Why the huge increase in radiology competitiveness over last few years?

[anon5678]

There's been a Huge increases in DR competitiveness over last few years. Most recent carms data showing a ratio of 0.63 for spots : 1st choice applicants. What gives?

[rgeidrefdskd]

money money money

[anonymouspls]

39 minutes ago, rgeidrefdskd said:

money money money

I don't think this is the only factor (but definitely a big factor for sure). Radiology's been one of the top billing specialties for 10+ years now, and before the current surge there was a period of 2-3 years where radiology was having open spots in the second round. 

I think you had a period of time where people were fearing AI taking over, which is why you saw the uncompetitive streak. My pet theory is that with COVID and med school behind computers, there is a huge culture shock when people go into hospitals for clerkship, and so they want to go back to working on the computer. There is also more and more exposure to rads in the pre-clinical years because of the increasing role of imaging each year. 

I do think this trend is cyclic, rather than rads continuing to be one of the top 4-5 specialties like derm or plastics. This will happen as the new batch of non-covid meds start residency, and more and more people are turned away from rads after seeing how competitive it's becoming - i.e. I suspect rads will be a top-3 competitive specialty this year when the reports come out. The major issues facing radiology in the next 10-15 years will also drive down competition, such as the increasingly worsening lifestyle of the specialty, AI (yes it will have an impact) and provincial cuts to compensation (provincial governments like Ontario love targeting radiology). 

 

[Sceptical]

Competitiveness in radiology residency programs has historically been cyclical/variable. However looking more broadly, students are getting less inclined over the recent years to apply into primary care specialties, which is probably driving the application numbers up for the remaining specialties (c.f. slide 99 of the latest CARMS data: https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/carms-forum-2023.pdf). If this trend doesn't reverse itself, rads might risk becoming like other very high-demand specialties where students feel pressured to push out many publications, forgo a 2nd iteration match to reroll in the next cycle, and take the extra research year or two to stand out from their peers. Rads doesn't really have other natural backup specialties that attract folks with the same competencies/interests/learning styles (maybe except for NM +/- path), so those applying into rads will likely adopt an "all in" strategy, methinks. 

[jax]

Only to be replaced by chatgpt lmao

[shikimate]

So I was browsing DR ads and they mention the remuneration range for FFS+AFP is only about 400K? That seems very low, the radiologist at my hospital bills 700K-900K lol. A lot of million dollar physicians here are radiologists.

https://www.uwo.ca/facultyrelations/careers/pdf/AD.Schulich-MedImg_Vascular-and-Interventional-Radiologist_2022.pdf

[1D7]

There's a big spread in radiology remuneration. Lots of rads work off-hours which exacerbates the spread.

Earning more correlates with a community setting, certain provinces (e.g. Prairies), hard work group culture, experience, and individual desire to work more.

[Aslidoctor]

On 8/25/2023 at 11:18 AM, shikimate said:

So I was browsing DR ads and they mention the remuneration range for FFS+AFP is only about 400K? That seems very low, the radiologist at my hospital bills 700K-900K lol. A lot of million dollar physicians here are radiologists.

https://www.uwo.ca/facultyrelations/careers/pdf/AD.Schulich-MedImg_Vascular-and-Interventional-Radiologist_2022.pdf

Rad jobs tend to pay less the first few years until you become "partner" aka extended residency environment (a nightmare for some med students will realize this once they get into the field..)

[rmorelan]

6 hours ago, Aslidoctor said:

Rad jobs tend to pay less the first few years until you become "partner" aka extended residency environment (a nightmare for some med students will realize this once they get into the field..)

Ha, and since we don't want them to realize it later on we likely to make sure that is out there sooner. The argument is when you join a practice that group has already built up capital in a variety of ways and you need to "buy in" in some fashion. Since you don't have any money yet having started off as staff that is generally done with "sweat equity" - you just don't get paid at the full rate. It is not a small difference - I started off at 60% for instance, and then the following year went to 80%, before finally hitting at the start of year 3 100% plus then a share of the group's profit. 

In the community you actually unlikely to be fast enough to be truly a fully time rad at the start - so you effectively have a pay cut another way - either you start at a lower rate or you end up working late/weekends all the time until you slowly get faster. The idea that you leave residency or even fellowships fully ready to go is just....false. Truly the first 5 years of any practice are really where you develop fully. That isn't just for radiology. 

You have to manage expectations buy being blunt about the truth. The problem is when anything is unexpected.  

[GOODATGETTINGREJECTED]

I dont know but applying next year will be nerve-wracking.

[HounsfieldUnit]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:58 PM, rmorelan said:

In the community you actually unlikely to be fast enough to be truly a fully time rad at the start - so you effectively have a pay cut another way - either you start at a lower rate or you end up working late/weekends all the time until you slowly get faster. 

As a new community radiologist, income can be quite lucrative.  I know of several new radiologists who are in this position, and who are pulling in $70-90K (or more) per month.  I suppose one of the factors is where they trained and the intensity of that training.

[HounsfieldUnit]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:03 PM, anon5678 said:

There's been a Huge increases in DR competitiveness over last few years. Most recent carms data showing a ratio of 0.63 for spots : 1st choice applicants. What gives?

Three big factors: 1) $$$ (which hasn't changed that much over the years); 2) job opportunities (there seem to have been many academic and community positions available over the past while (including at the big academic centres, including Vancouver and Toronto); and 3) especially post-COVID, radiologists can work full-time, from home, with flexible hours, and in their pyjamas if they like--even for hospitals, and including at least one academic-affiliated centre that I'm aware of.  That's one heck of a multi-factorial draw.