Mad at MAC

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

There is a fair amount of complaining about the selection process at Mac, and up until this point I have not felt any reason to feel slighted. My application and interview experience was quite positive despite the fact that I was rejected. Now I have a bone to pick...

My plan B involves skipping the application process this cycle in order to:

-Attend Mac as a part time continuing student to get Biology and Chemistry prerequisits.

-Do some extra currics and volunteer work.

- Write the MCAT next August

- Apply to several schools in October 2003.

Now guess what? Apparently I am good enough to be permitted to apply to their medical school and to be interviewed, but not acceptable to take their level 1 introductory chemsitry and biology courses. I mean COME ON!!!! This is truly a crock o' @##!@#.

Frankly at 26, I don't have the time or desire to complete a second undergrad degree. I have already decided to delay my reapplication another year in order to be the best applicant I can be. Now Mac is telling me Too Bad.

I could really use some advice if anyone has any.

 

Melissa

[Guest bubbagump]

The administration is pretty nice to deal with, and you are guaranteed to get a better mark than if you took courses at Mac. I don't know the deadlines, but you should look into it.

[Guest Melissa13]

Hello there fellow Melissa,

The following is a link to Athabaska where you can take correspondance courses....including Chemistry and Biology. Best wishes keep trucking, Melissa

 

www.athabascau.ca/

[Guest Angie]

Hi Melissa,

 

That is really silly if you ask me. Maybe if you tell them your situation and then see if you could be accepted on a probational basis or into a different program in which you could get the credits. You could always go to Guelph...which is fantastic, but killer chem is not fun.

 

After high school I applied to uni's, got accepted and then decided to go to New Zealand and Australia for the year and work. I really wanted to go to Guelph and got in, but after reapplying in NZ they rejected me! I got my guidance counsellor to call, called everyother day to see if there was any way to admit me and offered to drop down into a program with lower entrance requirements. In the end they let me in probably just to get me out of their hair. In my first year chem course I got a 36% on my first midterm and decided to drop the course and try again second semester. Obviously I had a bumpy start at uni, but now I was interviewed at 5 schools and was accepted into two and waitlisted at the other 3. In other words...don't give up, you CAN do anything. This whole situation will give you an interesting example of overcoming adversity in your future med school interviews, hee hee.

I would go in to Mac in person and try to talk to anyone who can help. Good luck and have a great holiday weekend.

[Guest tt]

Why are they not allowing you to take the courses?

 

Is it because you lack the prereqs for the courses? If so, then you will have this problem at all the schools. Without the prereq's most schools won't let you into science courses.

 

Are your marks in the prereq courses too low? If so then the university courses will be much harder anyway and you should prepare yourself.

 

Did you apply too late for the courses? If so, most places will reject you as the seats by now have already filled up, they actually fill up in March and most of the schools.

 

Why not ask them if you can take the courses as a special student?

 

If you take the courses part time, the year will not be counted into your GPA, trust me the same thing happened to me.

 

You may have to go ahead and complete a second degree. Its really not that bad because with transfer credits from the first degree it will take you two years to do a Bsc and three years to do an Hon Bsc. You will stand a far greater chance of being accepted with more science under your belt.

 

Being 26 is not that old, I actually remember you from the interviews (I am the one who posted your rejection for you before you received a letter. Since Carolyn will most certainly censor my post, I will not go into what was lacking in your application as I did last time but its time to make some changes Melissa and a Bsc would be a very good step in the right directoin.

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

I would prefer that you contact me personally via:

melissa_a_j56@hotmail.com

 

I did not have the opportunity to see the "rejection" that you posted but from what I understand it was not very constructive. It makes me wonder why you are offering your advice at this point. I would be happy to discuss this further in private.

 

Melissa

[Guest sydney]

Melissa

 

I don't think that you need to do a science degree to make yourself more competitive. Why not just apply again, you received an interview this year, what makes you think that you wouldn't next year?? There must be something in terms of the interview which you could have improved upon? If I were you I would really reflect back to each part of your interview, critically appraising you own performance...Why wait another year??...I would go for it again...I've applied x3, and last year got desperate because I lacked some of the pure science courses (have anatomy, physiology, human biochemistry...the practical human courses... but that's not good enough for some stupid reason...) so I only worked half-time last year and took Chemistry and a mol. bio course at Brock part-time so I could write the MCAT. But now, reflecting on my interview at MAC, I have realized that mac is the only place I want to be. and I am not going to write the MCAT in August, I've had enough formal pre-med schooling...If I don't get off the waitlist this year, I am re-applying until I am successful (I guess I'll be realistic, as I am 27 now...). So don't hang your head, re-apply THIS October, maybe take a correspondence course or two if you feel you need to. Because if Mac is where you want to be, you will do it!! Best of luck!!

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

Sydney, as someone who has been through this a couple of times I really do appreciate your input. I REALLY want to go to McMaster, as I feel it would be an excellent fit with my learning style and goals. I can't help but feel that I have had my shot there and well, frankly, didn't make the cut. You see, I was granted an interview based my current educational background. I was interviewed to discuss my goals and personal characteristics. I was rejected based on this information. You can only change so much about yourself, and education is one of those things. That is why I am looking to go back to school.

I don't have the math credits that would allow me to apply for a Bsc. I don't want to waste this academic year going back to highschool to get them. I am really feeling the pressure to get on with a career and with the average age of admitted med students being around 23 each year that passes puts me at a further disadvantage. So, I have opted to take the prerequisite courses as a so called "Continuing Student". Unfortunately I am having trouble being given permission to take courses at MAC. It seems that I have really been at there mercy this year....

I know that I need to make changes in order to be admitted to med school. I really am trying...

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Don't give in yet, there is still time for you to get off that list!

 

Cheers,

Melissa

[Guest MDWannaB]

Dear Melissa,

 

Please! You think in your mid-20's that you're too old? In 20 years you'll be laughing at the notion that you thought you might be wasting your time because you were 3-4 years older than the average med student. There are a number of people in their 40's, 20 years further down the line, who are still trying to get in. Read some of TSkinner44's posts, for example. They are egged on by the knowledge that some actually do get in! Don't give up. There's a fine line between rejection, wait list, and acceptance. Depending on who meets you, I'm sure anything can happen!

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

MDwannaB,

I am aware of the fact that you and TSkinner44 are mature applicants and I TRULY respect that fact.

First of all, have you not taken a look at the statistics? How many people above 40 are actually admitted each year? I am not saying that this is right, but it seems to be that the preference is given to fresh young undergraduate faces.

Secondly, those mature applicants who are admitted generally bring with them a wealth of experience gained during their time premedical applications! As a 29 year old applicant who has yet to hold down a "real" job, be married, divorced, own a business, or bear children, I highly doubt that I would rate anything except mediocre! In fact it may appear that I am someone who simply took a really, really long time to get the credentials that a 23 year old already has.

Yes I am engaging in some self depreciating behaviour here, but I am really frustrated and really down. I know that this is a test of my committment, and at this point I don't know if I will pass...

 

Melissa

[Guest tt]

Melissa:

 

Do you have Physics? Its required for the MCAT and I believe OAC calculus is a prereq for 1st yr. Physics.

 

As for my comments, I don't think they were disconstructive but rather the fact that I let the cat out of the bag a little early (in order to give you an extra month to focus and start executing plan was not met with approval.

 

Don't let the average age thing get to you Melissa, its just strictly based on the fact the vast majourity of applicants are straight out of high school, not because older applicants are looked down upon.

 

Now why do you feel pressure to get on with a career? Is it from your parents? Are they in your face about getting married etc.? An extra year or two in a career that will likely span 30 yrs will not make a dramatic difference in the big picture. Don't you agree.

 

In my experience don't rush things and use a shot gun approach, sure apply next year and the year after etc etc. but try and show some focus in your attack. There are applicants who come yr after yr with the same application and feel they should gain acceptance simply because a yr has passed since their last rejection.

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

Come on tt,

Why have you chosen to offer your advice to me?

Your posting my results didn't do a thing to help me prepare. In fact it made the waiting much worse and reduced my faith in the ethics of the process at MAC. I am not the vindictive type but I really don't think the admission committee would have approved of your move. Since you have chosen to reveal yourself to me again, why don't you email privately and say what you have to say. I am not going to track you down and report you...I just want to do what I can to change my results down the line.

I am trying to approach this systematically, hence the outlined plan and my decision that my experience in the past year does little to pad my application for this cycle.

I completed OAC chemistry this winter and got what I think is a respectable 88%. I am currently attempting to teach myself physics a la correspondance. I do not have calculus, hence the fact that I can't apply to do a BSc. Neither of these courses are prerequisits for the classes that I wish to pursue. Yes they are for the degree, but not for the individual courses.

Why won't they let me? Something about space restrictions and not letting Continuing Students in due to this. Why they allow Continuing Students in the first place then is beyond me.

As for the pressure to get on with it, it comes from me. Maybe it is a lack of self confidence or something but I really feel like it is time that I was using my education and doing something to contribute to the world. I don't want to have a career as a student.

tt, you are somewhat of a mystery, and something like a grain of sand in my wounds. I am open to feedback, but given your past actions I really wish you would contact me somewhere else.

 

Melissa

[Guest gucio93]

Dear Melissa!

 

I'm currently a student at Mac, and as I've indicated earlier, I have been involved in every step of the application process except the final collation. I can say with confidence that every student I know, who has been involved in this final stage, has not been discussing the any of the confidential information with others. I hope that those I do not know well are also upholding the standard.

 

In all honesty, I'm truly disappointed in tt (not that he/she would care either way I'm sure). I must say that sharing such private/confidential information (if in fact they were known to him/her and not just a shot in the dark that turned out to be correct) goes beyond unethical. It is wrong. I must say I'm very torn between reporting this to administration and keeping quiet. Part of my ambivalence lies in the fact that I don't truly know whether or not to believe this poster's messages.

 

I'm very sorry that you had to go through such an unpleasant experience on this board. However, if you find support here otherwise, I would really encourage you to continue to draw on the positive responses you are getting here and ignore all other "garbage". If I can help in any way please let me know.

[Guest tt]

Melissa I will contact you via email. I'm just gathering my notes from the cycle in order to help you.

 

 

Melissa, I'm not salt in your wounds. Please don't look at me that way. Did you have a teacher that ever pushed you to the point that you hated the very sight of them? Then one day you looked backed and realized how much that person pushed you to achieve your potential, and how much help they were to your life?

 

I really liked you and my only reason for informing you was to give you chance to get your butt down to register for those courses and sign up for volunteering etc. Believe it or not the volunteer spots at Sick kids for the summer and fall yr are already full (as an example). There are alot of premed types out there, roughly 3000-4000 to be exact with only 500-600 spots one has to be diligent and plough forward.

 

In any case I will contact you and lets see if we can get you into medicine

 

PS I'm not one of those " oh good for you, you tried your best, you got rejected oh well I know your the best person in the world and I know in my heart you will get in, Melissa don't forget your amazing we all love you and think your amazing you will do anything you set your mind to....did wemention your the best?"

 

Its great to be positive like many on the board but I think its of more use to provide info to help people improve their chances for admittance. It almost makes me think these people are like " your amazing we will hand you all the sympathy you need but don't you dare ask us what our strategy is, that's purely our competitive advantage."

 

I'll be in touch with you Melissa via email.

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

Dear gucio

I don't really know what to think about this whole thing either. At the time I was assured that my file was confidential and that a leak of that sort could simply not happen. Given that there were a lot of troll postings at that time I assumed this was another one. I accepted that, and also accepted the fact that perhaps tt did know my results, and really it would not change the wording of my letter regardless.

Now? I don't know what to think. I could use all the advice I can get. I don't really see why tt would have any reason to help me out. Then again, why would he/she choose to reveal my results alone? Who knows!

 

What I really could use at this point is a contact in the Biology Department. Does anyone know what kind of wine or chocolates they like in there????????

 

Melissa

[Guest tt]

Are they not letting you into Bio either??

 

Maybe Melissa you should attend classes for the first week and surely people will start to drop at which point you can officially register yourself.

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

tt

The plan is to take Bio 1AO3 and 1AA3 as well as Chem 1AO3 and 1AA3.

Don't have OAC Bio, but took 1 whole year of intro bio at U of Windsor and I really think that should be equivalent to OAC. I could see if they flat out rejected me based on that, but it doesn't really seem to be the issue! I think the issues is that I won't actually be enrolled in a program. Based on the course calendar, as long as you have 80% in the oac you can take the course.

I want to take these courses in hopes of cramming in Organic chem this summer before the MCAT. Can't proceed anywhere if they don't let me.

It is all so convoluted and complex. I thought the medschool admission process was ambiguous....

Melissa

[Guest tt]

Melissa if you have intro Bio at UWindsor, that may be sufficient. Is that not the same as the two half course bio series offered at Mac?

 

Another strategy to get the courses could be to enroll in a B.A. program. At Mac if you are enrolled in a BA program, you are permitted to take science courses, ie the Bio and Chem that you need. Maybe that may be a way to let you in the courses.

 

Since you are taking courses with a view to the MCAT, genetics may be helpful as I have heard that some of the Orgo stuff is being replaced with genetics. Confirm this on the MCAT board and elsewhere, but that's what I have heard. Another course that I found really helpful for the MCAT and later in med school was Physiology.

 

These are just some tips for you, but certainly try the B.A. trick to get those courses, you don't need to finish the B.A. just enroll to get the courses. Unfortunately this problem is going to magnify the following year with the double cohort and limited space.

 

Just a quick question, have you been working as a social worker this summer, and will you be working as social worker this year or is there something else you plan to do?

 

take care (no hard feelings, trust me I'm just tryin to help. friends?

tt

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

I have considered the BA option. However, I have a fairly decent GPA and don't want to sacrifice that work. If I enroll in a second undergraduate degree I believe that most schools will then disregard the grades from the previous degree. Isn't this sort of the reverse of those people who have a crap GPA then go back for a second degree to improve? Say I did that and then transferred to take BSc, would I not be required to complete 2 full time years of study before I can apply to med school?

Currently unemployed. Not much luck finding anything at all here in Hamilton with my background. May be resorting to Tim Horton's soon...

As far as friends go... excuse me for being a little distrustful. While I appreciate your interest in my situation, I would prefer to have a private conversation with you before I decide that we can be "friends". Still awaiting that email...

 

Melissa

[Guest tt]

Actually Melissa,

 

schools like Ottawa, Sask,Calgary will look at your most recent two or three yrs. So say you did one year, they would use that year plus two or three years from your previous degree depending on the school.

 

 

Hope that helps

 

PS: There must be a demand for social workers in the Hamilton, is there not?

[Guest marmotYVR]

Melissa-

I hear your dilemma re: skipping this application cycle- I'm in the same boat. I, too, got an interview, and then was rejected. I was KILLED on the interview with incessant questions re: volunteer work (or, in my case, the lack of!), community involvement (lack of!) etc. I haven't improved on any of these areas in the last year. Now that I've been rejected, I'm planning on doing some volunteer work and research to boost my resume - but this won't actually show up on this years application... so I, too, debated skipping this application cycle while I did some "self-improvement".

 

I have decided, tho, to reapply this cycle, and I'll share my reasons, in case they might help you sort thru your situation.

 

1. It can't hurt. Let's face it - it costs what - 100 bucks (therabouts) to apply. Not exactly a huge amt of money in the grand scope of things. If you apply this yr, and don't get in, you are still in the exact same boat as if you didn't apply at all!

 

2. I think it is good to keep the momentum going. If I don't reapply this year, I may start to waffle, feel that I'm too old, that I should get over this "pipe dream" and get on with my life...only to later regret it!

 

3. My "take" on the Mac selection process is this: once you get past the first "cut" and get an interview, a lot of the rest is "marketing". You have to stand out from the crowd. This is where I personally need to do some work, both in terms of having stuff to talk about(ie. gonna get out there and volunteer), as well as working on my "bragging" skills!

 

My advice (nothing like an unsolicited opinion!) to you is this: Your academics, at least for Mac, are not an issue. Your GPA is respectable, and they do not discriminate based on undergrad degree - do you really think that you'll pull off a better interview b/c of a first year chem course? If you want to apply to schools other than Mac, then get the prereq's that they need, and do the MCAT. But, if Mac is your goal, I would focus your energy on volunteer work - you are a social worker, right? I'm sure an AIDS hospice, or a homeless shelter would love to have you. I bet you could develop a project in one of those settings, which would show great self-motivation, compassion, teamwork etc. And you may even find a job as a social worker out of it! (of course, you'll only need that job for the next 12 months since you'll be in for 2003!)

 

I feel your frustration, as I, too, have been fumbling to pull off Plan B. If you decide that school is the way to go, then I hope you are able to sort thru the bizarre Mac undergrad situation, and get into the courses you need!

 

Good luck!

 

Marmot

[Guest ItsmeMelissa]

Marmot,

Good for you for sticking to your guns. You make a valid point with regards to momentum. I just have to say that for me, applying "just because it wouldn't hurt" didn't get me very far this year, and perhaps that is another reason why I am putting off my next application.

I made the decision to pursue medicine while I was overseas. I knew NOTHING about my options until I had a conversation with my family doctor about it. She basically told me that my only hope was Mac and that I better get my butt in gear and apply. I did this with about a month or so left to get it together before the deadline. Despite my misgivings about the strength of my application (no science background, no recent volunteer or charity work etc) I did it. I guess I applied because it "couldn't hurt".

Well, I made it through the first cut and got an interview. I am really proud of that. I will be honest and say that I really thought I had a chance. I floated along on the momentum of having got an interview and having had a great time in the process. Stupidly, I placed all my eggs in McMaster's basket. Nevertheless, I didn't get in and I was crushed. I regret not having thought things through a little more and prepared for a year before I applied. Had I done that, maybe the qualities that got me an interview would have been enhanced with some relavent field experiences. If only I had done this or that...

Doesn't it disturb you that people are granted interviews one year and not the next. I am really frightened of that aspect of McMaster. Being rejected post interview does enough to one's self esteem. Reapplying and being rejected outright would suck much worse?!

This time, I will be patient. I will do whatever I can to put my BEST foot forward. For me that means not rushing in to the process again. Different strokes for different folks . I am glad to see that you have the determination to do what is right for you!

 

tt

Ottawa is on my list. I also plan to apply to Western, Queens, and U of T. My first choice still remains McMaster. As for the out of province options, I don't see that as an option at this point. For personal reasons I hope to remain close to where I am.

Just out of curiosity, does my posting late on a friday night do anything to mend the partygirl impression that I left you with? Do I still come off as selfish? Would it surprise you to know that I know about 5 people here in Hamilton and haven't actually had a big night out in months and months? I don't know what to make of this whole thing today. You made some harsh criticisms about me a couple months ago, and then extend your advice and help. If you really want to help me COME CLEAN. You know how to contact me.

 

Melissa

[Guest Macinbound]

Going back to a post to Medwannabe, I think she's above 40 and I hope she gets accepted!!!!!

 

As for you, don't you get what tt said about the stats? The number of people applying above the age of say 24 is small and gets smaller as you go up in age. Therefore of course you will have maybe 2 40 yr olds in a class, if 2 people apply that are over 40 that means a 100% SUCCESS RATE FOR THOSE OVER 40 APPLYING. Yeah you will see tons of 23 yr olds getting accpeted but tons also apply so it makes sense. Maybe a stats course with those science courses would be a good idea.

 

Do you know how hard med school is? People who get in work really really hard and usually are very focused sans bumming around Europe for years after they graduate trying to avoid life. Get focused and make an honest effort here, if you don't you may end up accepted like me who has know place in med school but thank you adcomms anyway, I will do you proud, or at least do you (the student interviewer that is )

[Guest Macinbound]

Melissa are you 29 or 26? In some posts you say you are 26 in others you are 29?

 

Just wondering, seems like a slight difference......

[Guest sydney]

Melissa...

 

I know for a fact, that Hamilton Health Sciences is looking for Social Workers, have you sent a resume their way?? Every Thursday morning they post new jobs, 1st floor, red elevators, just behind the stair case (ironically just around the corner from the old MD admissions office!).

 

I personally know of a few people who will be on mat leave, an there is currently a job at the MUMC ER (part-time, I think...), that I saw posted last week. I can provide you my email if you wish as I do check these postings on a weekly basis for fun! Best of luck!!

 

Sydney