What are your thoughts on...

[mdDave]

I don't really care what your GPA was in comparison to mine, because when we are in med school our undergrad GPA means nothing, but my social skills mean something.

 

That's very true. However looking purely from the perspective of getting accepted I think grades are of more importance. Think about it this way, anyone can volunteer and contribute to the community regardless of social skills. Anyone can fake being the happy energetic social person for the short time of the interview. If you say that the interviews will weed these people out you in most cases wrong. What you can't fake however, is your GPA.

[dbjones]

the admission process is an imperfect system and probably forever will be. The fact that competition, especially in Canada, is so high only makes the situation worse.

[rmorelan]

That's very true. However looking purely from the perspective of getting accepted I think grades are of more importance. Think about it this way, anyone can volunteer and contribute to the community regardless of social skills. Anyone can fake being the happy energetic social person for the short time of the interview. If you say that the interviews will weed these people out you in most cases wrong. What you can't fake however, is your GPA.

 

Yeah, alas it is true. Social skills only come up if you have the base GPA. You never get to the interview stage otherwise.

 

Even Wolvenstar 3.6ish gpa - thats a great gpa for most things, but in Ontario at least he/she would be excluded from interviews at many schools. Which sucks as Wolvenstar is right, social skills really are super important!

 

I should mention it is possible for people with poor social skills to improve as well - it is just like anything else.

[n00b]

lets all just get wasted/blitzed this weekend and screw the med school dream

 

i thought that said waitlisted for a sec

[medaholic]

Just do your best. That's all YOU can control. Let other people worry about themselves. You don't have to feel sorry for people who have grades but awkward social skills. If it's such a bad situation to be in, your pity won't make a difference.

 

Like someone said, when it comes to getting into medical school, grades are the most important. Having said that, that doesn't mean you have to make doing well in school your top priority.

[ToHellInAHandbasket]

To be honest, most 'pre-meds' that I have been in classes with are fairly easy to chat with. Most can carry on a conversation and have a decent sense of humour.

 

Of course, there are those who are like robots, who dream of ketone bodies and sleep in their lab coat. Some of those people will go on to med school, some won't. Much like everyone else in the category of 'pre-med'.

 

I actually think that the *vast majority* of us have a good sense of humour. Humor is the best way to deal with the psychological trauma of knowing that your life may be school, basement apartments, and Kraft Dinner for the next 8+ years.

 

I also believe that some people can be really introverted and shy (many 'cerebral' types'), so I usually give them a little extra time to open up. Or I'll just talk to them about their interests, even if their only interest is science/med, etc. Hey, that's one of my interests too.

 

Perhaps you're also not talking to these people in the right setting. I know that while I'm in a work/educational environment, I am a much more rigid and 'professional' person, which is to be expected. Outside of that setting, I'm silly like Jim Carrey watching Jay and Silent Bob movies...

 

Basically, what I believe med schools look for (in terms of interpersonal skills):

 

1.) Can you listen to a patient, comprehend their description, communicate with them, and recap their concerns back to them?

 

2.)Can you communicate with a patient about their condition, treatment, outcome, risks, answer questions, etc?

 

3.) Can you effectively communicate with other healthcare workers and work as a team?

 

If yes, that's pretty much the only communication skills that you really *need* to get into medicine. Anything personality above that is just icing on the cake.

 

Of course, this is my subjective opinion. I do agree that *ideally*, one would want a highly capable MD with a great personality and great communication skills.

[Jokur23]

Social skills can be learned, faked...etc

What matters is that you have the grades to back it up.

 

Seriously, if you have a 3.9gpa and 35+ MCAT with strong ECs, research, and volunteer. Go to 15 interviews, you will be accepted at least in one med school.

 

If you have only a 3.5gpa and a 28 MCAT score BUT you can talk your way our of a paper bag, its worthless if you dont get an interview in the first place.

 

Also, interviews count for 25% of what is looked at for acceptance in some med schools.

 

Side note: I really don't want a doctor who's just for show. I rather have a freking genius that may stutter a bit but tells me whats wrong than someone who smiles and screws you over.

[Jochi1543]

Side note: I really don't want a doctor who's just for show. I rather have a freking genius that may stutter a bit but tells me whats wrong than someone who smiles and screws you over.

I think you underestimate how bad it could be if you are a physician (or any healthcare provider who is frequently in contact with patients) who is utterly inept at dealing with people. Case in point: a coworker had a miscarriage. She was very excited about her pregnancy, already started buying baby clothes, setting up the nursery, etc. Her (female) doctor said, "I don't get why you're so upset...it's not even a person. Just go have another one." My coworker was DEVASTATED. Emotional intelligence counts for a LOT.

[A-Stark]

Well, that's what radiology is for.

 

(disclaimer: I am not suggesting that radiologists are "inept at dealing with people". This was intended to be humourous, though I do find the guys sitting in the dark all day a bit... crusty. )

[waterluv]

I think you underestimate how bad it could be if you are a physician (or any healthcare provider who is frequently in contact with patients) who is utterly inept at dealing with people. Case in point: a coworker had a miscarriage. She was very excited about her pregnancy, already started buying baby clothes, setting up the nursery, etc. Her (female) doctor said, "I don't get why you're so upset...it's not even a person. Just go have another one." My coworker was DEVASTATED. Emotional intelligence counts for a LOT.

 

Please tell me that is a hypothetical scenario. Made me cringe so badly...

[THX]

Most people I have met at interviews (and I've been to a lot of interviews because of the states) are quite nice, sociable and seem like decent human beings. Obviously everyone is on their best behavior, so it is a bit skewed. That said, I also quickly realized why schools do interviews because while the majority are great, I'd say 20-25% of those that show up are behaviorally questionable.

 

I've even categorized them (I was stuck in an airport overnight..) into a few categories:

 

- The Pompous Pricks

- The Long Winded Whiners

- The Morally Dubious

- The Child of Some Big Shot Dude who knows other big shot dudes, who name drops big shot dudes that you don't know every 30 seconds (one guy I met must have name dropped 20 different people)

 

 

I'd much rather be classmates with someone who has questionable social skills, but is a good person at heart than any of the above.

[supafield]

Lol, There's no need to choose though I feel.

 

Noting that a short interview has it's inherent limitations,

 

Why not strive for an applicant who is a strong/compassionate communicator but also is smart, active, and morally sound.

 

So I don't want a doctor with a 4.0 and no social skills in tough situations.

I also don't want one with a 2.5, graduated med school on probation, but is incredibly friendly.

 

The best doctors I've known, in my opinion of course, were sociable caring people on top of strong competency and moral character.

[a41]

Hey guys, how about we stop criticizing people we don't even know/stroking our own egos and focus on how we can make ourselves good physicians?

 

After your med school interviews no one cares about your undergrad GPA or MCAT score. I'm sure if there are major issues, the Colleges of Physicians/Surgeons will take care of them.

[Jochi1543]

Please tell me that is a hypothetical scenario. Made me cringe so badly...

 

Nope, true story! On the contrary, a friend of hers also suffered a miscarriage and often said how blown away she was by the fact that her (male) doctor at the same hospital spent 1.5 hours with her just talking after everything. He's still her doctor (unlike in my coworker's case). Same scenario, but totally different patient outcomes based on the physician's social skills and emotional intelligence.

[medisforme]

Hey guys, how about we stop criticizing people we don't even know/stroking our own egos and focus on how we can make ourselves good physicians?

 

Ok, this isn't very hard

 

1) Study like mad until you are a genius and memorize a vast amount of diagnostic algorithms

2) Learn how to interact with others

 

umm,

 

well I guess that is the crux of it, aren't these two points what we've been debating this whole time.

 

ok, how about

 

3) Think before you act/talk (I guess you could call this professionalism)

4) Learn how to be compassionate, caring etc....

[kaymcee]

I subscribed to this mutually exclusive dichotomy of academic versus social skills, thinking that anyone who had one probably didn't have the other. This was because my grades were nothing special but I felt if I got an interview I would do well based on my extra-curricular stuff. I was right—I rocked the sole interview I received.

 

One needn't be sacrificed for the other. Higher grades are, without question, always better than lower. The key is ensuring you have enough stuff going on outside the classroom so your life isn't all about school.

 

I had the opportunity to interview a bunch of people for medical school admission this year, and it gave me insight into the applicant pool. I didn't see grades—they don't matter once you get an interview—but 10% of applicants "had it all" in the interview: maturity, a breadth of experiences to talk about, great personalities, genuine demeanour. Another 10% were not good at all. 80% were in the middle. I'm sure those middle 80% would all do fine in medical school, but nothing I saw stood out.

 

What made those 80% average (and the top 10% stand out) were their experiences. When all people could think about was school-related stuff, it was boring to listen to. Hearing the excellent candidates talk about all the cool stuff they've done was inspiring.

 

Anyway, OP, don't feel sorry for them now—save your pity until you actually get in. In the mean time, do all you can to be interesting and academically sound.

[Version 2]

Of course you want to do as well in every aspect that you can (goes without saying).

 

I think the point of the interview (as stated above) is to weed out the extremes. Once the folks with absolutely no social skills, the egomaniacs, the pompous pricks and name droppers get weeded out you're left with a pool of people who still vary in their social aptitude. Though they never seem to completely weed out all of the pompous ones.....

 

Of course, the top 10% will dazzle the interviewers and cement their place. Some people just have that knack, but I consider that more of a personality trait than something gained through experience. You can have all the awesome experience in the world and still be unable to communicate it well/inoffensively.

 

For the rest of us (since we all assume we're at least in the middle 80%, or if we're extra cocky the top 10%), the interview is just another aspect of the process designed to widen the point spread and make it easier to decide between us.

 

I decided I would focus on my grades, since it would be easier to do volunteering during a year off if I wasn't accepted. I consider it easier to gain more volunteer experience than to go back and try to fix a terrible GPA. That isn't to say that I didn't volunteer (though not as much as I should have perhaps......), but I think it was the most foolproof choice.

[n00b]

i have 0 social skillz

[THX]

i have 0 social skillz

People with a bottomless bag of one liners don't need social skills.

[apache]

i think i'm more of the latter, o well, guess i can always go for being a gp and doing botox

 

Social skills can be learned, faked...etc

What matters is that you have the grades to back it up.

 

Seriously, if you have a 3.9gpa and 35+ MCAT with strong ECs, research, and volunteer. Go to 15 interviews, you will be accepted at least in one med school.

 

If you have only a 3.5gpa and a 28 MCAT score BUT you can talk your way our of a paper bag, its worthless if you dont get an interview in the first place.

 

Also, interviews count for 25% of what is looked at for acceptance in some med schools.

 

Side note: I really don't want a doctor who's just for show. I rather have a freking genius that may stutter a bit but tells me whats wrong than someone who smiles and screws you over.

[apache]

hmmm... this is me often this year, which probably shows why my studying is like 0, 0 0, 0 14 hrs, 14 hrs, 14 hrs, 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0, and why i have to worry bout cgy's 3.2 finl yr cutoff haha

 

lets all just get wasted/blitzed this weekend and screw the med school dream

[In_Valid]

Most people I have met at interviews (and I've been to a lot of interviews because of the states) are quite nice, sociable and seem like decent human beings. Obviously everyone is on their best behavior, so it is a bit skewed. That said, I also quickly realized why schools do interviews because while the majority are great, I'd say 20-25% of those that show up are behaviorally questionable.

 

I've even categorized them (I was stuck in an airport overnight..) into a few categories:

 

- The Pompous Pricks

- The Long Winded Whiners

- The Morally Dubious

- The Child of Some Big Shot Dude who knows other big shot dudes, who name drops big shot dudes that you don't know every 30 seconds (one guy I met must have name dropped 20 different people)

 

 

I'd much rather be classmates with someone who has questionable social skills, but is a good person at heart than any of the above.

 

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.... nice one.

 

I've at least met someone from each category.