Mac Health Sci

[2011hope]

My god! What is with all these people thinking that hth sci is some holy grail of easy-ness? As i have said in many other posts, i am a hth sci grad and I consistently did BETTER in my NON hth sci courses than I did in my hth sci courses. I got plenty of A+ and A grades in my non-hth sci courses (in the sciences and the liberal arts) but in my health sci courses I often only got Bs or A- grades despite working just as hard in them, if not harder.

 

for the millionth time people, hth sci is not easier, it is just different.

 

I have friends who also found hth sci courses more difficult to achieve high grades in than their non hth sci courses.

 

Unless the program has changed dramtically since I was there (and it has been a while), then all this talk of hth sci being easier than other programs is hogwash. If hth sci was do damned easy than I would be in med school now instead of doing a science degree at a different school in order to raise my gpa. And, yes, as I have mentioned before, I find the science courses at this different school WAY easier than ANY hth sci course I ever took.

[DanG8]

Check out these intensely tough health sci courses!

 

Health Sci 3CC3: THEATRE FOR DEVELOPMENT

 

This course, rooted in Applied Drama, will enable students to actively participate and explore their creativity, enhancing transferable skills like communication and active listening through drama games and exercises.

 

HTH SCI 4MM3: MULTI-CULTURAL PEER TUTORING AND COMMUNICATION

 

This course will provide an opportunity through peer tutoring and small group inquiry based learning to increase awareness and develop skills in multi-cultural communication.

 

http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/CALENDAR/current/pg1867.html

 

Not that I would take 3CC3, but 4MM3 is something I would consider. Since one of the most important traits a physician can have is being a great communicator, I'd think this course could be more beneficial to my development and future than memorizing the MAPK pathway and regurgitating it back on an exam (only to forget it a few weeks later). Permanent Skills vs. Temporary knowledge? I'd choose the former any day.

[ChexMix]

for crying out loud, can we stop the bickering? What do you want the healthscis to say? I'm sorry I got into this program?

[h1yao]

for crying out loud, can we stop the bickering? What do you want the healthscis to say? I'm sorry I got into this program?

 

That would be ideal! But seriously... a little bickering is good for the heart...

 

Besides, its undeniably that Mac Health Sci does offer some better development opportunities than other universities (at least better ones that are handed to you instead of fought over... lol). Just think of this as part of the tuition!

[itimebomb2]

Check out these intensely tough health sci courses!

 

Health Sci 3CC3: THEATRE FOR DEVELOPMENT

 

This course, rooted in Applied Drama, will enable students to actively participate and explore their creativity, enhancing transferable skills like communication and active listening through drama games and exercises.

 

HTH SCI 4MM3: MULTI-CULTURAL PEER TUTORING AND COMMUNICATION

 

This course will provide an opportunity through peer tutoring and small group inquiry based learning to increase awareness and develop skills in multi-cultural communication.

 

 

I could go on all day

 

http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/CALENDAR/current/pg1867.html

 

Contrary to what you might presume, these courses do not offer automatic A+s if you're lucky enough to get into them. Sure, there are easier hth sci courses, but that can be said of any program. Overall, I don't think my hth sci courses are any "easier" than other faculties... nor are they so light in work that they offer me more time to study my other science subjects.

 

Maybe all you whiners in science should just own up to the fact that health scis are awesome, and regular science students... not so much. Every year, over 3000 apply for fewer than 200 hth sci positions. That rivals most Ontario medical schools. Moreover, the application process includes a peer-reviewed essay portion that is meant to identify not only intelligent students, but ones who would fit the program well.

 

I could have gotten into your coveted UT LMP program with ease. Except, Hth Sci offers me more of what I'm looking for in a university program, which is the development of life-long learning skills (see DanG8 above). Medical schools have recognized the value of the Mac Hth Sci program and they have, for the last 6 years (since the 1st graduating class), consistently welcomed mac hth scis into their programs despite claims about the "unfairness" about their grading system.

[discworldheavylight]

Contrary to what you might presume, these courses do not offer automatic A+s if you're lucky enough to get into them. Sure, there are easier hth sci courses, but that can be said of any program. Overall, I don't think my hth sci courses are any "easier" than other faculties... nor are they so light in work that they offer me more time to study my other science subjects.

 

Maybe all you whiners in science should just own up to the fact that health scis are awesome, and regular science students... not so much. Every year, over 3000 apply for fewer than 200 hth sci positions. That rivals most Ontario medical schools. Moreover, the application process includes a peer-reviewed essay portion that is meant to identify not only intelligent students, but ones who would fit the program well.

 

I could have gotten into your coveted UT LMP program with ease. Except, Hth Sci offers me more of what I'm looking for in a university program, which is the development of life-long learning skills (see DanG8 above). Medical schools have recognized the value of the Mac Hth Sci program and they have, for the last 6 years (since the 1st graduating class), consistently welcomed mac hth scis into their programs despite claims about the "unfairness" about their grading system.

 

itimebomb2, there is no point arguing. we are far too outnumbered. i could point out the many inaccuracies made in this thread, but it would just produce more arguments. frankly, it's difficult to change opinions unless people get to experience it firsthand.

 

as for h1yao, i have been told, that as of this summer, you still carry some resentment about a late acceptance to mac health sci. this is based on your own words. so much for lack of bitterness. perhaps you find this personal commentary unprofessional, but isn't that precisely the point of your earlier post where you called out a former classmate using false information?

[h1yao]

Contrary to what you might presume, these courses do not offer automatic A+s if you're lucky enough to get into them. Sure, there are easier hth sci courses, but that can be said of any program. Overall, I don't think my hth sci courses are any "easier" than other faculties... nor are they so light in work that they offer me more time to study my other science subjects.

 

Maybe all you whiners in science should just own up to the fact that health scis are awesome, and regular science students... not so much. Every year, over 3000 apply for fewer than 200 hth sci positions. That rivals most Ontario medical schools. Moreover, the application process includes a peer-reviewed essay portion that is meant to identify not only intelligent students, but ones who would fit the program well.

 

I could have gotten into your coveted UT LMP program with ease. Except, Hth Sci offers me more of what I'm looking for in a university program, which is the development of life-long learning skills (see DanG8 above). Medical schools have recognized the value of the Mac Hth Sci program and they have, for the last 6 years (since the 1st graduating class), consistently welcomed mac hth scis into their programs despite claims about the "unfairness" about their grading system.

 

Since when are we people at other universities simply regular? Our LMP program requires about 3.9 MINIMUM GPA to get in... you would be cutting it close as it is... Besides... Define consistently welcomed... last i checked.. your ratio was about 50% entry into med... our LMP is about 60-65%. And quite a few of us REJECTED Health Sci... so are those scraps yummy for your classmates? Lol.. I kid.. I wont deny that some people in Health sci that I know are decently awesome, and the people make the program, not the other way around. So a lot of people are riding on the coattails of these exceptional folk... NEVER UNDERESTIMATE US "REGULAR" FOLK... lol

 

And I also forgot to mention... I think I caught you in a trap... by saying "all you whiners in science" and contrasting that with the group Health sci... it is implied logically that you do not consider health sci to be a part of the rigorous science umbrella... I wonder where that leaves health sci

[itimebomb2]

Since when are we people at other universities simply regular? Our LMP program requires about 3.9 MINIMUM GPA to get in... you would be cutting it close as it is... Besides... Define consistently welcomed... last i checked.. your ratio was about 50% entry into med... our LMP is about 60-65%. And quite a few of us REJECTED Health Sci... so are those scraps yummy for your classmates? Lol.. I kid.. I wont deny that some people in Health sci that I know are decently awesome, and the people make the program, not the other way around. So a lot of people are riding on the coattails of these exceptional folk... NEVER UNDERESTIMATE US "REGULAR" FOLK... lol

 

And I also forgot to mention... I think I caught you in a trap... by saying "all you whiners in science" and contrasting that with the group Health sci... it is implied logically that you do not consider health sci to be a part of the rigorous science umbrella... I wonder where that leaves health sci

 

no negativity implied by "regular". i was just trying to differentiate hth sci and non-hth sci.

[h1yao]

itimebomb2, there is no point arguing. we are far too outnumbered. i could point out the many inaccuracies made in this thread, but it would just produce more arguments. frankly, it's difficult to change opinions unless people get to experience it firsthand.

 

as for h1yao, i have been told, that as of this summer, you still carry some resentment about a late acceptance to mac health sci. this is based on your own words. so much for lack of bitterness. perhaps you find this personal commentary unprofessional, but isn't that precisely the point of your earlier post where you called out a former classmate using false information?

 

By late... I meant still meant the first round of acceptances... just that in general Health sci send out stuff late... dont think that i was some waitlist hopeful... lol... Some of my best buddies are in Health Sci, and this is by no means directed at them.. If you consider yourself the cream of the health sci crop... then all our collective rants do not apply to you either... They apply only to those that barely scraped in and yet consider themselves superior. Reality check please!

[h1yao]

no negativity implied by "regular". i was just trying to differentiate hth sci and non-hth sci.

 

and just to make it clear... non of this is directed at you personally. But even you must admit... there must be individuals in your class that do not seem like they deserved to make it into the class? I have nothing against strong people who have earned a chance to take it easy... I'm against the stragglers in your class which were admitted on a whim and yet are bold enough to try and claim leet status

[itimebomb2]

and just to make it clear... non of this is directed at you personally. But even you must admit... there must be individuals in your class that do not seem like they deserved to make it into the class? I have nothing against strong people who have earned a chance to take it easy... I'm against the stragglers in your class which were admitted on a whim and yet are bold enough to try and claim leet status

 

no offense taken. and yes, no doubt there are hth scis that abuse the system... who dont deserve their GPAs. i would say that that is probably true for maybe 20% of health scis. not exactly remarkable though.

[h1yao]

no offense taken. and yes, no doubt there are hth scis that abuse the system... who dont deserve their GPAs. i would say that that is probably true for maybe 20% of health scis. not exactly remarkable though.

 

But that is exactly what bugs me... It doesnt affect us personally, but those 20% might use an undeserved advantage to edge out harder workers... seems unfair in my philosophy..

 

If university exams are made super secure to catch that 0.1% of students who would be willing to cheat and get an undeserved grade... I think that we have the right to complain about your classmates... Its just our way of letting off steam.. In the end... we are all gonna be doctors, so its best to let it out now rather than hold it in until the workplace... And of course... you guys in health sci, especially those at the top, have every right to argue with us too... and I just hope that the result of all this is a fairer system that agrees with everyone.

 

As for disco, your comments are inaccurate... why in the world would I be bitter? I'm just pointing out the flaws in the system... which everybody has a right to do... Unless you're saying that your program is perfect?

 

In the end... I suppose that the power of the web has brought out in me the desire to poke things (figuratively) with a stick and seeing what comes out... Think of it as my personal stress valve

[itimebomb2]

But that is exactly what bugs me... It doesnt affect us personally, but those 20% might use an undeserved advantage to edge out harder workers... seems unfair in my philosophy..

 

i can see what youre getting at, but let me put if to you this way. The hsci faculty justifies higher marks because they believe that their students will be stronger health professionals. this is because the program emphasizes skills, rather than knowledge.

 

so yes, from the point of view of who puts in more hours at the library memorizing facts about biochemical pathways or names of enzymes -- hth scis dont deserve high marks. but from the point of view of who will actually make a better health professional in the end, the marks justify the skills. does that make sense?

 

there are professional/grad programs that emphasize specialized knowledge - LMP for one. these programs will no doubt select a UT biochem student with a lower gpa but "tougher" courses over a hth sci. being that this is a med school forum though, the hth scis have the advantage.

[h1yao]

i can see what youre getting at, but let me put if to you this way. The hsci faculty justifies higher marks because they believe that their students will be stronger health professionals. this is because the program emphasizes skills, rather than knowledge.

 

so yes, from the point of view of who puts in more hours at the library memorizing facts about biochemical pathways or names of enzymes -- hth scis dont deserve high marks. but from the point of view of who will actually make a better health professional in the end, the marks justify the skills. does that make sense?

 

there are professional/grad programs that emphasize specialized knowledge - LMP for one. these programs will no doubt select a UT biochem student with a lower gpa but "tougher" courses over a hth sci. being that this is a med school forum though, the hth scis have the advantage.

 

I suppose... but that advantage ends at basic entry medicine. No matter how communicative you are, being unable to handle extensive information flow (especially if doing a specialist later on) will be a very important factor that soft skills doesnt necessarily account for. Obviously, if you are good at both, you are set and will be a good doctor regardless. But the interesting situation occurs if you can have only 1. Will patients prefer a normal person with extensive disease knowledge or an empath with average or even subpar clinical knowledge? Im just saying that as we are moving away from the autocratic, because I KNOW BETTER attitude, doctors are not only expected to know more, they must communicate the information in its entiretly, not necessarily delicately. And if the popularity of House M.D. says anything, its that the public enjoy doctors who know their stuff.

 

and by harder workers, I dont mean those library fixtures... I meant a more holistic hard worker... in the sense that they know med school is important, and put in tremendous effort, one way or the other, to try and make them the best that they could be (for the benefit of patients)... as opposed to work the hardest to created a cheap veneer that only looks good for adcoms... Those who approach a program to gain an empty status/GPA advantage (instead of being motivated, obviously) are guilty of the latter, as they are not only cheating themselves, they cheat their future patients out of a better physician, which is the true tragedy!

[blugga]

for crying out loud, can we stop the bickering? What do you want the healthscis to say? I'm sorry I got into this program?

 

I do not think anyone here has suggested that at all. It's clear to everyone that Health Science at Mac is a bird program and it's annoying when you guys keep saying that your program is "challenging". We all know that you don't learn anything in the program and that you are all there just for the marks. The people who want to learn something reject the offer of Health Science once they find out what it really is about and take real programs with real courses.

 

If you are going to take the easy way route and get your 4.0 through fluff like filling out journals, at least be honest about it. Stop lying and making it seem like you learn things!! It is decieving to people trying to figure out what Unvierstiy to attend.

[h1yao]

I do not think anyone here has suggested that at all. It's clear to everyone that Health Science at Mac is a bird program and it's annoying when you guys keep saying that your program is "challenging". We all know that you don't learn anything in the program and that you are all there just for the marks. The people who want to learn something REJECT Health Science offers and take real programs with real courses.

 

If you are going to take the easy way route and get your 4.0 through fluff like filling out journals, at least be honest about it. Stop lying and making it seem like you learn things!!

 

Lol... this just feeds into my argument... it just depends... THOSE AT THE VERY TOP of health sci are indeed deserving of an easier program, its like a boxing match... those recognized as the best get seeded because they will likely win the prelims anyway... the problem are those who ride on the coat-tails of the heavyweights.. Unfortunately, it is in the nature of many to take the easiest course of action... even if it is not the most ideal

[blugga]

Lol... this just feeds into my argument... it just depends... THOSE AT THE VERY TOP of health sci are indeed deserving of an easier program, its like a boxing match... those recognized as the best get seeded because they will likely win the prelims anyway... the problem are those who ride on the coat-tails of the heavyweights

 

So you are basically saying that if you are "smart", you shouldn't have to work for your marks? This is precisely why people get so fustrated at Health Science students.

 

Try saying that in the interview. Tell me what your interviewer tells you

[h1yao]

So you are basically saying that if you are "smart", you shouldn't have to work for your marks? This is precisely why people get so fustrated at Health Science students.

 

Try saying that in the interview. Tell me what your interviewer tells you

 

Well, if you are the best, it doesnt matter where you go... youll still get a 4.0 (and of course, Im assuming that the best are self motivated enough not to simply coast, so their patients wont lose out), right? Its only for those whose performance is not necessarily at the top who use the program to artificially increase their relative ranking that are deplorable, right?

[blugga]

Well, if you are the best, it doesnt matter where you go... youll still get a 4.0, right? Its only for those whose performance is not necessarily at the top who use the program to artificially increase their relative ranking that are deplorable, right?

 

You are right in that you will do just fine no matter where you go if you understand your material.

 

However, this is a completely different case. Just because you know your stuff doesn't mean it's ok for you to be handed your marks on a platter. It's the same as picking a group of people and saying they WOULD make be good in the business world so they DON'T have to work and should get paid for not doing anything. Yes, in theory, IF Mac is chosing people who are indeed "smart", then those people have the POTENTIAL to do well. It's just simply not equitable for them to be just given them marks for free.

 

p.s. I'm pretty sure there are capable people outside of your program who are good students Why doesn't every university just deem certain people "capbable" and hand out free marks? According to you and your Health Science policy, this is the right thing to do.

[h1yao]

You are right in that you will do just fine no matter where you go if you understand your material.

 

However, this is a completely different case. Just because you know your stuff doesn't mean it's ok for you to be handed your marks on a platter. It's the same as picking a group of people and saying they WOULD make be good in the business world so they DON'T have to work and should get paid for not doing anything . Yes, in theory, IF Mac is chosing people who are indeed "smart", then those people have the POTENTIAL to do well. It's just simply not equitable for them to be just given them marks for free.

 

p.s. I'm pretty sure there are capable people outside of your program who are good students Why doesn't every university just deem certain people "capbable" and hand out free marks? According to you and your Health Science policy, this is the right thing to do.

 

These are called CEO's, the top of the business world... lol. Yep, obviously the ideal is that everyone works the same... but we got to take baby steps.... The only reason that I think that a slight favortism towards those with the most potential is tolerable is because medical school is a beginning, not an end. What they look for in an individual is exactly that, POTENTIAL, because lets face it, even in my LMP program, a good portion of the curriculum is just going to be retaught in Med school, so in the end, all that I demonstrate is the Potential to handle difficult material and the life skills to balance it all out.

 

To be fair... i dont think marks are given out for free in Health sci... easier yes... but not free.. probably somewhere around 70-80% workload?

[blugga]

Well, if you are the best, it doesnt matter where you go... youll still get a 4.0 (and of course, Im assuming that the best are self motivated enough not to simply coast, so their patients wont lose out), right? Its only for those whose performance is not necessarily at the top who use the program to artificially increase their relative ranking that are deplorable, right?

 

To add, making up a sob story and bluffing in an essay has no correlation with practicing as a physician.

 

I'm pretty sure the majority of your class would crumble in a normal program with a normal workload. Why else would they go so low as to pay for 3 years of tuition for a 4.0? There's only one reason: health sci students don't have the confidence to do the real stuff.

[h1yao]

To add, making up a sob story and bluffing in an essay has no correlation with practicing as a physician.

 

I'm pretty sure the majority of your class would crumble in a normal program with a normal workload. Why else would they go so low as to pay for 3 years of tuition for a 4.0? There's only one reason: health sci students don't have the confidence to do the real stuff.

 

READ MY POSTS... I AM NOT IN HEALTH SCI... LOL... I'M IN LMP!!!!

[blugga]

These are called CEO's, the top of the business world... lol. Yep, obviously the ideal is that everyone works the same... but we got to take baby steps.... The only reason that I think that a slight favortism towards those with the most potential is tolerable is because medical school is a beginning, not an end. What they look for in an individual is exactly that, POTENTIAL, because lets face it, even in my LMP program, a good portion of the curriculum is just going to be retaught in Med school, so in the end, all that I demonstrate is the Potential to handle difficult material and the life skills to balance it all out.

 

 

CEOs do have to climb a corporate ladder and they have to know their stuff NOT have just have the POTENTIAL to know their stuff. If they don't, they will simply be replaced. Do you think a CEO could walk into a meeting full of big guns dressed in his pajamas with no agenda?

 

& just how do you know that health science students have the most potential if you never even get to see them do the work? Just because they bluff on paper doesn't mean they can carry it out. Anyone can say they're great.

[blugga]

READ MY POSTS... I AM NOT IN HEALTH SCI... LOL... I'M IN LMP!!!!

Haha,

Whoops

[h1yao]

CEOs do have to climb a corporate ladder and they have to know their stuff NOT have just have the POTENTIAL to know their stuff. If they don't, they will simply be replaced. Do you think a CEO could walk into a meeting full of big guns dressed in his pajamas with no agenda?

 

& just how do you know that health science students have the most potential if you never even get to see them do the work? Just because they bluff on paper doesn't mean they can carry it out. Anyone can say their great.

 

I know because although I rejected the Health Sci offer, I do know very impressive individuals who are in there right now... and they are the real deal... note.. i'm talking about like the 10% minority at the top.. I'm sure if they are ranked internationally in science olympiads/ science fairs, they will be fine with science undergrad... lol

 

And its okay... a debate is a debate... thats whats fun! I