SGU Withdraws Accreditation - Future Students May Not be Eligible for US Residency

[bearded frog]

I'm not sure how this works with applying for a Canadian residency in the future, but I know a lot of Caribbean applicants look to a US residency as a safety net, so anyone considering should follow this situation closely.

Basically, to write the STEP exams and apply for US residency, IMG graduates must have their school accredited by a body recognized by the ECFMG. Up to now, SGU has been on provisional accreditation with the CAAM-HP which accredits Caribbean schools. SGU has now withdrawn from this accreditation, likely because they would have had to meet requirements that they did not or could not want to. They have sent a letter to all their students that currently, as of 2024 SGU students will not be able to sit the STEPS or apply for residency. They are also accredited by the Grenada accrediting body, however this body is currently not recognized by the ECFMG. SGU's plan is to get the Grenada accreditation recognized by ECFMG prior to 2024. It is unknown how difficult this will be or if it's possible, but the continued operation of SGU will rely on it.

The take home point is that if you are considering SGU (don't, but still), please follow this situation very closely, because if you apply now you are gambling even more than the big gamble with the Caribbean you would be otherwise.

See these threads for more info:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/sgu-withdrawing-caam-hp-accreditation.1431909/

R3ddit: /r/premed/comments/ku23kn/st_georges_withdraws_from_caamhp_effectively/

[JohnGrisham]

I know many SGU grads, and given that SGU has placed about 1000 Canadian/US residents each year, I would think as a very successful business...they probably know what they are doing - and expect things to transition smoothly for 2024.

If they are willing to go through this process, they probably have a very high suspicion it will go in their favour. They would not risk their golden goose medical admissions process on it.

That said, attend a mainland US school before attending any carribean school.

That, or there is something seriously insidious behind the scenes, and they are relying on their reputable brand name to ride through the process. 

[bearded frog]

It seems extremely unlikely this is a smooth planned transition if they are withdrawing prior to Grenada certification. It would make more sense to have Grenada certified, which they have been working on for some time, then announce withdrawal of their other accreditation and having no possibility of interruption and not having to send a letter to all their students explaining what is going on. The CAAM-HP is seen as a more strict accreditation group, and the theory is that after a prolonged provisional status with issues that needed to be addressed, they gave and ultimatum and SGU could not, or it was not financially viable, to address the issues, so they withdrew prior to having their accreditation officially denied, which would look much worse.

I agree that SGU thinks Grenada will be approved which makes it likely, as their whole business relies on it, but I have to wonder what accommodation for their students they were refusing to do that made them take this risky option!

[rmorelan]

even if they have some plan they would at least have a marketing issue now because there is no longer any certainty. If the board already have issues with SGU, and Grenada certifies them, then by proxy you would have to think that the board would also have issues with certifying Grenada directly. Accreditation programs aren't a fan of back door style approaches to bypassing things.  

Plus paying a ton of money riding on that working out perfectly? Doesn't seem logical (plus you of course would have to wonder why is certification so hard for SGU in the first place - maybe there are serious issues with the program for instance). 

 

[leviathan]

Yikes. This is the problem going to these foreign medical schools. Even at a 'good' school like SGU, you just can't predict what will happen. I'm 99% sure this will work out okay - not rectifying this would literally destroy what is one of the biggest medical schools for the US - but it still creates a lot of unnecessary stress for the students there.

I went to Saba when they were transitioning to officially joining the Netherlands , so they had to become accredited by the Netherlands instead of this caribbean group. They ended up getting accreditation, but it was somewhat stressful at the time not knowing if I'd be able to write the USMLEs. 

[just Chris]

UPDATED FACTS FOR EVERYONE

At no point in time has SGU not been accredited or able to apply for a residency through the Match.  In fact, close to 1000 SGU graduates matched in 2022, making SGU the largest provider into US residencies.  See placement here:  SGU - Residency Appointment Directory

SGU Is accredited by the Grenada Medical and Dental Council which the U.S. National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation (NCFMEA), (a panel of experts organized by the U.S. Department of Education), determined that GMDC uses standards that are comparable to the standards used to accredit medical schools in the United States.

As of September 3rd 2022, The Grenada Medical and Dental Council (GMDC) has been awarded Recognition Status by the World Federation for Medical Education (WFME). WFME Recognition Status has been awarded for ten years.   GMDC_Press-release_Recognition.pdf (wfme.org)

WFME's approval of CAAM-HP expires on May 31st 2023  WFME extends CAAM-HP’s Recognition Status – Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine and Other Health Professions   At which point CAAM-HP will have to go through the approval process with WFME

[bearded frog]

2 hours ago, just Chris said:

UPDATED FACTS FOR EVERYONE

EVEN MORE UPDATED FACTS

Yes, it's true, SGU managed to completely-not-at-all-sketchily make their own accreditation body which (shockingly) accredited them.

The SGU is the only institution accredited by GMDC and 3 out of the 8 board members (including the chair) are SGU faculty (2 are dentists, 1 is a SGU grad). So yes, completely independent and not at all a biased racket...

Note that NCFMEA and WFME approval are not indications of quality education... NCFMEA approves all the sketchy second-tier Caribbean schools and WFME is essentially a list of medical schools, including 400 in India alone.

[Pakoon]

3 hours ago, just Chris said:

UPDATED FACTS FOR EVERYONE

At no point in time has SGU not been accredited or able to apply for a residency through the Match.  In fact, close to 1000 SGU graduates matched in 2022, making SGU the largest provider into US residencies.  See placement here:  SGU - Residency Appointment Directory

SGU Is accredited by the Grenada Medical and Dental Council which the U.S. National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation (NCFMEA), (a panel of experts organized by the U.S. Department of Education), determined that GMDC uses standards that are comparable to the standards used to accredit medical schools in the United States.

As of September 3rd 2022, The Grenada Medical and Dental Council (GMDC) has been awarded Recognition Status by the World Federation for Medical Education (WFME). WFME Recognition Status has been awarded for ten years.   GMDC_Press-release_Recognition.pdf (wfme.org)

WFME's approval of CAAM-HP expires on May 31st 2023  WFME extends CAAM-HP’s Recognition Status – Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine and Other Health Professions   At which point CAAM-HP will have to go through the approval process with WFME

Nice try SGU PR team that made this account 2 hours ago just to post this, nice try 

[rmorelan]

9 hours ago, bearded frog said:

EVEN MORE UPDATED FACTS

Yes, it's true, SGU managed to completely-not-at-all-sketchily make their own accreditation body which (shockingly) accredited them.

The SGU is the only institution accredited by GMDC and 3 out of the 8 board members (including the chair) are SGU faculty (2 are dentists, 1 is a SGU grad). So yes, completely independent and not at all a biased racket...

Note that NCFMEA and WFME approval are not indications of quality education... NCFMEA approves all the sketchy second-tier Caribbean schools and WFME is essentially a list of medical schools, including 400 in India alone.

oh gezz I mean that is just so transparently off it is a bit crazy. 

You would think with all the revenue SGU acquires they would do whatever was necessary to protect the underlying business model. If they don't then in quite short order they will be simply pointless - not matter what ploys they attempt. 

 

[Edict]

This is exactly the reason why I tell people to go to Ireland/UK/Australia before the Caribbean. Honestly, the kind of education you will get in the Caribbean will pale in comparison and the NYC hospitals that take students are safety net hospitals out to make a buck, they treat their residents poorly and that is where many Caribbean graduates end up in residency. There is very real bias against Caribbean graduates amongst non-physicians, many whom will choose not to see a Caribbean grad just out of assumptions that they were poorly trained. That often isn't fair, but it is something serious to consider. 

[navy8er]

On June 12, 2023 I will have been practicing medicine for almost 48 years.  I'm a foreign medical graduate (FMG).  About 46 years ago I stopped worrying about being a FMG.  I can't remember now if I stopped worrying when I was rotating through pediatrics and we were trying discharge some child who had come into the hospital so sick and scared but as we were now trying to send them home they were holding on to me like they never wanted to leave.  It could have been the night when I had to open the chest of a gunshot wound patient in the emergency room.  I literally was wheeled into the operating room with my finger in the hole in his heart.  By the grace of God, he lived.  He didn't care that I was a FMG. It could have been many other times, I just don't remember at this time

Regarding St. George's University School of Medicine [not my medical school], I refer you to a Forbes magazine article by Kristen Moon dated December 14, 2022, "Applying to International Medical Schools? Here are Five Things To Keep in Mind."  The article documents that stating in 2024 graduates of schools accredited by an organization with World Federation for Medical Education (WFME) recognition will be eligible for residency positions in the United States.  It further documents that the accreditor of St. George's University has received WFME recognition through 2032.  I would not listen to frogs that have beards or anyone else who stands in the way of you practicing medicine.

[Pakoon]

6 hours ago, navy8er said:

On June 12, 2023 I will have been practicing medicine for almost 48 years.  I'm a foreign medical graduate (FMG).  About 46 years ago I stopped worrying about being a FMG.  I can't remember now if I stopped worrying when I was rotating through pediatrics and we were trying discharge some child who had come into the hospital so sick and scared but as we were now trying to send them home they were holding on to me like they never wanted to leave.  It could have been the night when I had to open the chest of a gunshot wound patient in the emergency room.  I literally was wheeled into the operating room with my finger in the hole in his heart.  By the grace of God, he lived.  He didn't care that I was a FMG. It could have been many other times, I just don't remember at this time

Regarding St. George's University School of Medicine [not my medical school], I refer you to a Forbes magazine article by Kristen Moon dated December 14, 2022, "Applying to International Medical Schools? Here are Five Things To Keep in Mind."  The article documents that stating in 2024 graduates of schools accredited by an organization with World Federation for Medical Education (WFME) recognition will be eligible for residency positions in the United States.  It further documents that the accreditor of St. George's University has received WFME recognition through 2032.  I would not listen to frogs that have beards or anyone else who stands in the way of you practicing medicine.

Nice try SGU PR team that made this account 5 hours ago.... But let's say this is a legitimate individual, I think your IMG experience from half a century ago regarding practicing locally is completely irrelevant in today's world (things have changed). But I'm glad you made such an impact on that patients life!

[bearded frog]

16 hours ago, navy8er said:

On June 12, 2023 I will have been practicing medicine for almost 48 years.  I'm a foreign medical graduate (FMG).

Cool, so you started practising prior to SGU being founded. Clearly that means you must have some valuable insight into the program as it currently stands. /s

I suspect that in 1975 you didn't have much for-profit overseas medical school for US applicants, so you must have gone to an established institution in a different country, which is a very different scenario than the current Caribbean schools.

16 hours ago, navy8er said:

The article documents that stating in 2024 graduates of schools accredited by an organization with World Federation for Medical Education (WFME) recognition will be eligible for residency positions in the United States.  It further documents that the accreditor of St. George's University has received WFME recognition through 2032.  I would not listen to frogs that have beards or anyone else who stands in the way of you practicing medicine.

Yup. Please see my post above from September that states this and also why it is incredibly sketchy. There is no dispute that some SGU grads do US residency, and even rarely in Canada. However, a very low percentage of matriculating 1st year students match in their year of graduation, and a relatively low percentage match at all. I suspect the most successful SGU students could have matched to US/Canada MD if they put a year or two of effort into reapplication, and had much better opportunities for residency. Really the only people the Caribbean (and IMG in general) makes sense for is for people who did relatively poorly in undergrad but have a reasonable MCAT, and are a few years out from undergrad and would now have been able to get a better GPA but are weighed down by their previous GPA (and are independently wealthy or have wealthy family members to bankroll them).