International Medical Graudates Trying to Return

[aaronjw]

This sounds like a good idea.

 

If you can't communicate, you shouldn't be practicing medicine. It's just too dangerous.

 

Or serving me my damn coffee, taking my pizza order or calling to ***** about my erroneous cell phone bill

[Mourning Cloak]

Whats interesting though is that the UK is starting to select more against fellow EU countries. In other words, they're trying to favor Canada more than they do Germany. This is going to get weird/painful.

 

Especially since UK working conditions/pay generally sucks compared to Canada - I wouldn't expect there would be many Canadian attendings signing up for that deal.

[rswim]

http://www.cma.ca/index.php?ci_id=204375&la_id=1

[medigeek]

Why do IMGs feel "entitled" to being able to practice in Canada when you couldn't meet the standard of getting into a school here/in the US ? I understand trying to compete but some articles having been posted in the past make it sound like it's a major concern or something.

 

As a side note, we actually have more medical school spots per population than the US does.

[apache]

because med school admissions is retarded, you'll see when you're in med school, and you're like i needed a 3.95 to do this… serious??? why the hell does that girl with a 3.4 always do better than me on the exams… wtf, this is bizarro world…!

 

if you want my answer, it's that they're more clinically competent first year residents… no one cares what you did in undergrad, I'd rather have an ace med grad from Ireland than someone who failed a year in Canada, had to take their QE1 twice… but of course deserves the spot because they got into med school like four years ago.

 

Why do IMGs feel "entitled" to being able to practice in Canada when you couldn't meet the standard of getting into a school here/in the US ? I understand trying to compete but some articles having been posted in the past make it sound like it's a major concern or something.

 

As a side note, we actually have more medical school spots per population than the US does.

[Robin Hood]

This has been repeated 1000000 times, the biggest reason why IMGs are disadvantaged in residency admissions is because we don't have enough spots for them, and spots are created based on he need, like med school spots, so surely the CMGs will get priority.

[aaronjw]

This has been repeated 1000000 times, the biggest reason why IMGs are disadvantaged in residency admissions is because we don't have enough spots for them, and spots are created based on he need, like med school spots, so surely the CMGs will get priority.

 

Actually, med school spots lately, in my opinion, were based on politics and that includes the decrease that occured in the 90's and the increase in early to mid 00's

[medigeek]

because med school admissions is retarded, you'll see when you're in med school, and you're like i needed a 3.95 to do this… serious??? why the hell does that girl with a 3.4 always do better than me on the exams… wtf, this is bizarro world…!

 

if you want my answer, it's that they're more clinically competent first year residents… no one cares what you did in undergrad, I'd rather have an ace med grad from Ireland than someone who failed a year in Canada, had to take their QE1 twice… but of course deserves the spot because they got into med school like four years ago.

 

The best indicator of academic potential is done by GPA and MCAT. Med school learning is sheer memorization based and the best way we can "measure" that right now is GPA. The MCAT is an extra add-on to standardize everyone on the same scale.

 

The 3.95 vs. 3.4 usually would be a difference of slacking off during med school vs. studying 12 hours a day.

 

But generally, the US is an option for people wanting to go IMG. If you cant get in around the US after 2 cycles of applying to 40 schools... then chances are you're not good enough.

[zigma]

This is slightly off topic.

 

I heard that we have been getting more foreign born IMGs more than before. I think one of the requirements that need to be implemented is they must write MCAT before MCCEE.

Many candidates are good with sciences but verbal will weed out many applicants. If they would like to practice in English-speaking countries, they have to be subjected to the same requirements. Without this, I think the profession will experience oversaturation like what's happening with pharmacy and nursing.

 

I feel that Canadian and US students have to undergo so much just trying to get into the school. MCAT, volunteering, money, having to have at least 3 year undergrad, etc. On the contrary, foreign schools accept students out of high school without standardized exams, without interviews, etc.

[Robin Hood]

This is slightly off topic.

 

I heard that we have been getting more foreign born IMGs more than before. I think one of the requirements that need to be implemented is they must write MCAT before MCCEE.

Many candidates are good with sciences but verbal will weed out many applicants. If they would like to practice in English-speaking countries, they have to be subjected to the same requirements. Without this, I think the profession will experience oversaturation like what's happening with pharmacy and nursing.

 

I feel that Canadian and US students have to undergo so much just trying to get into the school. MCAT, volunteering, money, having to have at least 3 year undergrad, etc. On the contrary, foreign schools accept students out of high school without standardized exams, without interviews, etc.

 

High school in the UK and France (for exemple) is like HS in canada + cegep (first year undergrad in other provinces). Plus, there MD lasts 6 years.

[seeking1]

This is slightly off topic.

 

I heard that we have been getting more foreign born IMGs more than before. I think one of the requirements that need to be implemented is they must write MCAT before MCCEE.

Many candidates are good with sciences but verbal will weed out many applicants. If they would like to practice in English-speaking countries, they have to be subjected to the same requirements. Without this, I think the profession will experience oversaturation like what's happening with pharmacy and nursing.

 

I feel that Canadian and US students have to undergo so much just trying to get into the school. MCAT, volunteering, money, having to have at least 3 year undergrad, etc. On the contrary, foreign schools accept students out of high school without standardized exams, without interviews, etc.

 

I kind of agree with this, given that I have come to the understanding that the VR score of the mcat is the best predictor of success in medical school (don't ask me to quote that, I don't have a source). From a general fairness perspective, it only makes sense that IMGs do similar work to undergrad applicants.

[Robin Hood]

I kind of agree with this, given that I have come to the understanding that the VR score of the mcat is the best predictor of success in medical school (don't ask me to quote that, I don't have a source). From a general fairness perspective, it only makes sense that IMGs do similar work to undergrad applicants.

 

Why require the MCAT if they do the LMCC exams?

[zigma]

The LMCC is purely medical sciences, while MCAT has verbal reasoning as well as written (eventhough written will be abolished in 2015).

[axialpac]

It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever to subject IMGs to write the MCAT. There's really no point.

 

From what I gather, you want to subject IMGs to write the MCAT just so they can go through the same "hardships" as undergraduates so it is more "fair"? It's not like they have it any easier (in fact harder if I say so myself) getting to practice in Canada.

 

The MCAT tests basic sciences and reading comprehension--how will that be of any use in practicing medicine? The qualifying exams do a good job in determining an IMG's medical knowledge and that's all that matters IMO

 

Also VR is probably the most difficult part of the MCAT to most people. If native English speakers have trouble with it, do you expect foreign trained doctors to do well in it? Probably not. So that's discriminatory more than anything.

[Robin Hood]

It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever to subject IMGs to write the MCAT. There's really no point.

 

From what I gather, you want to subject IMGs to write the MCAT just so they can go through the same "hardships" as undergraduates so it is more "fair"? It's not like they have it any easier (in fact harder if I say so myself) getting to practice in Canada.

 

The MCAT tests basic sciences and reading comprehension--how will that be of any use in practicing medicine? The qualifying exams do a good job in determining an IMG's medical knowledge and that's all that matters IMO

 

Also VR is probably the most difficult part of the MCAT to most people. If native English speakers have trouble with it, do you expect foreign trained doctors to do well in it? Probably not. So that's discriminatory more than anything.

 

And most people in Quebec don't do the MCAT and a lot get straight from cegep.

[axialpac]

I kind of agree with this, given that I have come to the understanding that the VR score of the mcat is the best predictor of success in medical school (don't ask me to quote that, I don't have a source). From a general fairness perspective, it only makes sense that IMGs do similar work to undergrad applicants.

If you don't have a source then why bother writing it in the first place?

 

I think the whole "VR is the best indicator of success in medical school", "VR is the best indicator of what kind of doctor you'll be" statements are utter BS. Have there been any studies done to support these claims? Not that I have heard of. You can't claim a cause and effect relationship between two variables without years of data and a good experiment. Maybe there is a positive correlation but the results can also be confounded with other variables.

 

Also you stated that it predicts "success in medical school" -- what does that imply exactly? Good grades?

[zigma]

TOEFL is just too easy to be compared to MCAT verbal and writing. There used to be reading comprehension section in there which is nothing like critical reading on verbal reasoning.

[Robin Hood]

Quebec schools don't require the MCAT, are Quebec doctors less competent?

[lostintime]

Not doing well on MCAT is probably one of the reasons many Canadian citizens who went abroad in the first place?

[aaronjw]

Quebec schools don't require the MCAT, are Quebec doctors less competent?

 

They're paid less. Maybe that implies something? Lol

[Robin Hood]

They're paid less. Maybe that implies something? Lol

 

Doctors in other countries are payed less than in Canada (like the UK), are there doctors crappy? Or it's just Quebec-bashing?

[future_doc]

MCAT would be an unfair exam for those with French as their first and perhaps, only language.

[lostintime]

You do know that the rest of the world doesnt use the MCAT right? That the VR section was created to test native English speakers right?

 

Not all canadian citizens are born and brought up Canada.

 

As someone else mentioned : Many schools in the UK/ireland grant their medical degrees after 6 years of study. These do not require the MCAT. There maybe many CSAs who did not write the MCAT.

 

If you use this only for CSAs then you are violating the charter.

 

Lol such a presumptuous, defensive, and humorously accusatory post. I never said I agree we should make IMG's do the MCAT. Don't want to violate the charter there.

 

And I'm sure it's quite true that most CSA's have written the MCAT. Sure some might have done well, but I'm willing to bet many didn't.

[medigeek]

Not doing well on MCAT is probably one of the reasons many Canadian citizens who went abroad in the first place?

 

I doubt it... GPA is often the deal breaker here in Canada. The MCAT holds less value and can be repeated.

[dokrbb]

TOEFL is just too easy to be compared to MCAT verbal and writing. There used to be reading comprehension section in there which is nothing like critical reading on verbal reasoning.

 

TFI exam required by french univ for all anglophone students is also stupidly simple, nevertheless there are many of you who don't get the cut-off score - does this mean you - the english speaking applicants, are more stupid than your french colleagues ???