Any news yet waitlisters

[apples]

Volunteer on a Crisis Line!!! They always need people to keep it running 24 hours and the training & experience is awesome!!! There are several all over the city and their training starts at different times through out the year. I know that the Coquitlam Crisis Lines next training session starts in early September. Information night is on August 29.

http://www.sharesociety.ca/volunteerism.htm

 

Also, there are several ethnic Crisis Lines (Chinese, Punjabi etc.. and I believe a new one is opening up in Korean. If you know another language, I'm sure they will be needing lots of help as well.)

 

I truly believe that all people(esp any sort of physician) should go through some sort of Crisis Line Training! Everyone would be more understanding and better listeners!!

[apples]

I've already signed up for more volunteering. It's not too hard to take on more stuff, what is really hard is knowing that the few hours i do get in between now and the end sept/beginning of oct will hardly make an impression. How is three months worth of extra voluteering going to show dedication?! the volunteering that i sign up for now will probably only have an impact on my third application, not my second

 

This isn't true. I started volunteering at several organizations the month that we had to submit our applications. It may not show long term dedication, but it shows dedication nonetheless. And if those volunteer positions have a huge impact on your life (which mine did.) then like what dumdedum said you can talk about it at your interview. Use it to help you.

 

Probably the most satisfying and impactful volunteering I've done was the Crisis Line (as you can tell from my previous post) and by the time of the application I had only just finished the training and had yet to be on the actual phones. But it helped me a great deal on writing my essay and later for my interview!!! (Actually it had a huge impact on my interview for me!)

 

Suffice it to say that everyone is different, but don't get down that you only have a few months at the Volunteer position. Med schools know this. Several US schools will let you resubmit your resume up until the day they make a decision.

 

Don't give up. It took me 3 years to get in. If you really want and you work for it, you'll get it.

[Dr.McCool]

Hey apples

 

good post

 

 

Thanks

[Biochemnerd]

i just wonder if there is one last wave for adm to take people off the list? It seems like there is no movement at all while I still check my status on a daily basis.

________

Vapir Air One 5.0 Vaporizer W/ Inflation Kit

[supa76]

it seems like there will be just two or three random acceptances over the rest of the summer - not so much of a 'wave' anymore.

 

i would personally really like to get off the list either today or tomorrow. i'm all packed to leave for school in detroit, leaving on sunday, so it would be nice to hear something before i start driving across the country.

 

ok, alllll ready here...

[AnxiousBoy]

I just got my rejection after waitlist.

 

I just wanted to add my thoughts about this application process in general. I know that a lot of you want to stay optimistic and even feel encouraged by people who have applied twice or three times before getting in. However, do understand that UBC might not be the road for you. I wanna show the other side of this story, where i've been trying for 4 years to get into UBC. Luckily, I took some good advice from some that I should not be picky with where I want to study if I was to become a doctor. I applied to the states as well this year, and was fortunate enough to be accepted there. What I'm trying to say is, each school has its own perspective of their ideal student, and not all schools will be the right fit for you. If you are dead set on studying medicine, then perhaps, you may need to open your eyes beyond UBC even if you believe your personal circumstances makes UBC the ideal and the only choice.

[Biochemnerd]

i got my rejection too.

 

I am interested to know why i got rejected this time. They advised to improve 2 things last year, mcat and ref letter. I improve my MCAT by 10 points. I hope it's not the ref issue again. Anyways, I will book an advice session asap. i will keep everyone posted

________

Water bongs

[doc12345]

regrets too.

snif snif

[tommy1978]

I just checked and I am still on the waitlist. I must be next in line!! Just kidding.

 

 

What a load of crap this process is. I mean, am I supposed to be happy that the dream is still alive for me or disappointed because I won't get my rejection feeback until later in the summer?? I am almost numb to the whole thing now.

 

To all those that got the boot today, I feel your pain.

[AnxiousBoy]

Biochemnerd,

 

I checked up your stats from other postings. If I were you, I would apply to Harvard with your 38 on the MCAT and GPA of roughly 3.8+ (I'm guess on this one) and a strong research background. Of course, I don't know what your other background are, but I would think that you would be competitive to receive an interview. I think you have a shot, especially since you've scored 10/10 previously on you UBC interviews. You may be a bit late if you start now, but it's worth a shot. I'd much rather go to Harvard than UBC.

 

I totally know what you mean by being snubbed for having a research background (even if it only indirectly affected your/my application by sucking so much time out of our lives and preventing us from doing more "brownie point" activity). My 5 years of research which I have gotten no help whatsoever in this application process will finally bear fruit this year, as it is finally completed and ready for submission. We are going to try Nature Medicine first, and my supervisor is confident that it will make it. First Author publication, not too shabby. Although UBC will not recognize me for it, I'll just give myself a pat in the back for a job well done, and a noble contribution to the medical community.

[Masaki]

ugh, I really want to apply to the states too, but my parents say it's way too expensive (especially compared to UBC for me as an in province)... The only way I'd be able to pay for it, is if I work for a while after I graduate. (and the only job I can probably get with my degree is a warehouse job)

 

I also hear that the pay for a medical intern is really low, so that makes it even longer before I could pay off any debts

 

Does anyone have any good advice on how I could pay my way through a US medschool? I'm still kinda young and don't know so much about financial stuff, so some advice in Layman terms would be greatly appreciated =)

 

I don't think my marks are good enuff for scholarships either

[AnxiousBoy]

Masaki,

 

Have you been rejected too?

 

Why do you feel that the states is too expensive? UBC's tuition is $14,000/year while the states varies from 30,000 to 40,000 depending on the school. I am going to assume that the living expense and all other will be equal (but in actuality Vancouver is more expensive to live than anywhere in the states except for new york, san fran and a few others). So, you are on the hook for maybe an extra 70,000 more + exchange rate (although this parity talk is really getting to me now, hehe). I think 70,000 is a worthwhile investment if you are serious about wanting to become a doctor. Besides, for each year you miss out trying to get your foot into UBC's door, you are ultimately losing 150,000+ in lost wages.

 

Personally, I feel that a medical education should be financed on your own instead of getting help from your parents. The most obvious means is bank loans, which you should think of as being an investment on your future. I am sick and tired of people here, especially the BC student federation whining and complaining about how high their ~4000/year tuition is. It's an investment on yourself. Suck it up or choose not to go to university. I personally chose to go to the states, financed on my own the 30,000+/year tuition, and I have no complaints. Remember, everything is attainable; its just a matter of how much you are willing to compromise with your lifestyle.

 

As you can tell, I'm not having a good day today. Sorry about the abruptness.

[soulstress]

I got rejected post-waitlist too. What are everyone's plans for next year?

[doc12345]

just to be sure here, so I guess that those rejected are too far down on the list so they rejected us?

[Biochemnerd]

Biochemnerd,

 

I checked up your stats from other postings. If I were you, I would apply to Harvard with your 38 on the MCAT and GPA of roughly 3.8+ (I'm guess on this one) and a strong research background. Of course, I don't know what your other background are, but I would think that you would be competitive to receive an interview. I think you have a shot, especially since you've scored 10/10 previously on you UBC interviews. You may be a bit late if you start now, but it's worth a shot. I'd much rather go to Harvard than UBC.

 

I totally know what you mean by being snubbed for having a research background (even if it only indirectly affected your/my application by sucking so much time out of our lives and preventing us from doing more "brownie point" activity). My 5 years of research which I have gotten no help whatsoever in this application process will finally bear fruit this year, as it is finally completed and ready for submission. We are going to try Nature Medicine first, and my supervisor is confident that it will make it. First Author publication, not too shabby. Although UBC will not recognize me for it, I'll just give myself a pat in the back for a job well done, and a noble contribution to the medical community.

 

I know I shouldn't type anything right now cuz I am completely pissed by the rejection and nothing good would probably be typed out. i am pissed because I did what the adm told me to do last year: improve my MCAT and get a better reference. I spent almost a month in Koerner library just to study for my MCAT. I missed out tons of valuable times with my family for da stupid exam. For the reference, I squeezed extra times to work several hours a week in a lab operating mass spec machines just to know someone who can write me a good reference letter. With more exp that i put down in the past year's application about training lifeguards, wind surfers, sailers, coaching high school basketball and volleyball, and teaching snowboarding and scuba diving (basically I have been utilized all the resources I have as a teacher and a prof snowboarder to improve my extracuricular activities). With all these extra part times jobs that have deprived my personal life, I can't believe I still got rejected. I can't wait to see why they rejected me this time.

 

For the US schools, I will start to get more info about them. By the way, thank you for recommending me Harvard Med, but I don't think I stand a chance since I cann't even get into this stupid UBC Med.

 

Actually, I don't really have a strong research background. During my undergrad, I only published a paper in Virology, second author in another insignificant paper, one of the 100's of authors in that SARS paper, and 2 additional years of research without any promising results. LOL..I spend 6 months to have my name on 3 different papers while wasted 2 years on 3 never-ending projects that I gave up at the end. If you consider undergard thesis as research, probably I would have an additional year of research. Apparently, my prof think I am research material while I hated research after experiencing endless failures in his lab. By the way, your possible publication in nature med is well better than all my research exp combined.

________

How To Roll Blunts

[Biochemnerd]

I just checked and I am still on the waitlist. I must be next in line!! Just kidding.

 

 

What a load of crap this process is. I mean, am I supposed to be happy that the dream is still alive for me or disappointed because I won't get my rejection feeback until later in the summer?? I am almost numb to the whole thing now.

 

To all those that got the boot today, I feel your pain.

 

I think you really have a great chance here. Keep up your hope. wish you all the good luck.

________

VAPIR AIR ONE REVIEW

[dr nomis]

...I spent almost a month in Koerner library just to study for my MCAT. I missed out tons of valuable times with my family for da stupid exam. ...

 

Obviously you are disappointed. It is so hard to handle when you work so hard for something, and expect it to happen, and then it doesn't. And the MCAT is a stupid exam. Nobody likes it.

 

For me one of the most consoling things to hear was that getting in to medical school...anywhere... is a huge crapshoot. Every year students with seemingly perfect credentials get the kaibosch, while some with poor academics, no extracurriculars, or absent social skills are given the golden ticket. That's why persistence pays off. There are people in my class who have applied 4, 5, and 6 times. Sometimes you just have to play the game of luck until your number comes up.

 

But that's not what I am responding to say. Before I move on, let me say that I have tried to be very supportive in this forum and have always tried to provide extensive, timely, and accurate information in a helpful manner. So, before people jump on me for breaking character and being harsh here and saying that I'm in no position to empathize with an unsuccessful applicant because I 'made it,' I just want to say that once again I am telling it like it is with the best interests of the reader in mind.

 

That being said - in general, some pre-medical students need to do a serious reality check and determine if they actually know what medical school and medicine is like.

 

I'm saying this because suppose you do get into medical school next year, and you're surrounded by medical students - even now, surrounded by pre-meds who have worked so hard and still get the big 'NO' - you are simply going to get no sympathy when you say that you have worked hard and have made large sacrifices to be in a position to even apply. We all have.

 

I know this is a place to be supportive and console people when they are going through the rough times, but I also need to be completely honest in an attempt to be helpful, even though it might not seem like it. When you look forward and think of medical school, what do you think it will be like?

If giving up one month to study for a test and not seeing your family during that time was hard for you, sorry for being completely blunt here, but how on earth are you going to make it through medical school?

 

It's not a golden patch of roses once you get an acceptance letter. Nobody can put into words how hard medical school is, or how much sacrifices medical students have to make. There are lawyers and engineers in our class who would tell you that medical school is the hardest thing they have ever done. The only thing that I have been able to think of that medical school could be anything like is boot camp (having known someone who has been through it and called it "a living hell,") and that's over in a measly 12 weeks. I don't need to write here how long medical school is + res + fellowship, but it's definitely not a short 12 weeks.

 

Let me try to tell you how hard it is.

 

You'll hear some people say that med school is easier than undergrad. That's true, in a way. That's how I felt. For the first few months of each semester, with finals comfortably far away, it was no big deal; the classes were enjoyable, demands were low.

 

But when finals came, it was a completely different story. Even in our first year, most students in the class spent probably on average about ten weeks really studying hard - harder than they have ever studied for anything before - for our spring finals. There is absolutely no comparison to undergrad in the volume and intensity of the demands placed on us. Our stack of notes that we had to know - in detail - for exams was about 2 feet high.

 

People had no time to do anything other than wake, study, eat, sleep, and barely otherwise take care of themselves. Seeing family was, in most cases, out of the question. A lot of people were calling friends and family in a crying emotional mess because the stress was so intense. Others couldn't sleep because they were having bona fide anxiety attacks. Some people were medicating themselves to try and get as close as they could to baseline even though their bodies were screaming out for them to stop the abuse. I know this sounds over the top but I assure you this all happened. I had never seen anything like it before.

 

And STILL, with all this stress and work, a good 90% of the students I talked to (a lot) thought they were going to FAIL the exams! Can you imagine the stress of working that hard and still thinking you will fail! Even after the tests nobody really knew how they did. Some people were convinced that they were going to have to re-write. For most of us we ended up somehow passing, but some did have to re-write.

 

And it only gets worse. I know I have only done 1 year so I cannot accurately speak to anything beyond, but from what I know, 2nd year is much harder than first. And 3rd year is like 2nd year, except you are also having the experience of starting a new job, being on the wards, dealing with doctors and residents and nurses and patients, having responsibility and a pager and a call schedule, and having to study for North American standardized exams in whatever "free" time you have. You'll have the added stress of trying to get into the residency you want in the location you want - and that's hard enough if you have a spouse that can move with you if needs be; don't even ask what it is like if you're dating/married to someone in medical school and both want to get into a res in the same city. Residency can be brutal. Fellowship is just more years of it.

 

And even once the schooling ends, it doesn't mean everybody is suddenly relaxed and happy. Not everyone gets into a lifestyle specialty. Some doctors get paged in the middle of the night, even when they're not on call. Some surgeons will be on 1 in 4 call for their entire careers. Others will round at 5am and not get home until 7pm. Your family life and personal life will not be what it could be if you were running banker's hours, and chances are, you won't be.

 

And medicine does claim its casualties. I know a couple both in third year med that literally hand off the baby from the husband to wife as one came in the door from being at the hospital and as the other left. Someone in my class has been forced to repeat a year, which obviously brings with it the considerations and mental anguish of whether or not they are in the right program. A girl in 3rd year med at UBC right now is dropping out because she can't handle medicine and raising a family, as is being discussed in another thread.

 

I'm sorry for coming off so harsh and blunt here, and I know I don't know your entire situation, but if a month away from your family is as difficult for you as I'm interpreting, please, please reconsider if medical school is right for you - I am trying to be honest and helpful here for your own good - before you get too deep into something that will demand so much more of you.

 

I know what it would be like to hear this as a pre-med and how hard this would be to swallow - I don't mean to be the dream gremlin snatching away your biggest lifelong fantasy - but if seeing your family and having free time and not having to work so hard are so valuable to you, there is a possibility you will hate medical school and wish you had never gotten yourself into it, and perhaps worse yet your family may not understand and they'll wonder why you seem to be alienating yourself from them.

 

Even if you do reconsider and can be completely honest with yourself and can still say that medicine is still right for you, then you will at least be much more prepared to face the challenges to come.

 

I sincerely wish you and everyone all the best in finding the path that is best for themselves and that they will find true happiness in it. Please, be honest with yourself.

[Masaki]

Masaki,

 

Have you been rejected too?

 

Why do you feel that the states is too expensive? UBC's tuition is $14,000/year while the states varies from 30,000 to 40,000 depending on the school. I am going to assume that the living expense and all other will be equal (but in actuality Vancouver is more expensive to live than anywhere in the states except for new york, san fran and a few others). So, you are on the hook for maybe an extra 70,000 more + exchange rate (although this parity talk is really getting to me now, hehe). I think 70,000 is a worthwhile investment if you are serious about wanting to become a doctor. Besides, for each year you miss out trying to get your foot into UBC's door, you are ultimately losing 150,000+ in lost wages.

 

Personally, I feel that a medical education should be financed on your own instead of getting help from your parents. The most obvious means is bank loans, which you should think of as being an investment on your future. I am sick and tired of people here, especially the BC student federation whining and complaining about how high their ~4000/year tuition is. It's an investment on yourself. Suck it up or choose not to go to university. I personally chose to go to the states, financed on my own the 30,000+/year tuition, and I have no complaints. Remember, everything is attainable; its just a matter of how much you are willing to compromise with your lifestyle.

 

As you can tell, I'm not having a good day today. Sorry about the abruptness.

 

yeah, don't worry, I prefer people who are direct when I seek advice.

 

I live in vancouver with my parents, so the cost of living wouldn't be nearly as much as if I were to live away from home (as I discovered from my undergrad). So when I take that into consideration, the cost of a US medical education is ridiculously more than if I just went to UBC.

But you do make a good point about the lost wages. I never considered that.

 

My dilema is:

say I were to get into a US med school but not UBC next year. I would have a tough time deciding whether to just go to the US school and take on the extra tuition and cost of living, or wait another year (while working) and apply to UBC again the following year. If I were to get into UBC the following year I would still be saving quite a bit, even with the lost 150k wages for that extra year. However, if I were to keep failing at UBC year after year, just going to the US in the beginning would have been the better choice.

 

I would without a doubt make heavy compromises to my lifestyle to become a doctor. I'm just trying to find the most economically reasonable and affordable path of getting there.

 

I agree with you that 4000/year is an awesome price for what you get out of your education. You could even cover that with a summer job

 

However, I still think there's nothing wrong with having my parents loan me the money for my medical education if they can afford to. That way, I wouldn't have to worry about interest as I would if I had a bank loan. I think it would be somewhat senseless to be spending money that doesn't need to be spent on interest, if your parents can just loan you the money.

But, having your parents pay for your medical education is a different story. I would pay my parents back for the money they invested in my education.

[AnxiousBoy]

Biochemnerd,

 

Don't discount yourself regarding US medical schools. If you realize that you have some competitive advantage over your US counterpart, you should do extremely well. For example, did you know that US schools' grade system is based on a normal distribution instead of a fixed achievement system? At my school, no one has a 4.0, and maybe 1 in 100 has 3.9+ because at some point in you education, you will come across a course that was much more difficult, or your classmates just surprised you with their intellectual level. The US schools don't know what system you are in, but rather, they take their scores off AMCAS as equals. Mean accepted GPA at most schools is like 3.5-3.8. Take advantage of the fact that your school is more "liberal" with their grades. Second, your MCAT puts you at 99% percentile. Since there are around 50,000 applicants each year, you are among the top 500. Since each school interviews around 1000 applicants, you have to think that you are covered here. Third, you say that your research background is unimpressive. I beg to differ. How much you do expect from a student with no post-undergraduate degree? The schools will see that you have a long list of productive experience and take serious consideration in you. The top schools will especially be impressed.

 

I think most Canadians have this glorified image of people who have attended places like Harvard. But in all honesty, they are no different than anyone else. I should know; I graduated from an Ivy League school. They are not Olympic athletes; did not cure any disease; did not lead a world wide crusade against hunger. They were just strong with their academics and spend their extracurriculars on medically related and non-related activities to show that they are strong and ambitious people.

 

I have also met many Canadians on my interview tour who have graduated from Canada. Again, I would reiterate that there was nothing special about them, and most admitted that they were uneasy about getting an acceptance from Canada. The only commonality I could find was that they all had high grades (3.95+) which is realistically unattainable in the States, but gave them a competitive edge.

 

Masaki,

 

I have nothing against obtaining funds from you parents if you have the means. What I was trying to get at is that parents tend to have a say in your life if you are dependent on them financially. Just as in your case, they start to become budget conscious, and limit where you are able to study. If you're financially independent, you will realize that you have more freedom to make compromises. In my situation, I was planning to widen my net globally to Australia, UK, and Caribbean if things didn't work out this year. My parents are deceased, but if they were here and I was dependent on them, I doubt I would have thought of the globe trotting that I felt now. As for living with your parents, I doubt that would last long after you realize that most if not all of your classmates were on their own as well as wanting to be closer to school for convenience.

[D-Rock]

EDIT: post retracted. Replaced with the following to demonstrate what I did to improve my profile for the next application:

 

Application #1 - Interview, reject

Career: 4th year (of 5 years) in B.Sc.

Strengths: Non-academic, MCAT

Weaknesses: Academic, interview

Action plan: complete degree to improve grades, more ECs

 

Application #2, one year later - interview, withdrew (personal reasons)

Career: Graduated B.Sc.

Strengths: Non-academic, MCAT, interview

Weaknesses: Academic (less so)

Action plan: entered workforce as clerical staff at UBC, more ECs

 

Application #3, one year later - waitlist, reject

Career: Graduated B.Sc., working

Strengths: Non-academic, MCAT, interview

Weaknesses: Academic (less so)

Action plan: entered M.Sc., more ECs

 

Application #4, two years later - accepted

 

Sometimes it takes a lot of attempts, and even though I didn't really do much to change myself the first few times, I somehow got closer, illustrating the crapshoot nature of the system. What was encouraging for me was that I was seeing progress in my standing as an applicant each time. Eventually I realized that grades were my weakness and took steps to fix that, because by that point, it was the only thing I really could fix. Assess yourself, and fix your weakness (but don't forget what your strengths are).

[Masaki]

Biochemnerd,

 

Masaki,

 

I have nothing against obtaining funds from you parents if you have the means. What I was trying to get at is that parents tend to have a say in your life if you are dependent on them financially. Just as in your case, they start to become budget conscious, and limit where you are able to study. If you're financially independent, you will realize that you have more freedom to make compromises. In my situation, I was planning to widen my net globally to Australia, UK, and Caribbean if things didn't work out this year. My parents are deceased, but if they were here and I was dependent on them, I doubt I would have thought of the globe trotting that I felt now. As for living with your parents, I doubt that would last long after you realize that most if not all of your classmates were on their own as well as wanting to be closer to school for convenience.

 

kk I think i see what you're getting at. However, I think there's a little misunderstanding here. I was just seeking advice on how I could personally get money to pay my way through a US school, as my parents can't afford to offer much aid(if you read my original post). I think this means that I am willing to make, and have the freedom to make compromises if need be. I do admit that I am dependant on my parents to some degree, but I think it's unfair to assume that I am as limited as you seem to be implying by them. Sure my parents are budget conscious, but they're not in any way limiting where I am able to study. They're just limiting how much they can help me out depending on where I study. I'm was just trying to find out how people who don't have weathly parents manage to pay their way through a US medschool.

I don't see what my classmates living on their own has anything to do with me deciding whether I live alone or not. Anyways, I've lived on my own for a few years, and I've come to the conclusion that living with my parents has way more conveniences than living on my own close to campus. If I go to UBC, I will without a doubt be living with my parents.

[AnxiousBoy]

Hmm, one day after rejection from UBC, I get an interview from Sydney. First choice preference too! This really lessens my anger. I'm a bit torn now. I know I should just go to the states, but I am tempted by the warm beaches, beach bunnies, and bunny kangaroos. The strange thing is, the interview is at the Life sciences building! Oh the painful memories......

[meds]

Since no one else has commented, I just had to express my thoughts:

 

Nomis and D-rock, your comments come off as very pretentious. What I got from your comments: “Of course I can handle it, but perhaps YOU can’t.” What you have said may be true, but I do not think that you are warranted in telling people you have never met to reconsider their dreams. It’s really not your place, and if similar comments were directed at me I would be offended.

 

A couple points I would like to make:

 

DrNomis: "but if a month away from your family is as difficult for you as I'm interpreting, please, please reconsider if medical school is right for you” … I think he was referring to the fact that time spent studying was unnecessary, not the fact that he couldn’t handle it. I’m sure when it is necessary he would have no problem.

 

D-rock: “Well, let's start by saying that I am a jerk. I really am.” …Really? Congratulations! “Let's be clear: you don't need to be extremely smart to do well in medical school, relative to the applicant pool.” …D-rock, I will assume that you fit this category quite well. Let ME be clear: you DO have to be smart to be a GOOD doctor IMO. May God bless your future patients if they have to put up with a middle of the pack doctor and self-proclaimed jerk. “I put me above other people”…I hope you don’t put YOU above your patients.

 

Meds

[Masaki]

this topic has turned pretty sour since rejections were out.. maybe we should all (including me) cool down a bit

[dr nomis]

Nomis and D-rock, your comments come off as very pretentious.

Thanks Meds for coming out of the woodwork and using your first post (or perhaps you are an experienced poster hiding behind a new name) to confront people trying to tell it like it is.

It's a shame that when two people who have been through hell, and want to warn people who might unknowingly be entering that same hell for possibly the wrong reasons, that they get accused of being pretentious.

Then again, it doesn't surprise me that you'd interpret my post as pretentious, because if you look at my post I did warn that what I was about to say would sound harsh ("...before people jump on me for breaking character and being harsh here and saying that I'm in no position to empathize with an unsuccessful applicant because I 'made it,'..."). I’m just surprised that you would come out against us for trying to help pre-meds by providing this reality check, because if you read on you'll see that I also said that even though it was pretentious, I chose to say it anyway because I had a deeper message with the best interests of the reader in mind. I had a message that I thought should be heard, one that I would have liked to mail back in time to my pre-med self.

Maybe I should have said that even though I love medicine, all that stuff I said about how hard 2nd year and 3rd year are going to be scares me. That's the truth. Maybe that will make me come off as less pretentious. But moving on…

What I got from your comments: “Of course I can handle it, but perhaps YOU can’t.”

Exactly; perhaps some people can’t handle medical school (that’s why not everyone in the world applies). That’s the truth, so what’s wrong with saying that? If it’s true, it’s not pretentious (you can look that up).

Perhaps some people can’t handle medical school, and yet they aren’t aware of it because they have a false impression of what it will be like. Those are the people I am afraid for, for whom I wrote my post – for anybody who thinks life will be easier, they’ll have more free time, or be able to see their family more when they get into medical school. If they do think so, they will be wrong, and they won’t be able to handle it. Graduate, yeah, they will – statistically speaking, virtually everyone who gets in does – but they’ll graduate as a bitter, cynical doctor, hating their chosen profession for the sacrifices they’ve been forced to make for it, for taking away their family, their free time, their friends, their social life, everything they once were.

That’s when motivation also comes into play, something else that has to be carefully considered. If someone is trying to get into medicine for a great lifestyle, for pride, for prestige, or because their parents pushed them, to name a few of the wrong reasons, when the shizz-nit hits the fizz-an, these will not get you through. You’ll realize you were dumb to choose medicine for any of those reasons, for example, the money –just like this med student did http://ifinding.blogspot.com/2006/11/dont-become-doctor-10-hate-me.html. And when you’re facing the hardest finals of your life, you’ll say to yourself, “This isn’t worth the money I’ll eventually make.”

If you want to get personal, to respond to your comment, I do know that I can handle medical school because statistically speaking, I’m virtually guaranteed to graduate since I made it in. That’s not being pretentious. But deeper than that, I have taken the time to consider and reconsider my motives through thought and action, trial and error. And every time I've done so, even though sometimes it's taken me a while, I always come back to the fact that my passion for medicine is genuine and unwavering and my true driving force. And for that reason, I do think that I'll make it through... through to a rewarding career where every day I can say "this is the only job for me." So in that sense, yeah, I think I can handle it. And perhaps other people - people with the wrong motives - can't.

I said I was going to come across as blunt and asked that people see the deeper message. I’m sorry you chose to challenge us for providing a deeper message in a blunt manner; maybe you didn’t see the deeper message. Not quite sure how else to do it, though.

What you have said may be true, but I do not think that you are warranted in telling people you have never met to reconsider their dreams. It’s really not your place, and if similar comments were directed at me I would be offended.

If similar comments were directed at me when I was in pre-med, yeah, I'd initially feel offended too (as I said in my post: "I know what it would be like to hear this as a pre-med and how hard this would be to swallow"). However, it is valuable for any pre-med to know ahead of time how hard medical school will be, and how important it is that they're getting into it for the right reasons.

But let's talk about your statement a bit further. First of all, what's the harm of me telling someone, regardless of whether or not I have met them, that "you should reconsider your dreams"? Sure, it may sting at first, but let's think about it some more:

· What's the worst that can happen if I tell you to reconsider your dreams, and you do, and correctly conclude that your motives are pure? At first: "Ouch, this stings, this guy says that maybe my dream is not for me; I'm offended." ... [3 months later] ... "I have put in a lot more thought and research into this and I have found out that this is indeed right for me. I feel so much better now knowing that I won't hate myself for going into medicine. That guy was actually trying to help and wasn't being offensive at all."

· What's the worst that can happen I tell you to reconsider, and you do, and correctly conclude that your motives are all the wrong reasons? At first: "Ouch, this stings, this guy says that maybe my dream is not for me; I'm offended." ... [3 months later] ... "I have put a lot more thought and research into this and I have found out that this is indeed not what I should be doing with my life. I feel so much better knowing that I am not going into medicine, because I would have hated myself if I did. That guy was actually trying to help and wasn't being offensive at all."

Secondly, why is it not my "place" to tell people to reconsider? Given the above, that telling someone to reconsider could be the best thing for them, whose place is it? Who would know better to tell them than someone who has seen how difficult it is, has seen the casualties of medicine, has seen how dumb you'd have to be to subject yourself to such a grueling experience if you were just doing it for the money or the glory, has seen people who have made it through and hate themselves for putting themselves through it, and has seen people who have dropped out? Who else is going to even know to tell them to reconsider?

Let ME be clear: you DO have to be smart to be a GOOD doctor IMO. May God bless your future patients if they have to put up with a middle of the pack doctor and self-proclaimed jerk.

Strange, I interpreted D-rock's post as containing humility and honest reflection, because he states that this is what medical school has done to him because of the sacrifices he has had to make. Perhaps he is trying to warn any potential applicants that they could end up having to make similar sacrifices? That medical school won’t give you more free time to see your family or volunteer or whatever?

Let ME be clear: you DO have to be smart to be a GOOD doctor IMO. May God bless your future patients if they have to put up with a middle of the pack doctor...

I'm not sure why you're calling D-rock a "middle-of-the-pack doctor" when he said that when it comes to marks, he said he was "above average in nearly everything." By taking his comment "you don't need to be extremely smart to do well in medical school" you assumed he wasn't smart. I'll pause so everyone can hear you say "oops."

Let ME be clear: you DO have to be smart to be a GOOD doctor IMO.

Actually, the definition of "a good doctor" depends on who you ask. Ask almost any patient and they will say that a good doctor is the one who listened to them, was approachable, and wasn't rude (this blog cites a journal article which has evidence for that). The average patient doesn't care if a doctor is smart. They just care if the doctor treats them with respect. (Shame that the stress and sacrifices that the medical program demands turns doctors into jerks.) But then again, we already concluded that D-rock is above average. And if you’re above average in a medical school class, you’re pretty damn smart.

I guess what it might come down to is perhaps you're lashing out because possibly you are feeling the "sting" I talked about earlier, the "sting" that comes when you answer "no" to the question D-rock put so impeccably: "Have you ever considered not being a doctor? Saying 'no' is a bad sign." Because you've chosen to provide no identifying information about yourself, I'm not sure where you are at in your medical training or even if you are a pre-med. But if you are so offended by our reality check that you'd confront us on it, and at risk of offending you more, even though it has been written here with helpful intention and with the reader’s ultimate best interest in mind, I’ll venture a guess that perhaps you are a person who should also spend some time reconsidering their life path.