UBC vs uOttawa

[BananaIce]

Hey everyone,

 

One of my first times using this forum! If this post isn't in the right place, I apologize in advance. I am fortunate enough to receive offers to schools such as UBC (VFMP) and uOttawa, and I'm currently stuck in deciding between the two. I am from the GTA area. As someone who is unsure of what I want out of a career in medicine, I want to keep my options as open as possible - for example, in case I find myself drawn to a competitive specialty. I understand that both schools are great, but I was wondering what factors might be useful to consider when it comes down to making a difficult choice like this!

 

Thank you in advance!

[PeterL]

Both are definitely great! Ottawa has a nice, quiet and historic vibe to it. UBC is a beautiful place and I say its like a warmer weather Toronto. 

If you're looking into a competitive speciality, many people I know tend to find themselves trying to build a research resume during med school for their desired research speciality (although not always necessary). I had a mentor who took the entire year after his last year at a 3Y med school to pursue a full researchship year at a school with a well-known Ophthalmology program prior to matching into Ophthalmology -- not only did it help him with additional building his research resume, it allowed him to build better connections with the residents and program director there. So, from a research perspective alone, I would say that UBC offers more opportunities at that end versus Ottawa.

Remember whatever school you pick, you'll still end up having to electives at the schools you want to apply for that competitive speciality. I believe, some schools don't even interview you unless you have done an elective with them. So, if you are aiming for a competitive speciality, you'll likely be broadening your horizon across Canada for residency. 

However, there's always more variables that you have to factor in personally:

- Have you ever lived away from home like outside the province? If not, it may be a good chance to do so. May give you a period of growth away from family for a while and build independence.

- Weather --> Vancouver has rainy days and warm. Ottawa has a nice chilly cold perk to it.

- Expenses --> UBC has cheaper tuition than Ottawa but more expensive rent. --> ultimately, both are expensive. 

[bearded frog]

Where do you want to work? Do you feel like setting out to a new part of Canada? Or will you feel better closer to home to visit? Do you speak french or want to? Both programs are fine so unless you do some investigating and there is a specific detail that interests you about one over the other, then basically it comes down to where you want to live for the next 4 years, and where you want to do residency/work. There is a home school advantage for residency, so if you def want to stay in Ontario long term then Ottawa has the advantage.

[BananaIce]

I see! Thank you for both replies, and I'll definitely be taking all those points into consideration. One thing I've learned is that UBC has a lot of electives pre-CARMS - I was wondering if this should be a factor in my decision as well, especially if competitive specialties end up requiring electives at those schools. I'm aware that there is an elective cap as well - would that reduce the effectiveness of these extra electives? 

I've also done some reading on the curriculums from either school. Would it be fair to say that Ottawa provides more free time for research or wellness, or are both schools relatively strong on this front?

 

Thank you

[aspiringdoctor109]

Im in the same boat as you! Except I got an offer for the IMP site

[PeterL]

13 hours ago, BananaIce said:

I see! Thank you for both replies, and I'll definitely be taking all those points into consideration. One thing I've learned is that UBC has a lot of electives pre-CARMS - I was wondering if this should be a factor in my decision as well, especially if competitive specialties end up requiring electives at those schools. I'm aware that there is an elective cap as well - would that reduce the effectiveness of these extra electives? 

I've also done some reading on the curriculums from either school. Would it be fair to say that Ottawa provides more free time for research or wellness, or are both schools relatively strong on this front?

 

Thank you

The elective cap is something new that’s starting this upcoming Fall 2021? Essentially AFMC is using the cap to ensure students explore other specialities more before making a commitment to their specific path in medicine. How this limit doesn’t apply to subspecialties. I don’t see how this would reduce the “effectiveness” of the elective space that UBC gives, since every MD student is limited with this elective cap. If anything, if UBC the extra elective space you may get will have more opportunities exist simply because there will be more time at hand to explore.
 

Research and wellness are great at both school. For research, it really comes down to the quality and how available the opportunities are. If a competitive speciality is something you want to go for, UBC has always been ranked in the top 3 in Canada (and rankings are usually based on scholarly activity perform by the faculty and students). Ottawa has more opportunity on the public health end though given it’s proximities to governing agencies. 
 

Like how Ottawa has a bilingual advantage for the MD interviews, I have hear bilingualism does play a role in selection for residency to. So if this is true, if you’re not bilingual, your home school advantage with Ottawa is already lowered compared to UBC because you’ll be starting at different footing against others who may be bilingual. Someone else can correct me on this if this is incorrect.

You also have to remember that each MD school's MD seats are dictated by how many residency spots they have to offer. UBC has a larger seat allocation than Ottawa (349 v. 199  --> further breaking down to 290 vs. 112 respective CMG totals). Home SCHOOL advantage might play out better at UBC. Out of PROVINCE and home PROVINCE matching data are about equivalent, so if in the end you don't want to stay in Vancouver after your MD, your chances to matching back to somewhere in the GTA are approximately the same as trying match from Ottawa to the GTA. 

Ultimately, BOTH are great, but if I had to choose one, knowing that an extreme competitive speciality is what I’m focused on, I would likely choose UBC in this case.

[anbessa21]

I'll share my limited perspective as a recent Ottawa grad, though I think @PeterL broke things down quite well, and I don't have all that much to add.

1. The AFMC 8-week elective restriction came into play starting this past CaRMS cycle.

2. You are right in saying that the advantage of more pre-carms elective time is 'lost' with the current restrictions in place. This is particularly true if you are gunning for a singular competitive discipline with a high degree of certainty in your chosen path. It evens the playing field so to speak.

3. UBC does very well with matching to competitive specialties, both at home and OOP. They have abundant research and staff are well connected across the country. One thing you have to take into account; however, is that there may be more competition for home-school competitive seats at UBC than at Ottawa. This is supported by anecdotal evidence, as well as a proportionately greater number of Ottawa student's ranking FM as their first choice discipline, vs. proportionately greater number of UBC students ranking surgical or competitive non-surgical disciplines first. Given what we know about the home school advantage, this is not a negligible consideration, although is one that is subject to yearly fluctuation. Along the lines of what @bearded frog said, though your chances of matching GTA from Van are comparable to Ottawa, if you ended up matching at your home institution, you are much closer to family and supports in Ottawa than you are in Van (this only matters if you would like to return home for your residency, and matters more for 5-year RCPSC specialties than FM).

All in all, I think the biggest factors that you should consider are those that relate to quality of life. Both schools have seats in every R1 entry specialty, and there are always opportunities for research if you look for them; I wouldn't use this as a primary decision-making point unless there is some very niche opportunity/specific PI you have your eyes on. Are you in need of a new adventure/environment? Do you like bigger city living? Do you despise the cold/snow? Or do you like more a low-key city, closer to family/supports with white winters and 4 distinct seasons? Being in an environment that sets you up for success is by far the most important for academic performance, clerkship/elective performance, and ultimately for matching. If you're happy and healthy, you will perform better, and enjoy your med school experience as well.

[vt642781]

Congrats on getting into both schools!

I'm a current uOttawa MS3 and have a couple friends who are current UBC students. Although I have enjoyed my time overall at uOttawa, in my opinion UBC has a better program overall for a few reasons... 

With regards to curriculum, I would consider the differences between the traditional block-style (uOttawa) and the spiral curriculum at UBC. Although the block style is simple and well organized, I wish there was most opportunity to review concepts throughout pre-clerkship, instead of getting to clerkship without having thought about MSK for 2 years.

Anecdotally, uOttawa does not spend as much time in anatomy lab (1.5 hours a week max) as other schools such as UBC, so if anatomy is important to you, you can consider that as well. UBC has dissections included in the anatomy curriculum whereas dissections at uOttawa are optional. 

I've also gathered that UBC has a slightly stronger clinical skills program, with more training with sensitive exams with standardized patients, for example.

Also, I would not neglect the advantage of having the most pre-CaRMS electives in the country at UBC (we at uOttawa are very jealous of UBC). Even with the 8 week cap in a discipline, 20w of pre-CaRMS electives gives you the opportunity to visit many programs across the country to demonstrate interest/network, but also to potentially be competitive in 2+ specialties by "maxing out" at 8 weeks in 2 specialties. At uOttawa, we  have 14-18 weeks of pre-CaRMS electives this year, but this could change depending on post-pandemic CaRMS timelines. 

I will say that uOttawa does offer slightly more "free" time in preclerkship, as you have between 2-4 afternoons off every week. This can be seen as positive from a wellness perspective, or if you plan to take advantage of this time for observerships/research/work/leisure. Ottawa also has longer summers after MS1 and MS2 (which boils down to fewer pre-CARMS electives). 

Feel free to DM me if you have other questions!

[Sunmon]

what did you end up choosing @bananalce ?

[BananaIce]

Thanks everyone! I decided to attend UBC