Getting into Grad school without a 4th year thesis project?

[medhopeful64]

^Is this possible? Do I have to do a thesis project in order to gain acceptance into a masters program? Yes, I know that doing the research project will most likely increase your chances/shows you are interested in research, but say you just don't get accepted for one (a thesis project that is). Then what? Also, can you do research that wasn't that closely related to your undergrad thesis project? ie, say I researched animal physiology or something, and then applied for a masters in human genetics? Is that possible too? I just want to know all the 'what ifs' in case I don't get my first choice (which is likely). thanks!

[shannn]

You don't need a 4th year project, many people get in without 4th year projects.

 

Research is nice, but not necessary to get in.

 

Most supervisors want to know that you know what you are doing, but they also want to make sure that they will be able to stand you for the next 2 or so years.

[rmorelan]

Grad school is more about convincing a good supervisor you can work in the lab etc - if you can do that then it doesn't matter really what you took.

 

That being said there are a few fields were it is pretty much required. I know in my psych major they made it very clear that there was no hope of doing a masters etc without a thesis being done

[astrogirl]

It'll be a lot harder to get into a thesis-based master's program without doing an undergrad thesis. And if you do get in, you'll be at a disadvantage because you don't have the experience of doing a big project and writing it up. You don't have to do the exact same kind of research in undergrad as you want to do in grad school, as long as it's at least in a related field (ie you'd have a hard time getting into a chemistry master's program with a degree in psychology, but you could probably get into a theoretical physics master's program with a degree in math). Like rmorelan said, the big thing about getting into grad school is convincing potential supervisors that you can do the research you're wanting to do, and it's hard to do that if you haven't done an undergrad thesis. Some people have done it, but grad school admissions are getting more and more competitive, so if you've got enough time left in your undergrad, there's really no reason not to do a thesis.

 

If, on the other hand, you wanted to get into a course-based master's program, that would probably be fairly doable without a thesis as long as you have a 4-year bachelor's degree and not a 3-year one.

[thatonekid]

You don't have to do your undergrad thesis in the same subject area as your grad thesis. I sure didn't!

 

But some research based masters make it clear that it's mandatory for people applying straight out of undergrad to have done a thesis project in undergrad. That was one of the requirements for my masters. So, you might want to look into the ones you're interested in and see what their requirements are ahead of time.

[The Law]

I had no problems getting into a competitive grad program and I didn't do a thesis project in 4th year. Just show them that you've been well prepared for it and provided your marks are good, you should have a shot.

[medhopeful64]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Thankfully, it seems I have more options open to me than I thought. Always a good thing

 

Grad school is more about convincing a good supervisor you can work in the lab etc - if you can do that then it doesn't matter really what you took.

 

Hmm, so what if I simply volunteer in a lab? Is that good enough? Or an NSERC? (though I'm not sure what my chances are at getting an NSERC award). I think with the NSERC project, you get to be more involved with the research. Anyone know how similar it is to a 4th year thesis project?

 

I had no problems getting into a competitive grad program and I didn't do a thesis project in 4th year. Just show them that you've been well prepared for it and provided your marks are good, you should have a shot.

 

It'll be a lot harder to get into a thesis-based master's program without doing an undergrad thesis. And if you do get in, you'll be at a disadvantage because you don't have the experience of doing a big project and writing it up. You don't have to do the exact same kind of research in undergrad as you want to do in grad school, as long as it's at least in a related field (ie you'd have a hard time getting into a chemistry master's program with a degree in psychology, but you could probably get into a theoretical physics master's program with a degree in math). Like rmorelan said, the big thing about getting into grad school is convincing potential supervisors that you can do the research you're wanting to do, and it's hard to do that if you haven't done an undergrad thesis. Some people have done it, but grad school admissions are getting more and more competitive, so if you've got enough time left in your undergrad, there's really no reason not to do a thesis.

 

If, on the other hand, you wanted to get into a course-based master's program, that would probably be fairly doable without a thesis as long as you have a 4-year bachelor's degree and not a 3-year one.

 

ah, conflicting advice. I guess I'll just have to look into a few grad programs and see if they are competitive (i wonder if they have stats??).

 

I'm just worried doing the thesis project will hurt my GPA...

[Starling]

It's not necessarily conflicting advice; I think the important thing is to get some lab experience (where you actually have a project), probably the more the better. I did an honours project and an NSERC (but it was at a company, so probably a bit different). With each, I had my own project, but the NSERC was more like a real job (and the report at the end was really short) and the honours project was more like being a grad student (and the report at the end was much longer and I had to do a presentation). Basically, you need to convince a PI that they want you as a student (marks, lab experience, and them generally liking you).

[astrogirl]

I'm just worried doing the thesis project will hurt my GPA...

 

The only people I've known who got less than an A- or B+ on their undergrad thesis were a couple of people who were too lazy to do their own work and write it up properly and just spent the whole time whining. Or people whose supervisors were jerks, but you can just ask around to avoid working for someone like that. And if one A- or B+ after 4 years would lower your GPA, then you probably don't need to worry too much about your GPA. Plus by the time you actually get a grade for it you'll probably have already sent in your med school applications so they won't even see your thesis grade.

[rmorelan]

The only people I've known who got less than an A- or B+ on their undergrad thesis were a couple of people who were too lazy to do their own work and write it up properly and just spent the whole time whining. Or people whose supervisors were jerks, but you can just ask around to avoid working for someone like that. And if one A- or B+ after 4 years would lower your GPA, then you probably don't need to worry too much about your GPA. Plus by the time you actually get a grade for it you'll probably have already sent in your med school applications so they won't even see your thesis grade.

 

That is my understanding as well - I have 3 of them and always got good marks - basically you know what you have to do, you do it, and you get a nice grade

[Starling]

The only people I've known who got less than an A- or B+ on their undergrad thesis were a couple of people who were too lazy to do their own work and write it up properly and just spent the whole time whining.

 

Yep, I've never known anyone to get less than A-. Maybe medhopeful meant the effect on other courses though, which I think is a real concern. It's way to easy to let the lab work suck all of your time, so you just need to be disciplined.

[medhopeful64]

The only people I've known who got less than an A- or B+ on their undergrad thesis were a couple of people who were too lazy to do their own work and write it up properly and just spent the whole time whining. Or people whose supervisors were jerks, but you can just ask around to avoid working for someone like that. And if one A- or B+ after 4 years would lower your GPA, then you probably don't need to worry too much about your GPA. Plus by the time you actually get a grade for it you'll probably have already sent in your med school applications so they won't even see your thesis grade.

 

Oh right, that's true! It's just that in 1st and 2nd year, there was the one course that I did poorly on and it just kills my GPA. Going into 3rd year, I'm determined not to let any more of this happen again, and also def not 4th year. I need to make sure I excel 4th year. But nonetheless, thanks for all the advice everyone, much appreciated I guess I just need to work hard, and it should be okay! sweet