Mac Health Sci

[blugga]

LOL, everything makes sense now.

 

get off the forums and have some fun, will ya? worry about this later

 

 

Why does me being in first year make everything make senese xD?

 

& I like lurking the forums. I've learnt a lot from this site.

[ChicoMaki]

blugga may have been harsh... but saying that life is unfair is hardly a good defense... as the future leaders... it is up to us to pinpoint whats wrong and try to fix the unfair bits in life (constructive criticism obviously). If we were gonna be always laissez-faire, then the world won't move forward, and women never would have gotten the vote, slavery wouldnt have been abolished (born to slave parents? deal with it)... etc...

 

I agree, but the system here in Canada is very hesitant to change. Just look at UofT and how long it took them to change to a P/F system vs the rest of Ontario schools. So how to change the system is the question to make it more fair for all applicants? As someone alluded to, the MCAT is a standardized test and the reason the US schools put such an emphasis on it is to account for the variety of colleges and their GPAs. Maybe Canadian schools should follow suit? but then you learn for the test and not the purpose of learning or learning how to learn and acquire information which is one thing schools do love to hear -- learning to learn.

 

Personally, I'm so disappointed with the system here that I'm looking forward to moving to the USA for schooling. At least Health Sci has slowly changed its admissions process and I'll admit its not perfect, but no system is. One day, I feel like the Canadian schools will slowly adapt, but it will take time and a spark to initiate it. Everyone can keep discussing health sci in this forum but it'll take someone to grow some balls and talk to adcoms about it. and I will be the first to shake that person's hand when they do.

[h1yao]

I agree, but the system here in Canada is very hesitant to change. Just look at UofT and how long it took them to change to a P/F system vs the rest of Ontario schools. So how to change the system is the question to make it more fair for all applicants? As someone alluded to, the MCAT is a standardized test and the reason the US schools put such an emphasis on it is to account for the variety of colleges and their GPAs. Maybe Canadian schools should follow suit? but then you learn for the test and not the purpose of learning or learning how to learn and acquire information which is one thing schools do love to hear -- learning to learn.

 

Personally, I'm so disappointed with the system here that I'm looking forward to moving to the USA for schooling. At least Health Sci has slowly changed its admissions process and I'll admit its not perfect, but no system is. One day, I feel like the Canadian schools will slowly adapt, but it will take time and a spark to initiate it. Everyone can keep discussing health sci in this forum but it'll take someone to grow some balls and talk to adcoms about it. and I will be the first to shake that person's hand when they do.

 

Lol... Trust me... if I had gone to Health sci instead of Ut... Adcoms there would know about it... but there is good news... the fact that even UT does change is encouraging... meaning that there is hope... There is a big difference between the impossible and the mere improbable (forgot who said that)... So as long as the future generation is not fit to sit on their laurels... things will change for the better. That is the name of progress!

 

And in another thread... I laid out three alternatives for change

[blugga]

I agree, but the system here in Canada is very hesitant to change. Just look at UofT and how long it took them to change to a P/F system vs the rest of Ontario schools. So how to change the system is the question to make it more fair for all applicants? As someone alluded to, the MCAT is a standardized test and the reason the US schools put such an emphasis on it is to account for the variety of colleges and their GPAs. Maybe Canadian schools should follow suit? but then you learn for the test and not the purpose of learning or learning how to learn and acquire information which is one thing schools do love to hear -- learning to learn.

 

Personally, I'm so disappointed with the system here that I'm looking forward to moving to the USA for schooling. At least Health Sci has slowly changed its admissions process and I'll admit its not perfect, but no system is. One day, I feel like the Canadian schools will slowly adapt, but it will take time and a spark to initiate it. Everyone can keep discussing health sci in this forum but it'll take someone to grow some balls and talk to adcoms about it. and I will be the first to shake that person's hand when they do.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Mac Health Science didn't change their admission process for the better. They took away any degree of standardization and replaced it with subjective essays to select the best bluffer. It goes hand in hand with their principle...It's like a business...for a program to get a good name, there has to be a demand for it by students, to get the demand, the program has to offer something to students. In most other programs, what they offer, is a learning experience. Health Science can't match that so they provide easy 4.0 GPAs instead.

 

I doubt Medicine will become like Health Science. I hope it doesn't anyways.

[blugga]

Lol... Trust me... if I had gone to Health sci instead of Ut... Adcoms there would know about it... but there is good news... the fact that even UT does change is encouraging... meaning that there is hope... There is a big difference between the impossible and the mere improbable (forgot who said that)... So as long as the future generation is not fit to sit on their laurels... things will change for the better. That is the name of progress!

 

And in another thread... I laid out three alternatives for change

 

 

And that's the problem with Health Science. The students who would bring it up to adcom don't go to the program so there will be no change

 

& indeed, tiny steps can add up

[h1yao]

And that's the problem with Health Science. The students who would bring it up to adcom don't go to the program so there will be no change

 

& indeed, tiny steps can add up

 

that is a bit of an exaggeration... they are doing their best... but the problem is that the few in Health Sci who want change are likely being bogged down by the majority who prefer the status quo... Like with US... the average citizen may want universal healthcare, and a few elected officials are passionate about it... but unfortunately Republicans stand in their way..

[Indicula]

I'm pretty sure Mac Health Science didn't change their admission process for the better. They took away any degree of standardization and replaced it with subjective essays to select the best bluffer. It goes hand in hand with their principle...It's like a business...for a program to get a good name, there has to be a demand for it by students, to get the demand, the program has to offer something to students. In most other programs, what they offer, is a learning experience. Health Science can't match that so they provide easy 4.0 GPAs instead.

 

I doubt Medicine will become like Health Science. I hope it doesn't anyways.

 

The secret of Health Science has been elucidated!

[blugga]

that is a bit of an exaggeration... they are doing their best... but the problem is that the few in Health Sci who want change are likely being bogged down by the majority who prefer the status quo... Like with US... the average citizen may want universal healthcare, and a few elected officials are passionate about it... but unfortunately Republicans stand in their way..

 

That is true. But the situations are slightly different in that the reason people chose Health Science IS to get the higher marks. Why would someone who goes there to get higher marks want the program to stop giving them out? Indeed, it would mean that thier purpose for being there is gone.

 

On the other hand, with government, elected officials did not run because they don't want healthcare.

[mig174]

what's hard about setting averages at 65%??????

[blugga]

what's hard about setting averages at 65%??????

 

If you mean setting averages at Health Sci to 65%, it would be difficult because that's what is driving the demand for the program right now. The people who run the program wouldn't want a decrease in enrollment (which would result undoubtely if they did).

 

That's just my opinion though ^^

[h1yao]

That is true. But the situations are slightly different in that the reason people chose Health Science IS to get the higher marks. Why would someone who goes there to get higher marks want the program to stop giving them out? Indeed, it would mean that thier purpose for being there is gone.

 

On the other hand, with government, elected officials did not run because they don't want healthcare.

 

okay... bad ex... what about big oil.... politicians elected because guess whos backing their coffers?

[ChicoMaki]

I'm pretty sure Mac Health Science didn't change their admission process for the better. They took away any degree of standardization and replaced it with subjective essays to select the best bluffer. It goes hand in hand with their principle...It's like a business...for a program to get a good name, there has to be a demand for it by students, to get the demand, the program has to offer something to students. In most other programs, what they offer, is a learning experience. Health Science can't match that so they provide easy 4.0 GPAs instead.

 

I doubt Medicine will become like Health Science. I hope it doesn't anyways.

 

So just like McMaster Medicine . I'm pretty sure they have. Its much better now that it used to be. having been around for 4 years now, only 4th years reading the applications is much better than anyone from the program reading it, blinding names and high schools now (it wasn't done before). They is no magic way of selecting the best students but at least programs are changing. But in all honesty

 

And contrary to your 2nd statement i would say that's one thing I have really had is a learning experience, working with people with whom I've had conflicts, having to get around them for the betterment of a group's success among other situations which have been pretty heated.

[blugga]

okay... bad ex... what about big oil.... politicians elected because guess whos backing their coffers?

 

That's true. At the same time though, the degree to which the organization is dependent is different. Mac's Health Science program is almost completely built on the grounds that it dishes out high marks to premeds. If the high marks are gone, the program falls. On the other hand, if the government slows down the use of oil, they will be hurt, but they will not be completely demonlished. In the case of government, there is also the element of a trade off. By supporting the less oil use, they gain the support of environmentalists. No doubt though, oil comapnies are a big backer-upers. xD

[blugga]

So just like McMaster Medicine . I'm pretty sure they have. Its much better now that it used to be. having been around for 4 years now, only 4th years reading the applications is much better than anyone from the program reading it, blinding names and high schools now (it wasn't done before). They is no magic way of selecting the best students but at least programs are changing. But in all honesty

 

And contrary to your 2nd statement i would say that's one thing I have really had is a learning experience, working with people with whom I've had conflicts, having to get around them for the betterment of a group's success among other situations which have been pretty heated.

 

To the contary, I believe that the "mac system" is bringing in a lower calibre of students. For instance, most the people I know rejected health science to go to other schools. All my friends in Med did the same thing with Mac med when they got accepted elsewhere.

[h1yao]

To the contary, I believe that the "mac system" is bringing in a lower calibre of students. For instance, most the people I know rejected health science to go to other schools. All my friends in Med did the same thing with Mac med when they got accepted elsewhere.

 

way not to respond to Pms....

[actinate]

To the contary, I believe that the "mac system" is bringing in a lower calibre of students. For instance, most the people I know rejected health science to go to other schools. All my friends in Med did the same thing with Mac med when they got accepted elsewhere.

 

That is called anecdotal evidence. It's interesting that everyone who makes grand all-encompassing statements about health sci aren't even in the program. You're in first year, go out and have some fun before it ends... instead of bashing a program you have no affiliation to.

[pinklemonade]

I normally wouldn't do this type of thing, but I feel like I have to say something. I'm also sorry for the untimeliness of this post.

 

I'm in first year BHSc, and for the most part, I've learned SO much.

 

I've taken both health sci and non-health sci courses (obviously) but in my experience, health science classes are much harder (On top of Chem I and II, I took Calc I and II and physics I as my electives).

 

Chem, calc, and physics are courses where the amount of work you put into it shows in your grade - I work reasonably hard in each class (let's say about 25 hours for each midterm, 45 hours for each final... which actually seems so much longer than it really is ), and pulled off my 12s with comfortable 90s.

 

Psychobio, which is a health sci course, on the other hand, didn't really reflect how hard I worked. I put in at least 5 hours a week on the weekly journals, and for each essay, my group and I met every day for at least 5 hours the week before it was due, and obviously did research/other crap on our own time. There are a total of 2 essays that are worth something like 35% each, and on each one, I spent close to 80 hours (which seems excessive... but it was a LOT of work). I still didn't get a 12.

 

I'm scraping by with high 70's in cell bio, our other health sci course. This class, I probably worked the hardest. For each TRIPSE (generating hypotheses on a problem and coming up with experiments to prove it), I studied about 30 or so hours, but once you go in to the TRIPSE, you understand that studying would not help you any - it's got to do with whether you can think on your feet, whether you're SMART, or whatever. I did not do very well on those, since I really need to work hard to get the grades I do).

For the final, they gave us the questions in advance, in the middle of the term. You may think that this means that it was sooo easy and everyone should have gotten perfect, but it was actually really, really hard. Not to mention that the material we're being tested on is (according to a prof I overheard talking to another prof) 3rd year pharmacology material (I also did AP bio and AP bio was SUCH a joke compared to cell bio), but each question required you go to go into such depth on a topic that it was almost ridiculous. Of the 20 questions that we needed to prepare (which actually took me a good 200 hours, and when typed out, took me to 75 pages on Word), we were given these four questions (if I remember correctly):

 

"You have a summer job in a laboratory designed to explore novel treatments for allergic diseases. You have access to an organ bath system in which you can set up an isolated preparation of intestinal smooth muscle. This preparation responds to the addition of agonists with an increase in contraction. The second preparation is a cell line derived from a mast cell tumour. These cells respond to the addition of stimulants by releasing histamine that can be easily measured.

Your supervisor has an extract from the root of a plant from New Guinea. Native healers believe that the extract works like magic against itching and irritation. She asks you to frame aproposalto determine apossible mechanism of action of the extract."

 

"The CONCERNED MAYHEM AGENCY (CMA) has been set up to help people. They do not discriminate on colour, religious affiliations, political leanings, gender preferences. Their sole criterion for helping people is their ability to pay. YOU PAY BIG WE HELP MUCH is their operative credo.

They have been approached by the Government of a newly emergent country that is facing serious internal threats. A bunch of ENOTS (Enemies -of-the-State) have gathered together to t thwart the ambitious plans to improve the country’s economy. The Group includes a rag-bag of do-gooders, tree-huggers, wimps, liberals, feminists. The Government is eager to use modern molecular methods to deal with the ENOTS. You are an identified expert on cholinergic and nor-adrenergic synapsesand have agreed to provide useful advice to the CMA. Prepare an action plan."

 

"Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are enzymes which function to degrade the extracellular matrix found in the cellular environment. Extracellular matrix molecules such as collagen require constant renewal (synthesis and degradation) in order to maintain structural integrity of the tissue. In fibrotic diseases, too much ECM is synthesized and to maintain this higher level of ECM, MMP levels increase in parallel. It is for this reason why patients with fibrosis often have higher levels of MMP proteins, which at first glance seems counterintuitive. In an effort to search for therapies for fibrotic diseases, inhibition of MMP activity is considered to be an attractive therapeutic target. Clinical trials using MMP inhibitors (such as MN001) have met with great disappointment due to the toxicity of the drug. However, they are still used as research tools to examine the consequences of MMP activity during the molecular events which lead to the development of fibrosis. ------- You are a preclinical scientist with access to lung biopsies from patients with pulmonary fibrosis. Your job is to study the mechanisms by which MMPs influence expression of other genes involved in fibrosis (collagen for example). What would the results of the following experiments be and why?

 

a. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

b. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from cells cultured from the normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

c. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

d. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

e. TGFβ1 is a potent inducer of collagen and MMP gene expression. If normal cultured lung cells were treated with TGFβ1 AND MN001, collagen gene expression is blocked. Offer a possible explanation for this."

 

"Describe in detail the process of transcription and production of an mRNA molecule. How does transcription differ from translation? What exactly is an mRNA molecule? "

 

 

Honestly, with the exception of the last question, that's not what a typical 1st year bio student would be doing. The amazing thing was, though, that I found out how much groupwork can actually help firsthand. Through about 1200 messages on Learnlink, we all shared critiqued each other's answers. Imagine, having 160 of the most motivated (and probably competitive) nature sharing the work that they've put hundreds of hours of work into, just for the well-being of their peers! That was just an unreal experience.

 

We also read, as part of our essays and other parts of the program, have been made pro at reading academic papers - I would guess that I read about 60 academic papers last term alone. As cell bio also has abstract-writing as part of evaluation, it is also necessary to read them fast (you have 2 hours!), understand it all, and then be able to summarize it in as few words as you possibly can, which are all valuable skills.

 

 

I'm sorry this post has been ridiculously long, but I don't understand how people who haven't experienced our pain of cell bio (*sniffle*) can even begin to tell us that our program is easy, jokes, or whatever. In my opinion, it's just a ridiculous amount of work and stress, so much so that many of us are considering switching out of the program.

[Indicula]

I normally wouldn't do this type of thing, but I feel like I have to say something. I'm also sorry for the untimeliness of this post.

 

I'm in first year BHSc, and for the most part, I've learned SO much.

 

I've taken both health sci and non-health sci courses (obviously) but in my experience, health science classes are much harder (On top of Chem I and II, I took Calc I and II and physics I as my electives).

 

Chem, calc, and physics are courses where the amount of work you put into it shows in your grade - I work reasonably hard in each class (let's say about 25 hours for each midterm, 45 hours for each final... which actually seems so much longer than it really is ), and pulled off my 12s with comfortable 90s.

 

Psychobio, which is a health sci course, on the other hand, didn't really reflect how hard I worked. I put in at least 5 hours a week on the weekly journals, and for each essay, my group and I met every day for at least 5 hours the week before it was due, and obviously did research/other crap on our own time. There are a total of 2 essays that are worth something like 35% each, and on each one, I spent close to 80 hours (which seems excessive... but it was a LOT of work). I still didn't get a 12.

 

I'm scraping by with high 70's in cell bio, our other health sci course. This class, I probably worked the hardest. For each TRIPSE (generating hypotheses on a problem and coming up with experiments to prove it), I studied about 30 or so hours, but once you go in to the TRIPSE, you understand that studying would not help you any - it's got to do with whether you can think on your feet, whether you're SMART, or whatever. I did not do very well on those, since I really need to work hard to get the grades I do).

For the final, they gave us the questions in advance, in the middle of the term. You may think that this means that it was sooo easy and everyone should have gotten perfect, but it was actually really, really hard. Not to mention that the material we're being tested on is (according to a prof I overheard talking to another prof) 3rd year pharmacology material (I also did AP bio and AP bio was SUCH a joke compared to cell bio), but each question required you go to go into such depth on a topic that it was almost ridiculous. Of the 20 questions that we needed to prepare (which actually took me a good 200 hours, and when typed out, took me to 75 pages on Word), we were given these four questions (if I remember correctly):

 

"You have a summer job in a laboratory designed to explore novel treatments for allergic diseases. You have access to an organ bath system in which you can set up an isolated preparation of intestinal smooth muscle. This preparation responds to the addition of agonists with an increase in contraction. The second preparation is a cell line derived from a mast cell tumour. These cells respond to the addition of stimulants by releasing histamine that can be easily measured.

Your supervisor has an extract from the root of a plant from New Guinea. Native healers believe that the extract works like magic against itching and irritation. She asks you to frame aproposalto determine apossible mechanism of action of the extract."

 

"The CONCERNED MAYHEM AGENCY (CMA) has been set up to help people. They do not discriminate on colour, religious affiliations, political leanings, gender preferences. Their sole criterion for helping people is their ability to pay. YOU PAY BIG WE HELP MUCH is their operative credo.

They have been approached by the Government of a newly emergent country that is facing serious internal threats. A bunch of ENOTS (Enemies -of-the-State) have gathered together to t thwart the ambitious plans to improve the country’s economy. The Group includes a rag-bag of do-gooders, tree-huggers, wimps, liberals, feminists. The Government is eager to use modern molecular methods to deal with the ENOTS. You are an identified expert on cholinergic and nor-adrenergic synapsesand have agreed to provide useful advice to the CMA. Prepare an action plan."

 

"Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are enzymes which function to degrade the extracellular matrix found in the cellular environment. Extracellular matrix molecules such as collagen require constant renewal (synthesis and degradation) in order to maintain structural integrity of the tissue. In fibrotic diseases, too much ECM is synthesized and to maintain this higher level of ECM, MMP levels increase in parallel. It is for this reason why patients with fibrosis often have higher levels of MMP proteins, which at first glance seems counterintuitive. In an effort to search for therapies for fibrotic diseases, inhibition of MMP activity is considered to be an attractive therapeutic target. Clinical trials using MMP inhibitors (such as MN001) have met with great disappointment due to the toxicity of the drug. However, they are still used as research tools to examine the consequences of MMP activity during the molecular events which lead to the development of fibrosis. ------- You are a preclinical scientist with access to lung biopsies from patients with pulmonary fibrosis. Your job is to study the mechanisms by which MMPs influence expression of other genes involved in fibrosis (collagen for example). What would the results of the following experiments be and why?

 

a. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

b. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from cells cultured from the normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

c. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

d. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

e. TGFβ1 is a potent inducer of collagen and MMP gene expression. If normal cultured lung cells were treated with TGFβ1 AND MN001, collagen gene expression is blocked. Offer a possible explanation for this."

 

"Describe in detail the process of transcription and production of an mRNA molecule. How does transcription differ from translation? What exactly is an mRNA molecule? "

 

 

Honestly, with the exception of the last question, that's not what a typical 1st year bio student would be doing. The amazing thing was, though, that I found out how much groupwork can actually help firsthand. Through about 1200 messages on Learnlink, we all shared critiqued each other's answers. Imagine, having 160 of the most motivated (and probably competitive) nature sharing the work that they've put hundreds of hours of work into, just for the well-being of their peers! That was just an unreal experience.

 

We also read, as part of our essays and other parts of the program, have been made pro at reading academic papers - I would guess that I read about 60 academic papers last term alone. As cell bio also has abstract-writing as part of evaluation, it is also necessary to read them fast (you have 2 hours!), understand it all, and then be able to summarize it in as few words as you possibly can, which are all valuable skills.

 

 

I'm sorry this post has been ridiculously long, but I don't understand how people who haven't experienced our pain of cell bio (*sniffle*) can even begin to tell us that our program is easy, jokes, or whatever. In my opinion, it's just a ridiculous amount of work and stress, so much so that many of us are considering switching out of the program.

 

The reason why people are skeptical: If you guys are truely all amazing and are really getting the marks you stated, your class averages would not be in the 90s.

[Indicula]

I normally wouldn't do this type of thing, but I feel like I have to say something. I'm also sorry for the untimeliness of this post.

 

I'm in first year BHSc, and for the most part, I've learned SO much.

 

I've taken both health sci and non-health sci courses (obviously) but in my experience, health science classes are much harder (On top of Chem I and II, I took Calc I and II and physics I as my electives).

 

Chem, calc, and physics are courses where the amount of work you put into it shows in your grade - I work reasonably hard in each class (let's say about 25 hours for each midterm, 45 hours for each final... which actually seems so much longer than it really is ), and pulled off my 12s with comfortable 90s.

 

Psychobio, which is a health sci course, on the other hand, didn't really reflect how hard I worked. I put in at least 5 hours a week on the weekly journals, and for each essay, my group and I met every day for at least 5 hours the week before it was due, and obviously did research/other crap on our own time. There are a total of 2 essays that are worth something like 35% each, and on each one, I spent close to 80 hours (which seems excessive... but it was a LOT of work). I still didn't get a 12.

 

I'm scraping by with high 70's in cell bio, our other health sci course. This class, I probably worked the hardest. For each TRIPSE (generating hypotheses on a problem and coming up with experiments to prove it), I studied about 30 or so hours, but once you go in to the TRIPSE, you understand that studying would not help you any - it's got to do with whether you can think on your feet, whether you're SMART, or whatever. I did not do very well on those, since I really need to work hard to get the grades I do).

For the final, they gave us the questions in advance, in the middle of the term. You may think that this means that it was sooo easy and everyone should have gotten perfect, but it was actually really, really hard. Not to mention that the material we're being tested on is (according to a prof I overheard talking to another prof) 3rd year pharmacology material (I also did AP bio and AP bio was SUCH a joke compared to cell bio), but each question required you go to go into such depth on a topic that it was almost ridiculous. Of the 20 questions that we needed to prepare (which actually took me a good 200 hours, and when typed out, took me to 75 pages on Word), we were given these four questions (if I remember correctly):

 

"You have a summer job in a laboratory designed to explore novel treatments for allergic diseases. You have access to an organ bath system in which you can set up an isolated preparation of intestinal smooth muscle. This preparation responds to the addition of agonists with an increase in contraction. The second preparation is a cell line derived from a mast cell tumour. These cells respond to the addition of stimulants by releasing histamine that can be easily measured.

Your supervisor has an extract from the root of a plant from New Guinea. Native healers believe that the extract works like magic against itching and irritation. She asks you to frame aproposalto determine apossible mechanism of action of the extract."

 

"The CONCERNED MAYHEM AGENCY (CMA) has been set up to help people. They do not discriminate on colour, religious affiliations, political leanings, gender preferences. Their sole criterion for helping people is their ability to pay. YOU PAY BIG WE HELP MUCH is their operative credo.

They have been approached by the Government of a newly emergent country that is facing serious internal threats. A bunch of ENOTS (Enemies -of-the-State) have gathered together to t thwart the ambitious plans to improve the country’s economy. The Group includes a rag-bag of do-gooders, tree-huggers, wimps, liberals, feminists. The Government is eager to use modern molecular methods to deal with the ENOTS. You are an identified expert on cholinergic and nor-adrenergic synapsesand have agreed to provide useful advice to the CMA. Prepare an action plan."

 

"Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are enzymes which function to degrade the extracellular matrix found in the cellular environment. Extracellular matrix molecules such as collagen require constant renewal (synthesis and degradation) in order to maintain structural integrity of the tissue. In fibrotic diseases, too much ECM is synthesized and to maintain this higher level of ECM, MMP levels increase in parallel. It is for this reason why patients with fibrosis often have higher levels of MMP proteins, which at first glance seems counterintuitive. In an effort to search for therapies for fibrotic diseases, inhibition of MMP activity is considered to be an attractive therapeutic target. Clinical trials using MMP inhibitors (such as MN001) have met with great disappointment due to the toxicity of the drug. However, they are still used as research tools to examine the consequences of MMP activity during the molecular events which lead to the development of fibrosis. ------- You are a preclinical scientist with access to lung biopsies from patients with pulmonary fibrosis. Your job is to study the mechanisms by which MMPs influence expression of other genes involved in fibrosis (collagen for example). What would the results of the following experiments be and why?

 

a. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

b. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from cells cultured from the normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

c. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

d. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

e. TGFβ1 is a potent inducer of collagen and MMP gene expression. If normal cultured lung cells were treated with TGFβ1 AND MN001, collagen gene expression is blocked. Offer a possible explanation for this."

 

"Describe in detail the process of transcription and production of an mRNA molecule. How does transcription differ from translation? What exactly is an mRNA molecule? "

 

 

Honestly, with the exception of the last question, that's not what a typical 1st year bio student would be doing. The amazing thing was, though, that I found out how much groupwork can actually help firsthand. Through about 1200 messages on Learnlink, we all shared critiqued each other's answers. Imagine, having 160 of the most motivated (and probably competitive) nature sharing the work that they've put hundreds of hours of work into, just for the well-being of their peers! That was just an unreal experience.

 

We also read, as part of our essays and other parts of the program, have been made pro at reading academic papers - I would guess that I read about 60 academic papers last term alone. As cell bio also has abstract-writing as part of evaluation, it is also necessary to read them fast (you have 2 hours!), understand it all, and then be able to summarize it in as few words as you possibly can, which are all valuable skills.

 

 

I'm sorry this post has been ridiculously long, but I don't understand how people who haven't experienced our pain of cell bio (*sniffle*) can even begin to tell us that our program is easy, jokes, or whatever. In my opinion, it's just a ridiculous amount of work and stress, so much so that many of us are considering switching out of the program.

 

not to mention any UofT life sci student will jump up and love a course like your cell bio where you are given the questions you are tested on beforehand.

[mattg]

I've got news for you, I have personally taken I believe 8 health science courses, and they have been ridiculously easy to do well in, for the most part ... I'm not arguing that health science courses don't require a time commitment - most do (for example, I just recently took 4th year neuroimmunology, which is a ton of journal reading... not completely necessary, but nevertheless)... most of these classes do require a fairly large time commitment... but that is because tests are not a large part of the program - it is largely journals, essays, presentations, participation (all of the subjective stuff), and that requires time... probably more so than studying for tests... i will give it to you that many health sci courses require a larger time commitment than normal science courses (although believe me, not all)... BUT, that is not why people are annoyed... it is because EVERYONE gets A's... not necessarily because you knew the material well, but because you put time into the projects, which are (subjectively) marked easily... it's like they're handing out "A's for effort"... nowhere else will you find a program in which EVERY course averages an A... hell, you will hardly find a single other course that averages an A (short of maybe "Body Mind Spirit" or "Gemstones" at Mac)... and yea, you guys are smart (you have to have done well to have gotten into the program), but you're not THAT smart... do you really think the fact that your tiny program makes up 85% of the Provost Honour Roll, and that every single class has an A average, while all other classes in university fall at B, at best (many at C), is purely due to intelligence? no... the program breeds doctors... I believe it has a 70% med school matriculation success rate (and then you have to take into account those who chose to pursue research, vet school, or other things)... in order to do this, to maintain its amazing reputation for breeding successful med applicants, everyone NEEDS straight A's more or less (as we all know), to be successful... no matter how smart you are, you all fall along a bell curve, just as people do in any other program... however, the program CHOOSES (and it is a choice, you have to understand... first of all because almost all of your marks are subjectively graded, and secondly because all courses and programs know more or less where they want the average, and test/mark accordingly) to skew your mean into the A range... whereas other programs (such as those people mentioned at UofT), many of which are composed of people just as smart, choose to set the mean of their bell curve much lower... or look outside of science, something like theoretical math - i'm sure anyone who decided to take on theoretical math as their major is quite smart, but i GUARANTEE you the class averages are far from being A's...

 

so do your courses require work? yea, I will say that, to all those who say that health science students do no work and are coasting... most of their courses DO require a significant time commitment... but EVERYONE does well - and not just does well, does amazing (note the Provost stat)... whereas in virtually all other programs in Canada, you have to be at the top of the class to get the marks required for meds, in Mac health sci, you just have to show up and yes, put in the time, but then you're golden...

 

I normally wouldn't do this type of thing, but I feel like I have to say something. I'm also sorry for the untimeliness of this post.

 

I'm in first year BHSc, and for the most part, I've learned SO much.

 

I've taken both health sci and non-health sci courses (obviously) but in my experience, health science classes are much harder (On top of Chem I and II, I took Calc I and II and physics I as my electives).

 

Chem, calc, and physics are courses where the amount of work you put into it shows in your grade - I work reasonably hard in each class (let's say about 25 hours for each midterm, 45 hours for each final... which actually seems so much longer than it really is ), and pulled off my 12s with comfortable 90s.

 

Psychobio, which is a health sci course, on the other hand, didn't really reflect how hard I worked. I put in at least 5 hours a week on the weekly journals, and for each essay, my group and I met every day for at least 5 hours the week before it was due, and obviously did research/other crap on our own time. There are a total of 2 essays that are worth something like 35% each, and on each one, I spent close to 80 hours (which seems excessive... but it was a LOT of work). I still didn't get a 12.

 

I'm scraping by with high 70's in cell bio, our other health sci course. This class, I probably worked the hardest. For each TRIPSE (generating hypotheses on a problem and coming up with experiments to prove it), I studied about 30 or so hours, but once you go in to the TRIPSE, you understand that studying would not help you any - it's got to do with whether you can think on your feet, whether you're SMART, or whatever. I did not do very well on those, since I really need to work hard to get the grades I do).

For the final, they gave us the questions in advance, in the middle of the term. You may think that this means that it was sooo easy and everyone should have gotten perfect, but it was actually really, really hard. Not to mention that the material we're being tested on is (according to a prof I overheard talking to another prof) 3rd year pharmacology material (I also did AP bio and AP bio was SUCH a joke compared to cell bio), but each question required you go to go into such depth on a topic that it was almost ridiculous. Of the 20 questions that we needed to prepare (which actually took me a good 200 hours, and when typed out, took me to 75 pages on Word), we were given these four questions (if I remember correctly):

 

"You have a summer job in a laboratory designed to explore novel treatments for allergic diseases. You have access to an organ bath system in which you can set up an isolated preparation of intestinal smooth muscle. This preparation responds to the addition of agonists with an increase in contraction. The second preparation is a cell line derived from a mast cell tumour. These cells respond to the addition of stimulants by releasing histamine that can be easily measured.

Your supervisor has an extract from the root of a plant from New Guinea. Native healers believe that the extract works like magic against itching and irritation. She asks you to frame aproposalto determine apossible mechanism of action of the extract."

 

"The CONCERNED MAYHEM AGENCY (CMA) has been set up to help people. They do not discriminate on colour, religious affiliations, political leanings, gender preferences. Their sole criterion for helping people is their ability to pay. YOU PAY BIG WE HELP MUCH is their operative credo.

They have been approached by the Government of a newly emergent country that is facing serious internal threats. A bunch of ENOTS (Enemies -of-the-State) have gathered together to t thwart the ambitious plans to improve the country’s economy. The Group includes a rag-bag of do-gooders, tree-huggers, wimps, liberals, feminists. The Government is eager to use modern molecular methods to deal with the ENOTS. You are an identified expert on cholinergic and nor-adrenergic synapsesand have agreed to provide useful advice to the CMA. Prepare an action plan."

 

"Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are enzymes which function to degrade the extracellular matrix found in the cellular environment. Extracellular matrix molecules such as collagen require constant renewal (synthesis and degradation) in order to maintain structural integrity of the tissue. In fibrotic diseases, too much ECM is synthesized and to maintain this higher level of ECM, MMP levels increase in parallel. It is for this reason why patients with fibrosis often have higher levels of MMP proteins, which at first glance seems counterintuitive. In an effort to search for therapies for fibrotic diseases, inhibition of MMP activity is considered to be an attractive therapeutic target. Clinical trials using MMP inhibitors (such as MN001) have met with great disappointment due to the toxicity of the drug. However, they are still used as research tools to examine the consequences of MMP activity during the molecular events which lead to the development of fibrosis. ------- You are a preclinical scientist with access to lung biopsies from patients with pulmonary fibrosis. Your job is to study the mechanisms by which MMPs influence expression of other genes involved in fibrosis (collagen for example). What would the results of the following experiments be and why?

 

a. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

b. RT-PCR of mRNA extracted from cells cultured from the normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

c. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies to detect collagen and MMP.

d. Western blots of protein extracted from normal and diseased biopsies then treated with MN001 to detect collagen and MMP.

e. TGFβ1 is a potent inducer of collagen and MMP gene expression. If normal cultured lung cells were treated with TGFβ1 AND MN001, collagen gene expression is blocked. Offer a possible explanation for this."

 

"Describe in detail the process of transcription and production of an mRNA molecule. How does transcription differ from translation? What exactly is an mRNA molecule? "

 

 

Honestly, with the exception of the last question, that's not what a typical 1st year bio student would be doing. The amazing thing was, though, that I found out how much groupwork can actually help firsthand. Through about 1200 messages on Learnlink, we all shared critiqued each other's answers. Imagine, having 160 of the most motivated (and probably competitive) nature sharing the work that they've put hundreds of hours of work into, just for the well-being of their peers! That was just an unreal experience.

 

We also read, as part of our essays and other parts of the program, have been made pro at reading academic papers - I would guess that I read about 60 academic papers last term alone. As cell bio also has abstract-writing as part of evaluation, it is also necessary to read them fast (you have 2 hours!), understand it all, and then be able to summarize it in as few words as you possibly can, which are all valuable skills.

 

 

I'm sorry this post has been ridiculously long, but I don't understand how people who haven't experienced our pain of cell bio (*sniffle*) can even begin to tell us that our program is easy, jokes, or whatever. In my opinion, it's just a ridiculous amount of work and stress, so much so that many of us are considering switching out of the program.

[DanG8]

I find it interesting how many people are so easily pointing fingers at Hth Sci for grade inflation, instead of reflecting on and questioning their own situations and institutions. As future physicians, this is a much more important skill than strengthening your index finger to point. Why does grade deflation happen at some other institutions? Why is it that the average for many university courses is set at 67.8%? Why are there penalties for professors who do not keep their course averages at this level?

 

It's not uncommon to look at a foreign culture that may have it better or worse than you, and look down on them in some way only because they are different. Just because this new program comes around, only 10 years out, and does things differently, doesn't make it wrong or ineffective. It's just... different! I'd hope the future physicians of the world would be tolerant to difference, not try to conform everyone to a set standard, which they themselves do not understand in the first place.

 

In the long run, when you all get to medical school, you will all be on the same level anyways. And GPA these days is not the make or break component of evaluation.

 

Quit bickering. If you're in first year, go get drunk. Second year, start MCAT prepping. Third year/Fourth year and above, start prepping your answers to cultural tolerance and determinants of health for your interviews.

[Indicula]

I find it interesting how many people are so easily pointing fingers at Hth Sci for grade inflation, instead of reflecting on and questioning their own situations and institutions. As future physicians, this is a much more important skill than strengthening your index finger to point. Why does grade deflation happen at some other institutions? Why is it that the average for many university courses is set at 67.8%? Why are there penalties for professors who do not keep their course averages at this level?

 

It's not uncommon to look at a foreign culture that may have it better or worse than you, and look down on them in some way only because they are different. Just because this new program comes around, only 10 years out, and does things differently, doesn't make it wrong or ineffective. It's just... different! I'd hope the future physicians of the world would be tolerant to difference, not try to conform everyone to a set standard, which they themselves do not understand in the first place.

 

In the long run, when you all get to medical school, you will all be on the same level anyways. And GPA these days is not the make or break component of evaluation.

 

Quit bickering. If you're in first year, go get drunk. Second year, start MCAT prepping. Third year/Fourth year and above, start prepping your answers to cultural tolerance and determinants of health for your interviews.

 

LOL. This remains the most amusing of all. You're saying that every university should switch to the foreign health science policy where 4.0s are handed down on a platter? What's is the point of a grading system if everyone gets the same mark? You might as well not have one.

[DanG8]

LOL. This remains the most amusing of all. You're saying that every university should switch to the foreign health science policy where 4.0s are handed down on a platter? What's is the point of a grading system if everyone gets the same mark? You might as well not have one.

 

You're taking the wrong conclusions from my post. I meant to say that there are many different grading systems and policies, why are we judging either one as being "wrong" or "insufficient"? Both have their merits and downfalls. As future physicians shouldn't we evaluate every aspect of the problem, in an unjudgemental fashion? It's an example of diversity, and it's interesting for me to see pre-med students so intolerant of it, just because they feel it harms them in some way.

 

Apply it to that patient that comes in wanting an abortion, and you're a practicing christian. Will you just say "No! and your way of living is wrong."? I'd hope not.

[pinklemonade]

Before you say more, Indicula, I think you should re-read my post, as many of the concerns you had about the difficulty of health science courses have been addressed there.

 

I also can see why taking health sci as an elective could be super easy - all of it is group work, and even if YOU slack off, other health scis will pick up the slack. So even if YOU don't work hard, you can take advantage of the fact that other health scis work hard and end up with an "easy" mark.

 

I ask that each of you who is questioning its difficulty try at least the first question of the sample exam question that I posted, and see if you can come up with anything feasible, then post your answer. Since it IS only first year material, you SHOULD be able to figure it out; I think many of you are past that point in your education. If you find it to be still a joke, then I guess you have the right to complain about how easy health sci must be. Otherwise, how can you judge a program you've never been in?

 

And I can tell you right now that the average for cell bio is low 70s, or maybe even lower - not the "90" you're thinking of (where did you even hear this? This is the most untrue thing I've ever heard). I'm pretty sure that if you took the non-health sci course averages of health sci students, it would be at least an 11.

[mattg]

And I can tell you right now that the average for cell bio is low 70s, or maybe even lower

first of all, there is no way the class average is a C or B-... i doubt anyone buys that... i don't really see what you're trying to get at.. that health science students DON'T all get high marks? I wonder how these B's and C's factor into all of the 3.95+ GPA's of health sci students... i'll give it to you, this course you're talking about seems hard - i've never taken it... but even if it is, one first year course isn't something to base sweeping statements about the health science program on

 

not the "90" you're thinking of (where did you even hear this? This is the most untrue thing I've ever heard)

Otherwise, how can you judge a program you've never been in?

I did 4 years at Mac, and have taken many health science courses over the years, and the averages are always around 11 - that's my source... what's yours? you've taken, what 3 first year health sci courses in your one completed semester?..... also keep in mind that many of the ones that I have taken are those open to science students as well, which have traditionally lower averages and are more "normal", but still the marks were quite high (plus I have also taken a fair number of pure health sci courses, which I got pre-req's waived)

 

 

I'm pretty sure that if you took the non-health sci course averages of health sci students, it would be at least an 11.

you're probably right that health sci students' averages in other class would be around 11... but firstly, a large majority of them take relatively easy electives in my experience (yes, and the first year chems, and orgo as well, as i'm sure you're going to say)... secondly, a health sci student will have at most, 3 exams... quite often it is 1 or 2... and health sci courses are not test-based, they are based on group work and such, as you mentioned... so you only really have to "study" (in the traditional sense of the word, as in for tests) for the 1 or 2 non-health sci courses... contrast this with a science student, who has a ton of tests, and 5 exams per semester (4 if lucky)... why wouldn't you do well?

 

anyways, as I usually do, I will say that all said, I do think health science is a really good premed program... the course selection, the opportunities, etc... I probably would have applied to it if I would have known about it... I have nothing against the program per se, not even that health sci students all pretty much get straight A's primarily for putting forth an effort - it's just how it is, i'm fine with in, and I do well also so it doesn't affect me much.... i'm just annoyed by the MASSIVE denial and delusion of health sci students, that they don't have it easier then everyone else when it comes to marking... many will admit it, but there's just way too much denial about it lol... pinklemonade, i can promise you health science is not harder than normal science programs as you suggest... it is not a walk in the park - you have to do work - but you will pretty much get straight A's, I can say that without even knowing you (I dunno about this C-average course you're talking about lol, but in the future at least)