racketball Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Just curious about how uncommon it is for older non-trad students to pursue 5year surgery programs with the end goal of working in a community setting (suburban-large city rural)? Specifically general surgery. Things I am concerned about as I start school include: being employable without fellowship/grad degree work lifespan (~20years?) How old is too old to start working after residency as a surgeon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Just curious about how uncommon it is for older non-trad students to pursue 5year surgery programs with the end goal of working in a community setting (suburban-large city rural)? Specifically general surgery. Things I am concerned about as I start school include: being employable without fellowship/grad degree work lifespan (~20years?) How old is too old to start working after residency as a surgeon? Not that uncommon, but it depends on how old is old. 30 at start of residency normal. 40 at start of residency not that common. Employability will depend on specialty, desired work location and job market. Very hard to predict. Some surgeons work well into their 60's although they slow down the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 just based on what i've observed you'll likely be discriminated against based on your age if you're in your late-30s going into Carms. i've seen an incidence for surgery and one for anesthesia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka84 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 It is uncommon because there are few medical students in their 30's that plan to do a 5 year residency. In my experience, when my program ranks the applicants we do not discuss age at all. We focus on work ethic, personality, interest in our program etc..... I would rather have a more mature resident with some life experience than a younger entitled one. Good luck. Shaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketball Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Thanks, not sure if surgery or other 5 year residencies are for me, will be in my early 30s when applying via Carms but still don't want to rule out different fields because age is a factor (I've already limited myself to 5 year programs and know I don't want to do fellowships). I figure that once I finish a 5 year residency, if I do go that route, I can put in 20-25 years. My main issue is can this be feasible in General Surgery/Other 5 year programs without fellowships. Underlying age discrimination, if it exists, is definitely a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I speculate whether programs would really notice someone's age unless they stood out from the applicant pool - someone in their early 30s would fit in with the residents, and likely would also blend in with the 26-year-olds going through CaRMS - whereas someone in their late 30s would be older than some of the junior staff, and it might be more apparent that they are more mature than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketball Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Heh, yea the blend factor might work, people normally age me 5 years younger than I am, hopefully it sticks through med school. However my education length and CV might give my age away. I'm pretty impressed by some of the true IMGs that I've seen around at work, not foreign trained Canadians, who are older (40s) in 5year programs. I am guessing they have pretty impressive credentials to start with to land such spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 As the others said, 30 - early 30s is not uncommon for starting residency, so it's unlikely much extra thought will be given to your age as an independent factor (versus someone in their 40s), besides being noted as that person with the [xxx] degree / work experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rock Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 I started at 30. No big deal. What makes a difference is what experience and skill set you gained during those youthful years, even if you were just pumping gas to save up for your annual surfing trip to Australia. The one negative I would add though, is that if you are in a field that uses a microscope, you just don't have the same hands at 50 that you did at 40 (so I'm told). Therefore, your really good years as a surgeon are a little shorter than younger people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveSense Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 just based on what i've observed you'll likely be discriminated against based on your age if you're in your late-30s going into Carms. i've seen an incidence for surgery and one for anesthesia. lol.. 'likely' is a strong word based on seeing one incident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwodesperate Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 I started at 30. No big deal. What makes a difference is what experience and skill set you gained during those youthful years, even if you were just pumping gas to save up for your annual surfing trip to Australia. The one negative I would add though, is that if you are in a field that uses a microscope, you just don't have the same hands at 50 that you did at 40 (so I'm told). Therefore, your really good years as a surgeon are a little shorter than younger people. Is this an expected occurrence for all surgeons nearing 50 or does the magnitude at which this happens vary depending on the person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnmaple Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 Is this an expected occurrence for all surgeons nearing 50 or does the magnitude at which this happens vary depending on the person? Do human beings have individual variations in the aging process? I would suspect surgeons do too, unless they're somehow a different species. Alcohol intake likely also plays a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrivee Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 Do human beings have individual variations in the aging process? I would suspect surgeons do too, unless they're somehow a different species. Alcohol intake likely also plays a role. Sarcasm aside, is there a trend of decreasing dexterity/skill that has been noted with increasing age of a surgeon (an non-anecdotal trend, that is)? I would expect more years under the belt to be an asset for surgical prowess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sarcasm aside, is there a trend of decreasing dexterity/skill that has been noted with increasing age of a surgeon (an non-anecdotal trend, that is)? I would expect more years under the belt to be an asset for surgical prowess. Manual skills decline but surgical knowledge and judgement improve. For the 95% of operations where you aren't doin extremely fine work, the judgement gained tops the decline of fine skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 Manual skills decline but surgical knowledge and judgement improve. For the 95% of operations where you aren't doin extremely fine work, the judgement gained tops the decline of fine skills. I threw out most of my preconceptions of what an "aging" surgeon can do when I worked with a 80+ year old cardiac surgeon for a week. Aging is a rather variable process He is still kicking ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 lol.. 'likely' is a strong word based on seeing one incident Two people on several occassions. but yes likely is probably too strong. Be prepared for the worst is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osteon Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 I threw out most of my preconceptions of what an "aging" surgeon can do when I worked with a 80+ year old cardiac surgeon for a week. Aging is a rather variable process He is still kicking ass. And we wonder why cardiac surgeons can't find jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock2doc Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 And we wonder why cardiac surgeons can't find jobs... True enough. Seems like surgeons work till they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 And we wonder why cardiac surgeons can't find jobs... Like he said he is still kicking ass and of course loves his job - why would he retire. I basically think the world doesn't owe the incoming generation the automatic retiring of those above them If a doc is still doing the job well it is in the patients interest to have them still around with the decades of experience. ha and yeah docs in general are a slow to retire bunch. Actually that is one reason I like the field, I am not a 65 and stop kind of person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock2doc Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Understandable. When you are willing to put a minimum of 10 years in after high school, it must be because you love what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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