rmorelan Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 But it does. Because SO many people now have indistinguishable GPAs that on paper are competitive, more people simply write the test believing they have a chance at medical school. Historically the MCAT measured a sort of IQ- linked propensity to become a good doctor - it was less predicated on hard work over several years and more on raw skill. Historically the GPA measured one's combined ability to work hard over a long period of time combined with some innate talent. Both Hard Work and Innate ability were considered important to do medicine - and both the GPA and MCAT could be used to pick good candidates measuring somewhat different things. The fact that the upper roof of GPA remains a 4.0, and the lower floor for the average student keeps rising rapidly - means that GPA has become more and more meaningless. There are actually some very average students (Even when it comes to work ethic) getting very high GPAs these days - as standards in many degree programs are lowered. If we are to give everyone with a 3.8 at least some chance for medical shool - (there are thousands of students with this minimum GPA) - all we have is MCAT left to differentiate them. But now we have tons of GPA eligible students writing the MCAT, when in the past, the lazier students simply would never have written the MCAT because they GPA would have been too poor. And some of these lazy students are bright - and by that virtue, we have more top MCAT scores applying. Heck - EVEN if the lazy students weren't that smart - by simply having MORE people write the MCAT and apply, the number of people with high scores goes up, even if the test is standardized. It also doesn't help that students now routinely write the MCAT multiple times with no penalty (at least in Canada) for doing so. interesting - that should mean (since most schools require the mcat) we should see more and more applicants as the GPA rises - being that it is just a numbers game (only 5% of the takers of the mcat will get 95% CARS score as an example that lines up with what Western wants to see). Not sure I am seeing a continuous rise in the number of applicants although there are a lot of factors at play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indefatigable Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 interesting - that should mean (since most schools require the mcat) we should see more and more applicants as the GPA rises - being that it is just a numbers game (only 5% of the takers of the mcat will get 95% CARS score as an example that lines up with what Western wants to see). Not sure I am seeing a continuous rise in the number of applicants although there are a lot of factors at play. The number of applicants to Ontario med schools is publicly available: http://www.ouac.on.ca/statistics/med_app_stats/ There has been a significant increase in the number of applications, but not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbluesky Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indefatigable Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 What? Wasn't it a 3.96 for the 2014/2015 cycle? 3.96 = 4.0 rounded - not 4.00 Maybe soon though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardDegrasseSagan Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hey I got a 125 in VR and still got an interview at Queen's today! So chin up and keep trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morinphen Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hey I got a 125 in VR and still got an interview at Queen's today! So chin up and keep trying! Congrats man =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardDegrasseSagan Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Congrats man =) Thanks man! By the way, don't be discouraged by your age. I am 26 - took time off from UG and took 2 extra years as well. It's important to keep very motivated in your pursuit of medicine, but also make sure that this doesn't become the defining feature of your life. You have to lead a balanced life, building hobbies/passions along the way. If you don't, you may get lost when you reach your goal. As an example, my brother worked his ass off for 4 UG years and 2 years of masters to get into professional school. That was his ultimate main goal. When he got there, he realized that he had given up many of the things that defined him in the process (hobbies, passions etc.) and it was a very tough adjustment for him. In fact, I don't ever think he fully adjusted after that. So don't be discouraged that you're not in medical school already. Take this as an opportunity to enjoy life and achieve personal growth. Best of luck man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacetate Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 But it does. Because SO many people now have indistinguishable GPAs that on paper are competitive, more people simply write the test believing they have a chance at medical school. Historically the MCAT measured a sort of IQ- linked propensity to become a good doctor - it was less predicated on hard work over several years and more on raw skill. Historically the GPA measured one's combined ability to work hard over a long period of time combined with some innate talent. Both Hard Work and Innate ability were considered important to do medicine - and both the GPA and MCAT could be used to pick good candidates measuring somewhat different things. The fact that the upper roof of GPA remains a 4.0, and the lower floor for the average student keeps rising rapidly - means that GPA has become more and more meaningless. There are actually some very average students (Even when it comes to work ethic) getting very high GPAs these days - as standards in many degree programs are lowered. If we are to give everyone with a 3.8 at least some chance for medical shool - (there are thousands of students with this minimum GPA) - all we have is MCAT left to differentiate them. But now we have tons of GPA eligible students writing the MCAT, when in the past, the lazier students simply would never have written the MCAT because they GPA would have been too poor. And some of these lazy students are bright - and by that virtue, we have more top MCAT scores applying. Heck - EVEN if the lazy students weren't that smart - by simply having MORE people write the MCAT and apply, the number of people with high scores goes up, even if the test is standardized. It also doesn't help that students now routinely write the MCAT multiple times with no penalty (at least in Canada) for doing so. Did you end up getting into med school? Also what's your IQ, just wondering. You talk about it a lot, like you're a gift from god (when in reality you just lucked out on genetics). When you refer to IQ I'm guessing you're referring to working memory/processing speed. I think that's where most of us "relatively intelligent but not super gifted" lack/have trouble with on the mcat. There's drugs that fix that though, lol Like the older I get, I start to realize there's a problem with humanity. Like not just IQ but anything hereditary (pretty much your entire life, I mean philosophically isn't our life predetermined/coded in your genetic code, and anything we do is purely an interaction between the expression of our genes and our environment?). We respect genetics more than hard work, shouldn't it be the other way around (let's not get into the brain chemistry of hard work lol)? Obviously I respect people like you and my friends that have superior IQ since I respect intelligent people a lot, but yeah, you guys just got lucky with the genetic lottery, lol. I study my ass off for my grades, shouldn't I get some respect too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Did you end up getting into med school? Also what's your IQ, just wondering. You talk about it a lot, like you're a gift from god (when in reality you just lucked out on genetics). When you refer to IQ I'm guessing you're referring to working memory/processing speed. I think that's where most of us "relatively intelligent but not super gifted" lack/have trouble with on the mcat. There's drugs that fix that though, lol Like the older I get, I start to realize there's a problem with humanity. Like not just IQ but anything hereditary (pretty much your entire life, I mean philosophically isn't our life predetermined/coded in your genetic code, and anything we do is purely an interaction between the expression of our genes and our environment?). We respect genetics more than hard work, shouldn't it be the other way around (let's not get into the brain chemistry of hard work lol)? Obviously I respect people like you and my friends that have superior IQ since I respect intelligent people a lot, but yeah, you guys just got lucky with the genetic lottery, lol. I study my ass off for my grades, shouldn't I get some respect too? I was just reading an article about that actually - well on a related topic. Is it genetic or IQ we respect versus hard work or is it simply we respect results, and have very little concern about how those results are obtained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasteman Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 This may seem out there, but the general concept of IQ seems dated. It is a relic. A lingering ghost from the era of Eugenics and phrenology that seems to have seeped through the cracks of current day wisdom and understanding. And then we have the tests. IQ tests presents the premise that it measures some innate talent, but what that talent is and its relevance is questionable. Essentially, I think people put stock in such a fruitless number because it fuels the belief that it is objective proof that I am better than you. At the end of the day it is more worthwhile as a person to forget that number and focus on achieving your goals, because regardless of what these number may imply, the proof is in the doing. So good luck, and keep up the hard work. You'll get there. Keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 ha, I mean IQ does have a place - not so much on the extreme side but more on identify areas where additional resources should be used to help someone at an early age where it can make a serious difference. I do not believe in a single score that universally reflects someone intelligence. We are more complex of a species than that. Please I have met far too many really smart people that do nothing with it. The reason we focus so much on hard work and attitude is because they are such large determinants of end outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beacon Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrin Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just got my grade back for the MCAT. Pretty much disqualified from applying due to unbalanced score. Really not sure what to do at this point....some advice would be lovely. Rewrite? 512 (130,125,129,128) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 yeah I would say so - that is in part why they let you take the test more than once so you can actually figure out how to improve and do so. If you have the other aspects of your application in good shape you would hate to have that holding you back. Just got my grade back for the MCAT. Pretty much disqualified from applying due to unbalanced score. Really not sure what to do at this point....some advice would be lovely. Rewrite? 512 (130,125,129,128) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just got my grade back for the MCAT. Pretty much disqualified from applying due to unbalanced score. Really not sure what to do at this point....some advice would be lovely. Rewrite? 512 (130,125,129,128) If you can, I would re-write. The sciences you'll likely be able to repeat those good scores because you won't have lost that knowledge base by now, so you might as well try and boost up your CARS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 If you can, I would re-write. The sciences you'll likely be able to repeat those good scores because you won't have lost that knowledge base by now, so you might as well try and boost up your CARS and there is a lot of advice on the forum about that part of the test - really examine your approach, how did you study for it? CARS issues are not uncommon to say the least but it is a section that can be overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrin Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 It was a bit of a shock because I was expecting 128+ based on my past practice exams. I rarely read any non-science books cover to cover though, so I think that might be my problem. I'm on the 2nd degree path, so I still have a bit of time left and will be taking it again in 2017. In the back of my mind I keep blaming the fact that english is not my first language, but that's an easy and a somewhat unproductive mindset to get in to. Best of luck to all of you trying to improve your mcat scores. If anyone is in the same boat and wants to talks it over, feel free to message me. and there is a lot of advice on the forum about that part of the test - really examine your approach, how did you study for it? CARS issues are not uncommon to say the least but it is a section that can be overcome. If you can, I would re-write. The sciences you'll likely be able to repeat those good scores because you won't have lost that knowledge base by now, so you might as well try and boost up your CARS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwo_guy Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 same boat. be lucky that you atleast did not get disqualified because of Western's sudden change of rules on 2nd degreer's. I went back to school for 2 years just to find out that I cant even apply after all that effort. Are you referring to "Applicants who embark on a second undergraduate degree program are eligible to apply only during the final year of their new program" from the faq? https://www.schulich.uwo.ca/medicine/undergraduate/future_students/faq.html I hadn't heard this changed. Does this affect me at all, as someone who took 2 undergrad degrees, where my second one is a 4 year equivalent but was completed over 2 years due to overlapping 1st and 2nd year requirements. From the wording it sounds like it won't affect me, but just that it limits my GPAs years to the 2nd undergrad years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Are you referring to "Applicants who embark on a second undergraduate degree program are eligible to apply only during the final year of their new program" from the faq? https://www.schulich.uwo.ca/medicine/undergraduate/future_students/faq.html I hadn't heard this changed. Does this affect me at all, as someone who took 2 undergrad degrees, where my second one is a 4 year equivalent but was completed over 2 years due to overlapping 1st and 2nd year requirements. From the wording it sounds like it won't affect me, but just that it limits my GPAs years to the 2nd undergrad years. the issues is if they are still forcing the 3/5 rule except not considering that to a 1st year of a program but rather year 5 etc of your UG education. That would make it much harder to compress things into 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 It was a bit of a shock because I was expecting 128+ based on my past practice exams. I rarely read any non-science books cover to cover though, so I think that might be my problem. I'm on the 2nd degree path, so I still have a bit of time left and will be taking it again in 2017. In the back of my mind I keep blaming the fact that english is not my first language, but that's an easy and a somewhat unproductive mindset to get in to. Best of luck to all of you trying to improve your mcat scores. If anyone is in the same boat and wants to talks it over, feel free to message me. then you have pretty good reason to think there was a test day issue rather than an overall weakness - more reason to try again, and apply more studying to the area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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