canucks_14 Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Hi, I am still in undergrad but I hope to become a cardiac surgeon or neurosurgeon. I am interested in practicing in the US for a few reasons (mainly because I love US culture and I've heard the salaries can be substantially higher). However, I have not ruled out practicing in a major Canadian city either. So what I am wondering, is going to a Canadian med school going to put me at a disadvantage for applying to top tier residency positions in the US, and also applying for jobs in the US? In my mind I believe that Canadian schools are top notch, so it really wouldn't affect me, but I just wanted to get some info from others. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Either way your at some disadvantage, so just focus on getting into a Canadian school first. Canadian schools would be the path of least resistance in some ways but longer in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderadama Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'd honestly ask that question once I applied. Depending on your stats, you'll know where you have a good shot at (both Canada and US) and out of the schools you interview at/are accepted at, you can choose the best school from that list. Also keep in mind that some Canadian med schools have a better known reputation in the US (McGill and UofT probably) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 save yourself a hundred grand and go to school in Canada if you can..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_14 Posted June 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 save yourself a hundred grand and go to school in Canada if you can..... If the rumours are true, I could make that within a few months of landing a much higher paid US position. Thanks for all of the input everyone! I know it's a long ways away, but I just like to get an idea of this because I want to have a better idea as to whether I'd be in Canada or the US for a significant amount of time, as I would love to practice in both, but am not sure the logistics of moving to the US for practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 ...mainly because I love US culture... I'm sure you've thought of this, but US culture surrounding medicine is much different than the general culture and, depending on the specialty, quite a bit different than Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_14 Posted June 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'm sure you've thought of this, but US culture surrounding medicine is much different than the general culture and, depending on the specialty, quite a bit different than Canada. Yeah I'm aware of the pay for service/health insurance issues in the US, however I'm not really sure about how things differ aside from that. It's a topic I don't know much about, and I kind of just thought that at the end of the day you're still helping people in pretty much the same way. If this isn't really the case, do you have any good resources to get a better picture of how health works down there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Lol US pay isn't as significantly more as you think, and you deal with a lot more problems with insurance, liabilities, and all those extra costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_14 Posted June 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Lol US pay isn't as significantly more as you think, and you deal with a lot more problems with insurance, liabilities, and all those extra costs But is there not a much higher ceiling in the US? Maybe the averages or medians aren't that different, but the potential to make big money is there? That's just my perception of it. I don't actually know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organomegaly Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 US culture mmm...malpractice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shikimate Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I've read that for some surgical specialties such as nsx, plastics and ortho certification in Canada will no longer be recognized in US due to changes in their residency curriculum, you may wish to verify this prior to deciding where to persue residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Yeah I'm aware of the pay for service/health insurance issues in the US, however I'm not really sure about how things differ aside from that. It's a topic I don't know much about, and I kind of just thought that at the end of the day you're still helping people in pretty much the same way. If this isn't really the case, do you have any good resources to get a better picture of how health works down there? mmm...malpractice Exactly. Yes, you're helping people in a similar way, but I know many US doctors and a common issue is that there's an underlying feeling that you'll be sued at any moment. I don't know of many Canadian doctors who feel the same way. However, this is only based on my own experiences and discussions with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 But is there not a much higher ceiling in the US? Maybe the averages or medians aren't that different, but the potential to make big money is there? That's just my perception of it. I don't actually know. Perhaps, no idea, but the extra costs at play and headaches that cost time and money at play are of significant importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oshaku Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 my friend's dad is a Canadian (Mcmaster's) trained OB/GYN (call him Dr. J) who, after residency, moved to the states to practice almost 20 years ago. As a personal note, it's amazing how different my friend's perception of healthcare (american) is from mine (canadian). Some info about practicing in the states: liability - is a huge factor. The house, cars and anything of great monetary value is owned by Dr. J's wife (who is a housewife). They did it that way so that if Dr.J gets sued for medical malpractice, they would divorce and have all the property go to the wife so that it cannot be taken away by the malpractice suit. money - Dr. J makes a lot of money. He has his own clinic, seeing between 30-40 patients a day plus one day a week at the OR in a nearby hospital. His clinic rakes in about 1.2 million/year. This is only revenue. Once you take away operating expenses, salaries etc. the take home is much less (though still quite high). I don't know the exact number, but it's >400k. insurance - For the majority of doctors, a lot of their time is spent on the filing the paperwork for insurance. In Dr. J's clinic, insurance is a full time job for one of his secretaries. Apparently medicaid and medicare are a pain, so much so that when he used to accept it, he had to hire a new secretary to work only on medicaid/medicare paperwork (which are a small minority of his patients). I think that was a big reason for him to stop accepting those patients. I also think that the guilt of turning away medicaid/medicare patients is why he volunteers one day a week at a women's shelter. moving to the states - wasn't that hard as a canadian trained doctor 20 years ago. Doctors from the hospital where he works now came to recruit him when he finished residency. He is now desperately trying to get back to canada. It doesn't help that Dr. J practices in the deep south, where recent events (gay marriage, ACA, confederate flag) have sent the region to a having a hissy fit. types of patients - The US have slightly different major healthcare problems than Canada. There are now more americans who are obese than overweight. Dr. J started a weight loss clinic as part of his practice because he got tired of delivering babies from obese mothers. Tied in to the way the insurance work in the states, some patients won't even go to the hospital unless they are in critical condition (because otherwise insurance won't pay for it). You're patients may be sicker and fragile by the time you work on them, which increase complication rates for a surgeon, and may lead to getting more pissed off patients/family who want to sue you for malpractice. OP, have you thought about why doctors in the states make so much money? It's all tied to how the insurance and how healthcare system works (people pay premiums for healthcare insurance, hospitals and doctors make their money by billing the insurance company the max amount, insurance company raise premiums to make up for losses, people either pay the increase or can't afford insurance anymore and become uninsured) I think america's starting to recognize the model doesn't work. With the new healthcare act, doctors are get paid less. By the time you are ready to practice (in 10+ years for your specialties), the landscape may change again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 my friend's dad is a Canadian (Mcmaster's) trained OB/GYN (call him Dr. J) who, after residency, moved to the states to practice almost 20 years ago. As a personal note, it's amazing how different my friend's perception of healthcare (american) is from mine (canadian). Some info about practicing in the states: liability - is a huge factor. The house, cars and anything of great monetary value is owned by Dr. J's wife (who is a housewife). They did it that way so that if Dr.J gets sued for medical malpractice, they would divorce and have all the property go to the wife so that it cannot be taken away by the malpractice suit. money - Dr. J makes a lot of money. He has his own clinic, seeing between 30-40 patients a day plus one day a week at the OR in a nearby hospital. His clinic rakes in about 1.2 million/year. This is only revenue. Once you take away operating expenses, salaries etc. the take home is much less (though still quite high). I don't know the exact number, but it's >400k. insurance - For the majority of doctors, a lot of their time is spent on the filing the paperwork for insurance. In Dr. J's clinic, insurance is a full time job for one of his secretaries. Apparently medicaid and medicare are a pain, so much so that when he used to accept it, he had to hire a new secretary to work only on medicaid/medicare paperwork (which are a small minority of his patients). I think that was a big reason for him to stop accepting those patients. I also think that the guilt of turning away medicaid/medicare patients is why he volunteers one day a week at a women's shelter. moving to the states - wasn't that hard as a canadian trained doctor 20 years ago. Doctors from the hospital where he works now came to recruit him when he finished residency. He is now desperately trying to get back to canada. It doesn't help that Dr. J practices in the deep south, where recent events (gay marriage, ACA, confederate flag) have sent the region to a having a hissy fit. types of patients - The US have slightly different major healthcare problems than Canada. There are now more americans who are obese than overweight. Dr. J started a weight loss clinic as part of his practice because he got tired of delivering babies from obese mothers. Tied in to the way the insurance work in the states, some patients won't even go to the hospital unless they are in critical condition (because otherwise insurance won't pay for it). You're patients may be sicker and fragile by the time you work on them, which increase complication rates for a surgeon, and may lead to getting more pissed off patients/family who want to sue you for malpractice. OP, have you thought about why doctors in the states make so much money? It's all tied to how the insurance and how healthcare system works (people pay premiums for healthcare insurance, hospitals and doctors make their money by billing the insurance company the max amount, insurance company raise premiums to make up for losses, people either pay the increase or can't afford insurance anymore and become uninsured) I think america's starting to recognize the model doesn't work. With the new healthcare act, doctors are get paid less. By the time you are ready to practice (in 10+ years for your specialties), the landscape may change again. I know OB has some of the highest malpractice premiums, but I wonder if its that bad for other specialties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_14 Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I've read that for some surgical specialties such as nsx, plastics and ortho certification in Canada will no longer be recognized in US due to changes in their residency curriculum, you may wish to verify this prior to deciding where to persue residency. Can anyone point me in the direction of some resources on these proposed changes and what the process is for a canadian med grad to practice in the US? Particularly for neurosurgery. I guess doing an american residency may be the only option now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermviser Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Can anyone point me in the direction of some resources on these proposed changes and what the process is for a canadian med grad to practice in the US? Particularly for neurosurgery. I guess doing an american residency may be the only option now? GL getting accepted to a competitive US residency with IMG Canadian status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 We're currently living in the US while my husband completes his 2nd fellowship. I unfortunately am unable to work as I did not pursue my license to practice as it wasn't worth if for only a year. He hates working in the US. We are socialists and believe in socialized medicine, and he has treated kiddos turned away from the major academic hospital because they were on medicaid. Living in the US makes us appreciate how much of a capitalistic society it really is. If you are into capitalism, you will do just fine down here. We are counting the days until we can head back to Canada... If you do end up attending medical school in Canada but hope to practice in the US, make sure you do all 3 steps of the USMLEs as you go as opposed to leaving them until the end and having to relearn everything. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 GL getting accepted to a competitive US residency with IMG Canadian status My husband's cousin matched to urology at a major teaching hospital in the midwest. It can be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amichel Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 We're currently living in the US while my husband completes his 2nd fellowship. I unfortunately am unable to work as I did not pursue my license to practice as it wasn't worth if for only a year. He hates working in the US. We are socialists and believe in socialized medicine, and he has treated kiddos turned away from the major academic hospital because they were on medicaid. Living in the US makes us appreciate how much of a capitalistic society it really is. If you are into capitalism, you will do just fine down here. We are counting the days until we can head back to Canada... If you do end up attending medical school in Canada but hope to practice in the US, make sure you do all 3 steps of the USMLEs as you go as opposed to leaving them until the end and having to relearn everything. Good luck! Pediatrics in the states would slowly kill me. No idea how people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermviser Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 My husband's cousin matched to urology at a major teaching hospital in the midwest. It can be done! impressive! But within the past 10-15 years? He get J1 or H1B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3change Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Wait is Canadian MD IMG in the US? The US is single stream for their residency applications, so the USMG/IMG distinction matters more at a program level than at a system level like it does in Canada. We're accredited by the same body as the US schools, so just as USMDs are as close as you can get to being a CMG, CMGs are about as close as you can get to being a USMD outside the US. Still, the main challenges for Canadian MDs trying to match to the US aren't due to our MD status (IMG/not IMG), but rather having the USMLEs written and getting an appropriate visa to practice there. Not many CMGs even try to go to the US for residency, so it's tough to draw any sweeping statements on that front - too many individual considerations - but generally speaking, a CMG dead-set on going to the US has a good shot at it, with a reasonable chance at high-end programs (depending on Step scores). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermviser Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Biggest problem is the visa, especially if you want the H1B, which if you don't get, is a huge headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3change Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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