but many are. It works very well for my learning style and less well for others. I think that I did do a lot of memorizing - but it was memorizing in the context of understanding, rather than memorizing random facts. So you memorize drug names and actions and receptors and then you learn how to use the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Competitiveness for residency is more about reference letters and electives. Unless you outright fail something, nobody will know if your average was a 60 or a 90 except you and your school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Octavius Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I am assuming this varies among medical schools, but what is the grade/percentage need to pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nino Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I am assuming this varies among medical schools, but what is the grade/percentage need to pass? 70% at UofT, but apparently it's not a hard cut-off. People say that they will be lenient even if you get something like 68. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr-m-s Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Competitiveness for residency is more about reference letters and electives. Unless you outright fail something, nobody will know if your average was a 60 or a 90 except you and your school. So the residency programs wont even know if your grade was a 60 or a 90? wow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Octavius Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 70% at UofT, but apparently it's not a hard cut-off. People say that they will be lenient even if you get something like 68. Competitiveness for residency is more about reference letters and electives. Unless you outright fail something, nobody will know if your average was a 60 or a 90 except you and your school. So if UofT is a 70 and it has been suggested that a 60 is acceptable elsewhere, what schools accept this lower cutoff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroPreMed Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 UBC is 60 I believe. Maybe 65 but one of the 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 UWO is a 60. The other thing is that some schools report failures on your MSPR and some do not. UWO does. I believe that U of T does not - or so we have been told by our Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 The point is that preclerkship isn't what makes you competitive for residency. Mostly everyone passes everything. Schools are pretty invested in keeping you in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alabaster Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Manitoba is 60. Any fails go on your letter and under 65 nets you a meeting with the dean, but that doesn't mean much in the long run. In terms of the original question, I spend more time on school than I did on undergrad, but memorization of arbitrary facts is much less important. When the rare question comes up about a random fact I laugh, guess, and move on. Residency competitiveness (from what I understand, bearing in mind that I'm only in Med-2): Slightly helpful: -Student leadership (some residencies, as I understand, care about this a lot while others won't care at all) -What you do with your summers (research, exposures, other programs, etc.) Very helpful: -Performance in clerkship -What electives you do (if you are trying to get into a competitive specialty, you should probably be doing a decent block of your electives in that specialty to show your interest) -Interview performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchEnemy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 UWO is a 60. The other thing is that some schools report failures on your MSPR and some do not. UWO does. I believe that U of T does not - or so we have been told by our Dean. At UofT, if you fail a midterm/exam, you are given a chance to rewrite it in the summer. If you fail the summer one, the grade will then go on the transcript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Octavius Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 At UofT, if you fail a midterm/exam, you are given a chance to rewrite it in the summer. If you fail the summer one, the grade will then go on the transcript. From what you've heard, are these summer retakes easier, more difficult, or the same level of difficulty? (ie. A shorter exam covering more fundamental concepts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACHQ Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 At UofT, if you fail a midterm/exam, you are given a chance to rewrite it in the summer. If you fail the summer one, the grade will then go on the transcript. Apparently if you fail the summer rewrite they usually just make you sit through some more remediation (classes, labs if anatomy, etc...) and then you write another test. UofT is weird in that they have a clear pass (which is >70) and a clear fail (which is <60), anything between 60-70 can be a pass vs remediation (rewrite), which is held on a case by case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 So the residency programs wont even know if your grade was a 60 or a 90?wow.. I'll just note that although preclerkship is pass/fail, part of clerkship evaluations is the student's knowledge base, and there are often comments to that effect, so there is some sense of who excelled at their studies and who scraped by. The other distinguishing factor would be any academic awards that are given out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Competitiveness for residency is more about reference letters and electives. Unless you outright fail something, nobody will know if your average was a 60 or a 90 except you and your school. The point is that preclerkship isn't what makes you competitive for residency. Mostly everyone passes everything. Schools are pretty invested in keeping you in. I disagree with this, especially the bolded point. Preclerkship is where you build your knowledgebase so you can impress your residents and staff in clerkship. Your knowledge plays a big part in your 'performance.' If you got by with 60s, it will be painfully obvious to everyone who evaluates you and you won't get the letters or evals you need to match to your top choice programs. Residents also speak openly to each other behind closed doors about the strong, weak, annoying, or superstar medical students on their service. Word gets around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugacity Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Can confirm UBC is 60% to pass. But don't dwell on the number too much: it's the difficulty of the exam that matters, and the vast majority of people pass. I feel like most people are not scared to fail, but are terrified of not being prepared for clerkship, just like tooty said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellorie Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Okay, I misspoke. What I meant is that your numerical exam marks in pre-clerkship are not what makes you competitive for residency. Obviously if you don't bother to learn anything, people are going to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpy Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I think that despite the P/F system most people perform relatively similarly to how they did in undergrad. In preclerkship at Queen's a fail is <60% and 60-65 nets you several meetings and puts you on the administration's radar. That said, the average on exams tends to be around 80% which is still quite high. Where I'm going with this is I think the pressure comes off a bit, but people still have the internal drive to do well. So although I found there to be more volume of material, the pressure to do exceedingly well dropped. So I found things easier than undergrad as a result. Clerkship is a whole different beast though. I suspect there are people out there who do find it easier than undergrad, I find it way more challenging. This is because I have far less free time than I'm used to and because I feel the pressure to do well is back in full force. That said, it's a way more enjoyable experience than sitting in the classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojoluvsu2 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I agree with most of what has been said. I find it easier as it is a P/F system with pass ranging from 60-70 for most schools so I am not busting my ass to get >85s in everything. That allows me to really learn and understand the material rather than trying to memorize random facts that would push me into that >85 range. However, most (all?) med students have the personality to not half ass anything so a 60-70% will not be satisfying. Our class averages are ~80%. Marks on their own don't matter for residency but as was mentioned you need a solid knowledge base going into clerkships/electives to really make a good impression. Knowing only 60% of the material will likely be obvious, but it matters more to know how to apply the knowledge. A walking textbook who gets 95% but can't talk to a patient or critically apply their knowledge will look just as foolish as someone who doesn't know their background anatomy and physiology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markov79 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I disagree with this, especially the bolded point. Preclerkship is where you build your knowledgebase so you can impress your residents and staff in clerkship. Your knowledge plays a big part in your 'performance.' If you got by with 60s, it will be painfully obvious to everyone who evaluates you and you won't get the letters or evals you need to match to your top choice programs. Residents also speak openly to each other behind closed doors about the strong, weak, annoying, or superstar medical students on their service. Word gets around. word definitely does - and that word often travels to staff as well. and just to reinforce it is often the more "practical knowledge" in clerkship that comes up - at least at first. I mean not all diseases are equally common of course. If you are going into CTU and know how to id and treat first and foremost the common things and thus be helpful you can advance a lot faster because you are useful. It is amazing how many people you run into that can quote obscure facts about very, very rare autoimmune disease but don't know how to say treat an ear infection. You have to know the fundamentals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.