For those of us still waiting....

[mrgreek]

for those of us on the waitlist, its not only good news, but great...but the bad news is...

[superchargedman]

sorry, alastriss. i just went over past posts and noticed that i misread one of the posts: we won't hear shiiiiyaaaat til next week. that one was for you greek.

________

Magic flight launch box

[2012FTW]

I think its completely unfair that they are going to go through their waiting list way after other schools have. in the end that means they arent getting the higher ranked candidates and will have to go deeper into their WL. And people who were ranked high on the waiting list may get kicked off and will have to go to a not-their-first-choice- school

 

Can't people just sacrifice their deposit and switch after they accept at another school? I am actually curious to know if this is possible.

[Jakbeh Quik]

hmm, im not sure, but i thought once the deadline for when provisional acceptances become firm passes, you are automatically removed from any other waitlists you are on (hence the term firm acceptances)

 

So you can't sacrifice your deposit, because you won't be getting in anywhere else (since u were taken off waitlist)

 

For instance if u got in school A, and waitlisted at school B (say rank of #10, but you don't know this), you'd prov. accept school A while hoping to hear back from school B. But if the deadline is June 13th (in our case) and school B doesn't start calling until say June 16th, you wouldn't hear anything from school B because by June 13th you're already firmly accepted and taken off other waitlists. this is good for those on the waitlist at school B who are ranked below this applicant, because school B's waitlist on June 16th now consists of rank 1-9, and 11-etc. if school B takes the top 20 for instance, the available pool is now 1-9 and 11-21, which benefits person ranked #21 who wouldnt have gotten in had school B phoned sooner and got #10 to switch over before the deadline.

 

but im not 100% positive, so correct me if im wrong lol

[KennethToronto]

Can't people just sacrifice their deposit and switch after they accept at another school? I am actually curious to know if this is possible.

 

After the date provisional acceptances become firm, your deposit gets consumed and then you will be automatically withdrawn from every other Ontario medical school.

 

However, if another medical school from another provinces comes calling, then yes, you can sacrifice your deposit and go there.

 

I was told Ontario has this system setup because they have agreed not to steal each other's students, but they have no problem stealing from other provinces.

[superchargedman]

thanks for clarifying that guys. i guess it's good that i've got uofa, then. c'mon, steal me, uwo.

________

Bho hash oil

[Jikuty]

I'm pretty sure Western will be calling before the provisional date. However, that still puts some people at a disadvantage as Jakbeh stated, because by the the time Western starts calling (I'm guessing Monday), other schools will have probably started the second round of their waitlists.

[Alastriss]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I really need to think some of my posts through . When I threw out the 72% I meant thats the percent acceptane rate after the interview stage. Thus x/y = 0.72 where x is the number of offers sent out to SWOMEN interviewees and Y is the number of swomen interviewees.

 

Don't feel so bad fellow nonswomens, its an uphill battle but we've already made some really significant progress, we might just be ranked really highly on the WL. here's to hopin

[hulkrules]

thanks for clarification,

Do you have a link to that because although I am not doubting the number I just find it odd that in the class where 37% would be SWOMEN (http://www.swomen.ca/uploads/Newsletter/newsletter_vol4_final.pdf final paragraph)

that would mean 55 students would be SWOMEN which would then mean that only 76 SWOMEN would be interviewed.

 

During your pre interview where you could socialize, did you meet many people from the SWOMEN area?

[ploughboy]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I really need to think some of my posts through . When I threw out the 72% I meant thats the percent acceptane rate after the interview stage. Thus x/y = 0.72 where x is the number of offers sent out to SWOMEN interviewees and Y is the number of swomen interviewees.

 

Don't feel so bad fellow nonswomens, its an uphill battle but we've already made some really significant progress, we might just be ranked really highly on the WL. here's to hopin

 

Hey Alastriss,

 

You're talking about offers, or acceptances? So if Mary-Jane Swomen gets offered a place at UWO and a place at UT (*shudder*) and for some crazy reason decides to go to Toronto she would still count in that 72%?

 

BTW - what's the source of that number? Just curious.

 

pb

[Alastriss]

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/administration/Deans-newsletters/Deans_Report_2007.pdf

 

Go to slide 35 on that. If you in fact work it out, the acceptance rate is 73% for swomen. Interesting thing tho, If you type in 2006 in the URL and go to slide 32 then you will see that the year before had SWOMEN at 81% acceptance. I dont think ANY interviewee pool has an acceptance rate this high. This, along with the fact that it was prevously stated that SWOMEN applicants get an advantage post interview, show strong evidence to an advantage pre-interview.

 

Btw I might as well put the report for 2006 as well

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/administration/Deans-newsletters/Deans_Report_2006.pdf

 

 

That is why I think that the non-swomen applicants who are competitive might as well be waitlisted. I feel that they admit relatively the same number every year, so they may have some sort of ballpark quota. Considering the large majority of acceptances here are held my swomen applicants, hopefully our turn will be coming up next week.

[hulkrules]

thanks for that link,

Looks good for SWOMEN, 23 people from the entire area not getting in are great odds for me.

[classA]

thanks for that link,

Looks good for SWOMEN, 23 people from the entire area not getting in are great odds for me.

Not when your one of the 23 last year and waitlisted this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alastriss]

thanks for that link,

Looks good for SWOMEN, 23 people from the entire area not getting in are great odds for me.

 

Yeah but you have to realize it seems that most of the swomen acceptances have already been sent out, so its not as good as it seems for us right now. These numbers are good before may 15th.

[ploughboy]

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/administration/Deans-newsletters/Deans_Report_2007.pdf

 

Go to slide 35 on that. If you in fact work it out, the acceptance rate is 73% for swomen. Interesting thing tho, If you type in 2006 in the URL and go to slide 32 then you will see that the year before had SWOMEN at 81% acceptance. I dont think ANY interviewee pool has an acceptance rate this high. This, along with the fact that it was prevously stated that SWOMEN applicants get an advantage post interview, show strong evidence to an advantage pre-interview.

 

Btw I might as well put the report for 2006 as well

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/administration/Deans-newsletters/Deans_Report_2006.pdf

 

 

That is why I think that the non-swomen applicants who are competitive might as well be waitlisted. I feel that they admit relatively the same number every year, so they may have some sort of ballpark quota. Considering the large majority of acceptances here are held my swomen applicants, hopefully our turn will be coming up next week.

 

Ya, I guess it doesn't get much more authoritative than Dean Herbert. Thanks for the pointer to interesting info.

 

So by the numbers, 33% of those interviewed ultimately accept a spot in the class (147/445). All comers, regardless of geographic status.

 

Swomen applicants are only 20% of the applicant pool, but 72% of Swomen applicants were given offers. Wow! What's going on there, I wonder?

 

A little over half of Swomen applicants (48/85 = 56%) accepted offers at UWO. We don't know how many offers were extended to the 360 non-Swomen applicants, but 28% ( (445-85)/(147-48) ) of them accepted a spot at UWO.

 

So being from a non-Swomen area seems to drop one's chances of matriculating at UWO by about five percentage points (33-28).

 

On the flip side, Swomen applicants are 2x (56%/28%) more likely to accept a spot at UWO than non-Swomen applicants.

 

either UWO is doing a great job of selling itself to local applicants, or the split GPA/MCAT cutoffs are giving a chance to applicants who weren't competitive elsewhere.

 

 

One of the obsessed waitlisters is going to have to check my math...

[danceprincess88]

does anyone else find those numbers disturbing?

 

here's a thought:

Western gives a lot of positions to a few students of questionable incentive from SWO. All the other students who often are highly motivated have to compete for the few remaining spots. Your chances of getting in if you are not from SWO are slim. In the future this narrow minded, inbred approach is going to impact negatively on the quality of the institution. The students aren't going to be high achievers. Western won't be reknowned. I would think alumni that have supported their alma mater in the past are going to think twice in the future when they appreciate that Western is no longer an international or even a national school but really a regional institution. The medical school education really is supported by all residents of Ontario and students from different areas should have equal access. Based on my knowledge of Western's approach I think that selecting appropriate students for medical school to treat Ontario Residents in the future is too important to be left in the hands of Universities. I think the Ontario government who funds the education should take this over and guarantee equal access to students of all areas. If they want to limit access to Western from some other areas than they should limit SWO residents from access to Medical Schools in the other area.

 

Note: This is supposed to be a bit controversial, I do understand how statistically someone who went to highschool in SWO is more likely to set up a practice in SWO, however if we were always going by statistics we would let more men in than women because *statistically* they work more hours and see more patients. How are these rationales different? However I think the most important issue is the funding issue, the vast majority of funding towards medical education is by the ontario government NOT the southwestern ontario government.

[Alastriss]

does anyone else find those numbers disturbing?

 

here's a thought:

Western gives a lot of positions to a few students of questionable incentive from SWO. All the other students who often are highly motivated have to compete for the few remaining spots. Your chances of getting in if you are not from SWO are slim. In the future this narrow minded, inbred approach is going to impact negatively on the quality of the institution. The students aren't going to be high achievers. Western won't be reknowned. I would think alumni that have supported their alma mater in the past are going to think twice in the future when they appreciate that Western is no longer an international or even a national school but really a regional institution. The medical school education really is supported by all residents of Ontario and students from different areas should have equal access. Based on my knowledge of Western's approach I think that selecting appropriate students for medical school to treat Ontario Residents in the future is too important to be left in the hands of Universities. I think the Ontario government who funds the education should take this over and guarantee equal access to students of all areas. If they want to limit access to Western from some other areas than they should limit SWO residents from access to Medical Schools in the other area.

 

Note: This is supposed to be a bit controversial, I do understand how statistically someone who went to highschool in SWO is more likely to set up a practice in SWO, however if we were always going by statistics we would let more men in than women because *statistically* they work more hours and see more patients. How are these rationales different? However I think the most important issue is the funding issue, the vast majority of funding towards medical education is by the ontario government NOT the southwestern ontario government.

 

 

Another thing to consider is the fact that their reduced cutoffs for the mcat were because many members of the SWOMEN area were not capable of acquiring resources that allowed them to excel academically. We all know thats not entirely true. A lot of them do have access to resources to be even competitive enough for the non-swomen pool but take the advantage anyways. Its not a perfect system, but it works. I do second the fact that I pay as much as anyone else does for those med school seats, but I don't have equal access to them.

[ploughboy]

I know that it's tough sitting on a waitlist, and that it feels good to vent, but your argument doesn't hold a lot of water. 60% of Meds '11 comes from Ontario but isn't Swomen ((147 spots - 48 swomen - 12 OOP) / 147) To me that means that Western is doing a decent job of balancing regional vs province-wide interests.

 

Or maybe the inbred slackers from SW Ontario are going to contaminate the rest of the class?

[danceprincess88]

the only thing that concerns me about SWOMEN is more London people are taking advantage of it than Strathroy, Watford, etc. etc. London is hardly a rural setting where students coming from the area are first generation university students.

 

It would be interesting to see how many SWOMEN are actually from outside London and Windsor and live in a rural setting. Although Windsor is really hurting for physicians.

 

Also pb, I do see your side, I just posted to be a bit controversial, but my argument holds more weight when you look at percentages of interviewed versus offers of admission especially when you consider the lower MCAT cutoffs.

[Alastriss]

I know that it's tough sitting on a waitlist, and that it feels good to vent, but your argument doesn't hold a lot of water. 60% of Meds '11 comes from Ontario but isn't Swomen ((147 spots - 48 swomen - 12 OOP) / 147) To me that means that Western is doing a decent job of balancing regional vs province-wide interests.

 

Or maybe the inbred slackers from SW Ontario are going to contaminate the rest of the class?

 

Its not so much venting PB, maybe borderline venting, but in a cautious way so as to not troll. sure the class may have 60% of students from nonswomen areas, but that doesn't mean anything if you don't look at the number of applicants. The argument about cost is simply that non-swomen don't have t same chance at attaining the seats as a swomen applicant. The acceptance/applicant ratio is not the same - this is where my argument draws its strength from, not the raw values.Danceprincess already mentioned this in the preceeding post. This isn't an issue at all. These measures are of fundamental significance if we are go improve rural care - I completely support this.

 

UWO ought to have a devotion to rural medicine, I am not with that at all. I've seen someone walk for 5 hours straight to get to a nearby hospital to receive required medical attention (Nicaragua). I recognize the dire need for these resources and (mildly?) drastic measures, and I recognize a dire need to entice potentially dedicated and devoted people - selected based on their roots of origin.

 

What I do have a problem with is giving a ridiculous advantage to people who are considered SWOMEN by title but not in essence.

What I was alluding before, and now, is exactly what danceprincess mentioned in the preceeding post. That's plain unfair.

[Alastriss]

I know that it's tough sitting on a waitlist, and that it feels good to vent, but your argument doesn't hold a lot of water. 60% of Meds '11 comes from Ontario but isn't Swomen ((147 spots - 48 swomen - 12 OOP) / 147) To me that means that Western is doing a decent job of balancing regional vs province-wide interests.

 

Or maybe the inbred slackers from SW Ontario are going to contaminate the rest of the class?

 

Sure, but they aren't doing it as fairly as they could be. A good chunk of SWOMEN applicants don't want to go into rural medicine but will keep quiet till they get that letter, and a good chunk of non-swomen applicants may very well be interested in rural medicine but have to suffer their parent's or grandparents choice of residence.

 

Considering UT reviews individual files for a SIGNIFICANTLY largeR number of applicants than UWO, evaluating applicants' true commitment to rural medicine doesn't really seem like an entirely ludacris idea - and might yield better results!

[Sheena815]

Sure, but they aren't doing it as fairly as they could be. A good chunk of SWOMEN applicants don't want to go into rural medicine but will keep quiet till they get that letter, and a good chunk of non-swomen applicants may very well be interested in rural medicine but have to suffer their parent's or grandparents choice of residence.

 

Considering UT reviews individual files for a SIGNIFICANTLY largeR number of applicants than UWO, evaluating applicants' true commitment to rural medicine doesn't really seem like an entirely ludacris idea - and might yield better results!

 

I'm sure you're right about this, I do agree. The only problem is how would you know who is telling the truth about being genuinely committed to rural medicine? If all one had to do in order to have an advantage at UWO is declare their desire to work in the rural swomen area, everyone probably would (and many would just be lying). Doesn't NOSM require a certain number of years working in a rural setting or something? Maybe an idea would be that if students signed an agreement to do some ontario rural work, they could also have the swomen advantage? That would certainly help separate those who are serious about it. But then again, I am opposed to this practice at NOSM. I don't know. I guess no system is perfect.

[Alastriss]

I'm sure you're right about this, I do agree. The only problem is how would you know who is telling the truth about being genuinely committed to rural medicine? If all one had to do in order to have an advantage at UWO is declare their desire to work in the rural swomen area, everyone probably would (and many would just be lying). Doesn't NOSM require a certain number of years working in a rural setting or something? Maybe an idea would be that if students signed an agreement to do some ontario rural work, they could also have the swomen advantage? That would certainly help separate those who are serious about it. But then again, I am opposed to this practice at NOSM. I don't know. I guess no system is perfect.

 

Exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. You can't declare it. You would have to show it in some respect. IE volunteering abroad in a rural community with a medical program. I know one friend of mine got to go to a reserve out west and volunteered there. There is a fair bit to do for those who are committed - and that's exactly what you need in the end.

 

Dedicate a number of years to rural medicine if you choose the SWOMEN advantage. I think its only fair - i mean if they select SWOMEN on the basis of them staying the the SW medical network, then it really shouldn't be a problem - but it seems by the debate here, is that its a big 'should'.

[Jectin]

I haven't read through the entire thread but from what I gather, the gist of the convo is about the advantage given to SWOMEN applicants.

 

The truth is that yes SWOMEN applicants have a distinct advantage pre and post interview for need based and political reasons. You will be dealing with politics all throughout your medical careers and at times things may not seem fair (like a BScN with an M.A in public health telling you how to practice medicine), you just have to suck it up.

 

SWOMEN was initiated so that they could get graduating physicians out into these health derived communities. The success rate of this program is yet to be seen but to say it is going to be above 20% would be a stretch. But the truth is, even if they get 10% of the graduating class to go into a rural community, it would already be a massive achievement. The more SWOMEN medical students, the greater absolute number that will go into these communities. It is all a balancing act and I feel even a 50% SWOMEN based class would be a good balance. Someone ( I don't know who) is pressing down from the top and applying some political pressure to produce these rural doctors. Western is complying.

 

As for the ridiculous comment about being world renowned LOL, I don't think it is the graduating medical students that make the school "renowned". It is more of the faculty they are able to recruit and the contributions to the field of medicine these faculty members provide.

 

J

[hulkrules]

I haven't read through the entire thread but from what I gather, the gist of the convo is about the advantage given to SWOMEN applicants.

 

The truth is that yes SWOMEN applicants have a distinct advantage pre and post interview for need based and political reasons. You will be dealing with politics all throughout your medical careers and at times things may not seem fair (like a BScN with an M.A in public health telling you how to practice medicine), you just have to suck it up.

 

SWOMEN was initiated so that they could get graduating physicians out into these health derived communities. The success rate of this program is yet to be seen but to say it is going to be above 20% would be a stretch. But the truth is, even if they get 10% of the graduating class to go into a rural community, it would already be a massive achievement. The more SWOMEN medical students, the greater absolute number that will go into these communities. It is all a balancing act and I feel even a 50% SWOMEN based class would be a good balance. Someone ( I don't know who) is pressing down from the top and applying some political pressure to produce these rural doctors. Western is complying.

 

As for the ridiculous comment about being world renowned LOL, I don't think it is the graduating medical students that make the school "renowned". It is more of the faculty they are able to recruit and the contributions to the field of medicine these faculty members provide.

 

J

 

Do you know how many bonus points are post interview?