Advice for MSc.

[metukah]

Hi everyone,

 

I am about to start an MSc. in the Fall in neuroscience at UofT (2 years) and then planning on reapplying to medical school.

 

For those of you that have done their masters and then applied to medicine, do you have any advice? tips? of what helped you during your 2 years of Masters.

Anything would be helpful.

Thanks

[globy321]

Why are you doing your MSc in Neuroscience? Is it because you like it OR do you think it will give you a better chance of getting in Med school? Why not due your MSc in cancer related field?

[steelie]

My advice would be to not put yourself through 2 years of hard work in doing the MSc, but of course I don't know where you need to improve your application. If your GPA is high from undergrad, I'd say rock the Masters and good luck doing it. If you have a high ugrad gpa and a good mcat score, I'd say to do get involved with a volunteer organization for a year and devote yourself to that, which you can talk about in your interviews next year, which you should get if your grades and mcat are high enough. If it's not, I would recommend doing another undergrad - possibly a compressed program.

 

Obviously I wasn't much help.. but good luck with whatever you do!

[sticky1]

What programs are there that are "compressed"?

[steelie]

I know there are compressed 4 year Nursing degrees at a number of universities in Ontario. Other than that, I'm not sure.. I haven't looked into it aside from Nursing.

[metukah]

Why are you doing your MSc in Neuroscience? Is it because you like it OR do you think it will give you a better chance of getting in Med school? Why not due your MSc in cancer related field?

 

I am doing it in this field becaue it is the field I have been doing research in for the past 2 years. I know that the field you do your MSc. in doesn't really impact your chances of getting in.

 

The reason I chose to do it is because my UG GPA wasn't amazing (except for the last 2 years) and I would like to have more publications, experience, which I think will help. Some schools will consider grad students differently, etc. Also, I chose the MSc. route in case I apply and dont get into med, at least I have this to fall back on and maybe do a PhD.

[steelie]

Dude, think long and hard before doing that MSc. If your ugrad gpa wasn't that great and you're still thinking about medicine, unless you have a stellar MCAT, a MSc won't help you like you may think it will. I highly recommend a second ugrad.

[janny_jan]

I agree with the poster above me. Correct me if i'm wrong but out of all the ontario med schools, I think UofT is th eonly one that still gives an advantage to applicants with completed MSc degrees...a small one at that.

Do a Masters because you enjoy research and are throughly interested in your topic. Its a ton of work (I'm just starting my 2nd year of mine). A second Ug or "special year" at western would be easier.

 

But if you like research like me, go for it! It can be a ton of fun and very interesting

[metukah]

I agree with the poster above me. Correct me if i'm wrong but out of all the ontario med schools, I think UofT is th eonly one that still gives an advantage to applicants with completed MSc degrees...a small one at that.

Do a Masters because you enjoy research and are throughly interested in your topic. Its a ton of work (I'm just starting my 2nd year of mine). A second Ug or "special year" at western would be easier.

 

But if you like research like me, go for it! It can be a ton of fun and very interesting

 

You guys think that another 3 or 4 years of full-time UG studies is easier than a 2 year masters that is research based? I think I disagree. Way more research, conference, publication, and TA opportunities with the MSc. Plus like I said, if medicine doesn't work out, at least you have something to fall back on, rather than on just 2 UG degrees. I don't know, thats just how I see it. I already have 2 years of UG in which my GPA is above cutoffs for schools like Western and Queens. UofT is more lenient with GPAs when you are a grad student. I also plan to re-write my MCAT to improve my score.

[9mAoTo]

It seems like a master's is a good choice for you...with 2 years above queen's/western cutoffs there doesn't seem to be much point in a 2nd undergrad. But be careful about calling a career in science a "fall-back"...not exactly the best way to make quick friends in grad school!

 

You guys think that another 3 or 4 years of full-time UG studies is easier than a 2 year masters that is research based? I think I disagree. Way more research, conference, publication, and TA opportunities with the MSc. Plus like I said, if medicine doesn't work out, at least you have something to fall back on, rather than on just 2 UG degrees. I don't know, thats just how I see it. I already have 2 years of UG in which my GPA is above cutoffs for schools like Western and Queens. UofT is more lenient with GPAs when you are a grad student. I also plan to re-write my MCAT to improve my score.

[metukah]

It seems like a master's is a good choice for you...with 2 years above queen's/western cutoffs there doesn't seem to be much point in a 2nd undergrad. But be careful about calling a career in science a "fall-back"...not exactly the best way to make quick friends in grad school!

 

Thanks! Yea, I don't think doing another UG would be right for me.

 

Hahah obviously! It's not a fall back, I am still very interested in science and research and thats why I chose to do this. Medicine is still my first choice, but I would also enjoy a career in research and maybe pursue a PhD as an alternative.

[NewfieMike]

who's your supervisor, if you don't mind me asking (I'm applying MD/PhD Neuroscience at U of T this upcoming cycle). PM me.

[janny_jan]

for me personally, i found my UG easier then masters. I think its the way I study and whatnot. Call me a massive nerd but I kind of prefer the structure of undergrad to the independent learning of my masters. Its something I'm slowly getting used to and I'm slowly learning how to take advantage of my free time. I think its a personal thing! Also different for each Masters program. Some have no free time while others (like mine) can go weeks with not much to do in the lab.

 

But i'm all for the masters....welcome to the wonderful world of a non-trad!

[Microbiodude]

Thanks! Yea, I don't think doing another UG would be right for me.

 

Hahah obviously! It's not a fall back, I am still very interested in science and research and thats why I chose to do this. Medicine is still my first choice, but I would also enjoy a career in research and maybe pursue a PhD as an alternative.

 

You can also pursue a career in research through medicine...so its not exactly medicine v.s. research

[janny_jan]

good point! my advisor now has his MD and Ph.D. He practices family med and also does research on activity and aging. Best of both worlds

 

You can also pursue a career in research through medicine...so its not exactly medicine v.s. research

[Zack Morris]

good point! my advisor now has his MD and Ph.D. He practices family med and also does research on activity and aging. Best of both worlds

 

How does it work when you are interested in doing a masters (I enjoy research), but would prefer to go to med school first? I'm going to want to apply to both grad school and med school, but when it comes to talking to an advisor should you just be open about it with them? Wouldn't they somewhat take offense to them being your second choice and leaving them hanging until May 15th?

[Microbiodude]

well...if you were planning on getting a LOR from them...it'd be best if you start off honest, though you don't necessarily have to put it as you're my second choice (despite it being true).

[akmg13]

It very much depends on the supervisor. I have told my supervisor my plans to pursue meds after my PhD and he is supportive. But I have known him for 5 years. He has been supportive of previous MSc students that have applied to meds.

 

Unfortunately, I have heard many a disparaging remark from other supervisors towards MSc students that want to go to med school and/or do an MSc because they didn't get in. I have also known two students that ditched their MSc 9 months in because they got into meds. Probably a contributing factor to the negativity.

 

I agree that you should mention your interest in meds. It is also important to show (and have) a genuine interest in the research of the potential supervisor. Let them know that you plan on finishing your MSc if you start it.

 

Although my supervisor doesn't have an MD, for other grad students in my department, MD or MD/PhD supervisors appear to be the most supportive of their grad students doing meds. So maybe try to find a supervisor that is MD or MD/PhD.

[tooty]

If you are confident that you can make Western and Queens cuts, then stick with your MSc. If not, then I suggest another undergrad because no amount of extracurriculars is going to make up for a sh*tty gpa.

 

You're taking a risk with a grad degree in a similar way to doing another undergrad. If you can't make the MCAT cuts, you've spent 2 years beefing up your ECs with your GPA stagnant, which is not an equal trade. With another undergrad, you have just as much opportunity to do extracurriculars. They won't be TAships or publications, but they'll be just as valuable in your application. It's not like schools look specifically for TAships/publications etc.

 

That's my take, anyway. From my experience with associates IRL and what I've read on these forums, people tend to overvalue the grad degree.

 

In terms of making the most out of your M.Sc., it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it. I suggest you also apply to scholarships aggressively, which will add just that much more to your application.

[Microbiodude]

another undergrad also means more debt potentially, with a grad degree at least you get paid. So if you can afford it and really want to pursue another UG go for it...I personally can't stand more undergraduate studies.

[metukah]

another undergrad also means more debt potentially, with a grad degree at least you get paid. So if you can afford it and really want to pursue another UG go for it...I personally can't stand more undergraduate studies.

 

Exactly. I don't think the degree will cost me anything, and I will just gain experience. Like I said I have 2 years that are at 3.85 (GPA), its just my first year that brings down my cGPA, so doing another UG won't really get me anywhere and will take too long. I have plenty of ECs so I'm not worried about that. It's just my MCAT score I need to boost and then I can reapply.

 

Thanks for your advice guys!

[Ninjaface]

I don't really know much about how a Master's will help with getting into med school, nor Ontario med school entrance requirements, but I did do a 2 year MSc. in neuroscience and am now accepted to med, so I might be able to answer some of your questions about other facets of the whole ordeal . You're welcome to ask or PM. I don't think my MSc. is what got me in, and I did it for it's own sake not to get into med, so I can't really attest to anything there, but I did have a similar journey to the one you are planning and know few others that did as well.

 

Tips off the top of my head? Plan your MCAT well (i.e. nowhere near thesis time); publish (find out how other MSc. students do at publishing in your potential supervisor's lab and don't sign on if none of them get on papers); sign up for lots of conferences and put the resultant published abstract on your CV/apps; buy a mini-fridge for beer if your lab is not already equipped; cure EVERYTHING. I'm likely missing a lot.

 

 

Good luck.

[thegame11]

I made a big mistake of doing a M.Sc. I am 1 year into my program regret every single day of my life.

 

My research in undergrad went pretty well but independent research in grad. school is very difficult and frustrating. In my field (synthetic chemistry), publications are not that easy. In the first few years, you are just learning the essential skills and you really start to become productive in your later years. I spend most of the time in the lab so I have no time for EC's or mcat... I wish I had known that before...

 

 

Just make your decision carefully.

[globy321]

Chemistry is a tough field to do a MSc.

[steelie]

Dude.. if you hate it so badly, pack up your things and quit. You shouldn't be miserable every day of your life.