International Medical Graudates Trying to Return

[futureGP]

http://www2.som.uq.edu.au/som/FutureStudents/MBBS/Admissions/InternationalStudents/Pages/InternationalStudents.aspx

 

UofQueensland has 130 places for international students.

 

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/future-students/medical-program/international/offers.php#quotas

 

USyd has up to 80 international students (Additional to local students)

 

up to 25 seats at Flinders U

 

It seems like you have a greater chance of getting in!

 

There is a warning against UofQueensland medicine --> i heard there is an oversupply of med students against residency spots (or internship spots) :S

 

Australian schools are probably the best schools to go to with the best chance of practising medicine in Canada --> but they're REALLY EXPENSIVE eh?

[cclawfjj]

cclawfjj,

 

I don't remember referring to the US World Report & News. Please do not make strawman attacks to bolster your argument.

 

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/life-sciences/medicine

 

that's not a medical school ranking.

 

so your argument about ranking being useless on the grounds that it includes MIT on the list is fallacious

[tupacandbiggie]

As someone who is strongly contemplating Australia, I have to say I'm doing it for a mixture of reasons.

 

1) I can get permanent residency status there, so after I'm done school I can do residency and work there.

2) I want to do family medicine and even if I do the family med program there, I can come back to Canada as a family doctor without redoing Canadian residency.

3) I'm old (27) and don't want to wait the 2.7 average attempts it might take me to get into a Canadian university.

4) I don't have all the pre-requisites required so I'm limited in the universities I can apply to in Canada - thus decreasing my chances even more

5) Even though, yes, applying as an international my being slightly easier, in Australia, for example there are only like 20 spots per university for ALL international students -including USA, Asia etc.

6) There is also a standard to get in - at least in Australia - there are minimum GPAs, MCAT scores etc.

 

With many of my reasons, I'm sure there will be people saying, well, you SHOULD put in the time/effort to get the prerequisites, build up the ECs etc...and they may be right.

 

However, I would pick any Canadian university I got into over an Australian one if I get into both. But I'm going to apply to them at the same time and honestly, wherever I get into first is where I'll go.

 

Again u just supported my point. One would for sure consider a Canadian Med school over the international route. Also isn't their med school like 6 years instead of 4 here in Canada?

[moo]

If we r gonna use personal anecdote then you know one person that gave up Mcgill's spot to go study abroad lets assuming it's true, then I know at least 10 people who have no chance in hell to make it into any canadian med schools and went off to the Caribbeans. Also most of my premed friends know a bunch of these as well but non of us know of anyone that actually chose international over Canadian schools.

 

ps: when I say international i exclude the good schools in the states, I do know people that chose to go to Harvard over USASK for example (I would too). Another simple question is to ask yourself if u were accepted into a Canadian school would u study in the Caribbeans, Australia, or Ireland instead?

 

This is true. One of my friends got into UT, UBC, Harvard and JHU. Chose JHU. Another of my friends at Northwestern got into Mac and chose NU. I knew another person who got into UBC, chose Vanderbilt. Me, I only applied to 1 Canadian school and ended up withdrawing after I got into NU and Duke.

[Guest LeCreuset]

This is true. One of my friends got into UT, UBC, Harvard and JHU. Chose JHU. Another of my friends at Northwestern got into Mac and chose NU. I knew another person who got into UBC, chose Vanderbilt. Me, I only applied to 1 Canadian school and ended up withdrawing after I got into NU and Duke.

 

I believe he meant to address Carribean/Irish/Australian schooling vs Canadian. No one would question a strong American institution like the ones you mentioned, they are obviously top-ranked and respectable and many, if not all, would turn down a Canadian school for JHU/HMS/Vandy/NU/UCSF/etc.

 

Few, if any, will turn down a Canadian school for Carribean/Ireland/Australia unless they plan to move there permanently.

[futureGP]

This is true. One of my friends got into UT, UBC, Harvard and JHU. Chose JHU. Another of my friends at Northwestern got into Mac and chose NU. I knew another person who got into UBC, chose Vanderbilt. Me, I only applied to 1 Canadian school and ended up withdrawing after I got into NU and Duke.

 

did you find the bigger private schools had more funds and resources available for med students (that the public schools in Canada are lacking and always need to compensate?)

that would be one reason why I would go (Despite the huge tuition)

 

another reason is that it's harvard med (or duke med)... seriously + you get to study with the smartest+amazing ppl in the world (prestige of school)

 

but tuition is a huge factor (idk how much those schools support international students with tuition?) --> >40k vs. 12~19k

[leviathan]

that's not a medical school ranking.

 

so your argument about ranking being useless on the grounds that it includes MIT on the list is fallacious

QS World University Rankings by Subject: Medicine

 

Whatever you say.

[lostintime]

I know at least 3 people who turned down offers from prestigious American universities to go to Canadian med schools because of cost issues. Although I think in all fairness, if they had more money, they might have chosen the American university because of prestige (although family/friends probably played a factor too).

[jerkstore]

How do you apply to Australian/Irish med schools? Just go on a website like our OUAC and click "international"?

[tupacandbiggie]

I know at least 3 people who turned down offers from prestigious American universities to go to Canadian med schools because of cost issues. Although I think in all fairness, if they had more money, they might have chosen the American university because of prestige (although family/friends probably played a factor too).

 

Again like I said, good US schools=Canadian schools so you see people choose to go to either one, no big difference in the end in terms of matching coming back to Canada etc. But u don't see people turning down their offers from Canadian or American schools to go to the Caribbean or Ireland or Australia instead. Some of the members try to make it sound like these schools with low admissions standards r somehow on par with the good North American schools, and people go there because they choose to over the North American schools. It's false or at most with a few exceptions (i.e. Australia does have good standards for their local students so if you r already a PR there then I can see why you would want to move there for med).

[lostintime]

I know Sydney is pretty solid, but what about the other Australian schools? I always find the ones that accept a huge amount of international students slightly fishy.

[Kasiunut]

Again u just supported my point. One would for sure consider a Canadian Med school over the international route. Also isn't their med school like 6 years instead of 4 here in Canada?

 

Nope, they have both and most of the schools have a 4 year program, geared towards those who have an undergrad degree already. But even though I'd pick Canada over Australia its not because of the quality of education but more personal reasons because my family (sisters who I am close to), friends live in Canada and I'd be able to see them more. I have a car that I'd hate to sell, have a house that I just renovated that I'd hate to leave etc.

 

And yes, Australia is VERY expensive if you are an international but I can get domestic rates after my permanent residency is established, so it wouldn't be that much more expensive than Canada (for tuition). Cost of living there is more for sure though.

 

I wonder though, if some people on here arguing so valiantly for Canadian universities will sing a different tune if they don't get accepted anywhere in Canada...

[jerkstore]

I lol'ed

 

(10 char)

 

...wasn't a joke...

[crete]

 

I wonder though, if some people on here arguing so valiantly for Canadian universities will sing a different tune if they don't get accepted anywhere in Canada...

 

I think this is a great point! After 4 years of applying, getting a MSc, work experience and doing another undergrad I was just READY to start already so I applied everywhere this year including Carribs schools. I got lucky and managed to get accepted in Canada but I would have been on my way abroad next year. I think if you can get into school in Canada great - good for you. By going abroad you are taking some risks and may have some additional barriers of coming back - but I can understand why someone would take this route. Sometimes you have done all that you can do and you are sick of wasting time. It's time to forward and you do what you have to do to come back. I could have gone abroad many years ago but I didn't the courage or confidence in myself to do so - I admire people that are willing to fight for their dream. By reapplying here many times or going abroad it's all sacrifice and hard work. We shouldn't judge people for the route they take, especially if we don't know why they took it.

[moo]

did you find the bigger private schools had more funds and resources available for med students (that the public schools in Canada are lacking and always need to compensate?)

that would be one reason why I would go (Despite the huge tuition)

 

another reason is that it's harvard med (or duke med)... seriously + you get to study with the smartest+amazing ppl in the world (prestige of school)

 

but tuition is a huge factor (idk how much those schools support international students with tuition?) --> >40k vs. 12~19k

 

A lot of the bigger name schools will give out scholarships to really top students, even making tuition cheaper than in Canada. One of my friends had her first year paid for in full (still it amounted to about about 100K in three years). Many of these scholarships are not limited to Americans/PR.

 

You definitely get more connections at big-name schools. I'd say a full 15-20% of our class who started took a year off to do research at the big name places in the US (CDC, NIH, other schools). And last I checked, they all ended up in competitive residencies (ENT, ortho, rads, etc.) at big name places (Stanford, UCSF, MGH, etc.) so doing this I think definitely helps. And these were not MD/PhD students (we had about 10 MD/PhD students out of a class of 170). To do this, you need connections, and it's just easier at a big-name US school. When I came back to Canada, I was shocked to hear that this was discouraged, whereas in the US, this was fully encouraged and supported.

[leviathan]

I know a few people who got into both UBC and Ivy League schools and decided to go with the latter. Two of them had US citizenship though, and I don't know how it would affect your match ability if you don't have that, even if you went to a prestigious US school. I'm sure you'd have no problem with finding a family medicine spot, but many of the competitive American programs will not sponsor J1 visas.

 

For Canadian schools, you'd be considered a CMG, but without plenty of rotations in Canada to get your name out there, it might be difficult to match over a Canadian grad in a difficult specialty. I'm sure it happens, but you'd may have better odds if you went to a Canadian school to begin with.

 

Can anyone with more experience contribute their opinion on this?

[Robin Hood]

Unless you are very rich, I don't think anyone should go to an international school, yes you want to try your dream, but you will most probably end up with a 300k debt that you can't repay, and it's not worth it to ruin yourself.

Also, unless you have extenuing circumpstances, if you apply many times to North American schools and don't get in, then maybe it's time for a reality check. Also, for those who complain about Ontario being the lottery, instead of going international, wouldn't be better to just move to an other province?

[moo]

Unless you are very rich, I don't think anyone should go to an international school, yes you want to try your dream, but you will most probably end up with a 300k debt that you can't repay, and it's not worth it to ruin yourself.

Also, unless you have extenuing circumpstances, if you apply many times to North American schools and don't get in, then maybe it's time for a reality check. Also, for those who complain about Ontario being the lottery, instead of going international, wouldn't be better to just move to an other province?

 

A 300K debt is easily repayable with an MD salary in Canada, even a Family doc's salary. I paid my debt off a year out of my first residency, and now four years out and finishing my second residency, have enough left over for a 40%downpayment for a nice house in west side Vancouver, which I will pay off in less than 5 years. A 300K debt for an undergrad degree may not be worth it, but for an MD degree, it's the best investment you can make (yes, even better than real estate).

[blizzah]

A 300K debt is easily repayable with an MD salary in Canada, even a Family doc's salary. I paid my debt off a year out of my first residency, and now four years out and finishing my second residency, have enough left over for a 40%downpayment for a nice house in west side Vancouver, which I will pay off in less than 5 years. A 300K debt for an undergrad degree may not be worth it, but for an MD degree, it's the best investment you can make (yes, even better than real estate).

 

300k debt to go to a Caribbean school isn't the greatest investment though. I think that is what Robin Hood was alluding to but I'm not sure

[lostintime]

I don't know what the stats are, but I think Moo is a very successful example of someone who is very efficient and able to pay off debts quickly. Personally I wouldn't be too happy with a 300k debt and would find it quite heavy. Sure, the end is the most important thing, but if you're in a specialty program, that's 5 years where you're not making anywhere near enough to pay off all that debt.

[moo]

300k debt to go to a Caribbean school isn't the greatest investment though. I think that is what Robin Hood was alluding to but I'm not sure

 

It can be risky, no doubt. But if you're alluding to a US medical education, it's definitely worth it.

[Robin Hood]

300k debt to go to a Caribbean school isn't the greatest investment though. I think that is what Robin Hood was alluding to but I'm not sure

 

Yes, I wasn't referring to the US, I said international schools, US is considered domestic in Canada.

[jerkstore]

Yes, I wasn't referring to the US, I said international schools, US is considered domestic in Canada.

 

I'd have no problem going down there for a good chunk of years, if I could get in somewhere in California or Florida.

 

I imagine that would be pretty sweet.

 

I'd come back of course.

[drkwhy]

I'd have no problem going down there for a good chunk of years, if I could get in somewhere in California or Florida.

 

I imagine that would be pretty sweet.

 

I'd come back of course.

 

georgy boyyyy

[Robin Hood]

I'd have no problem going down there for a good chunk of years, if I could get in somewhere in California or Florida.

 

I imagine that would be pretty sweet.

 

I'd come back of course.

 

If I get into Florida, and I'm given the opportunity, I wouldn't come back.