shearkha Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm still waiting too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff17 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Was expecting it, but still disappointed to see the letter. My GPA was nowhere close to 3.9 or 4.0 which seems to be the expected range (I honestly did not know - especially since UofT says they look at applicants holistically if they have above 3.6). I did have different circumstances that I addressed in the space that UofT gives to explain for why your grades could have been better, but it obviously did not make any impact. I think they should change that 3.6 on their website - like really at least make it a more realistic 3.8. While many of those that received interviews had wGPAs greater than or equal to 3.9, there are a few of us that received interviews below this threshold, so evidently the 3.6 (or 3.0 for graduate students) is still valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLily Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Sorry to hear about your UofT rejection. If it's any consolation we are McGill invite/UofT rejection buddies ! Hey there buddy same to you! And congrats on your other interviews, Ontario is sadly out for me (is it bad if I'm saddest about the backpacks? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestar10 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Hey there buddy same to you! And congrats on your other interviews, Ontario is sadly out for me (is it bad if I'm saddest about the backpacks? ) Backpacks are Canada Wide (except Ottawa) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Other grad students still standing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgson Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Other grad students still standing? Somehow yes, expecting a rejection any day now as my GPA is lower than those mass-rejected today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amichel Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I am almost (but not quite) as baffled by the caliber of the people rejected today as I was about Queens. What the heck are they looking for? I know there are thousands of applicants but with most schools you can see some kind of pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmatt1122 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I am almost (but not quite) as baffled by the caliber of the people rejected today as I was about Queens. What the heck are they looking for? I know there are thousands of applicants but with most schools you can see some kind of pattern. Same here. I feel super inadequate compared to some of the stats posted today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemons22 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Same here...I would guess quite a few are still waiting though so my hopes are not overly high Also waiting still! (Undergrad though, so I'm not holding much hope after today's facebook post...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLily Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Backpacks are Canada Wide (except Ottawa) My dream of a med backpack lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amichel Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Same here. I feel super inadequate compared to some of the stats posted today. I thought that I would get auto-rejected for lack of research, but there are tons of people with great GPAs, MCATs and lots of research getting rejected. So I just don't know. Oh well! Hopefully I'll get in somewhere else this year and will never have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Lots of activity today. I'm going to defend UT now. Obviously I am biased but I really don't give a #$%^ and you can take this post whatever way you want. I am hoping to present the school in the most realistic possible way. Firstly, it is important to realize that none of you know what truly happens in admissions. This is important, as absolute transparency would result in mass misuse of the system. If Admissions said "we value XYZ more than ABC" then obviously everyone will try to cover XYZ in their ABS. So do not blame Admissions for not telling you exactly what they are expecting- with over 4000 candidates for 259 spots, it is not reasonable to expect this. Furthermore- why should they advise you what they want? They are selecting for individuals who they think will become good physicians. While guidelines are important (and both the website and this forum provide that), there is no need for them to explicitly state what they want- that just results in hundreds of applicants trying to fit the cookie cutter. Secondly, UofT is one of the few schools that use a holistic system. I have seen endless whining on this forum for the past few months. It wasn't easy for me either last year. I was fortunate to receive an invite early. When I applied the year before, I got rejected pre interview in late March- not pleasant. Would you prefer that UT rejects you because you lack an 11 in VR? Or a 12 in BS? Would you prefer that UT rejects you because you scored poorly on CASPer, an exam that is implemented electronically with no controls and marked by first year medical students? Our Admissions process involves an incredibly sophisticated review of your ABS, essay statements, GPA, references and exceptional circumstances. AFAIK, no other school in the country puts this much time into considering your app. The Admissions Office is very small. I have consistently spent my weekends at interviews despite impending exams, risking losing a LOT if I do not do well on exams. I would normally not advertise this but I feel inclined to defend myself and my school when people hate on the process without understanding how it works. There is MUCH going on that you don't know about. Dozens of second years are spending their March break reading your applications so that you have a fair chance at an interview. It may be wise to give the school the benefit of the doubt. You ALL knew when applying that UofT staggers its interviews. Thus none of what is happening atm is new. We have an admission system that is very different from other schools. I think it is important to value that. I understand the frustration and the difficulty with waiting for so long. I hope next year to work with Admissions to make the process more comfortable for applicants. But at the end of the day, I think it is better to know your file was holistically reviewed rather than receive an e-mail that says "You were not selected because your AQ score was low" of "Your VR is does not meet cut offs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 You likely know little of how many people work well past 5pm to get your invites out. Or those that get up at 5am on interview weekends and stay there till well past 2pm on WEEKENDS and come in to work again on Mondays. We do not use a computer to decide whether to invite you or not. Dozens and dozens of human beings from med students to staff physicians are involved. This is THE most holistic review process in Canada. I personally think a couple extra months of waiting is well worth it if you are assessed this way. Sorry for the relatively aggressive post. It is frustrating when I see so much entitlement. The university does not owe you an interview. They are doing the most they can to select for the best possible candidates and it is incredibly frustrating when I see applicants who do not respect this. I can only point to the level of hate that the Mac forum suffered in January- an entire thread was made to hate on CASPer! No system if perfect and I think UT is better than most. ETA: Keep in mind that not everything is transparent on pm101. You have no way of judging how the essays were. You have no idea how the references were. You have no idea how they WORDED their ABS. I know of a friend who wrote "I volunteered in a research lab for two years" as his description when he worked with a neuro researcher on some very high level stuff. So naturally, the application looks weaker than it really is just because of his wording (I highlighted this in my guide). So do not just say "OMG this person with 4.0 and 5 pubs an 10 conferences got rejected." You do not know how they wrote their app and you have no idea about so many things that play a critical role in Admissions. Please do not assume this is a lottery- that is insulting to all the personnel involved. It is far more fair to assume that simply looking at pm101 posts do NOT give you an absolutely accurate representation of a particularly applicant's application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 If you have suggestions on how to improve the process then please post and I will take them up with Admissions next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathToMed Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Leon - Having shadowed the forum for a while now, let me take this opportunity to say I respect the effort you put into this site and alleviating the concerns of the various posters. You've given me a lot of encouragement, and I'm sure that speaks for the other posters as well as forums creepers (like myself) who will remain anonymous. The problem is that medical school rejection is one of the most severe forms of rejection given so much time was devoted to it by a typical applicant. I'm sure you can attest to this as well, but I recall reading an article a few years ago that described med school rejection as a traumatic incident - in fact one paralleling the loss of a friend. In particular, this 'friend' is one that we've gotten to know more closely than someone who was rejected in January. As such, it's natural to progress through the stages of grief, and unfortunately there's a lot of collateral damage and undue hate passed in the process. We tend to fixate on the 'changeable details' (such as transparency, as you've addressed) that may have worked in their personal favour, without knowledge of how it would affect the big picture (ie. it working in thousands of other applicants' favour, making it harder to distinguish everyone). All in all, your post is the 'slap in the face' some of us need to be roused from our depression/frustration, but it will take time. Please don't hold it against us, and keep doing what you're doing. We don't really mean it, and we do appreciate it. (: EDIT: To raise one more point, many of us are analytical thinkers, and in the process, guilty of the fundamental attribution error. "I'm a stellar applicant! The only way I could have been rejected is if UofT made a mistake. Therefore they're incompetent, hence it's a lottery system/they're lying/etc." And we reach these conclusions without considering errors in our analysis of the situation, such as flaws in our essays they may have picked up on, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Leon - Having shadowed the forum for a while now, let me take this opportunity to say I respect the effort you put into this site and alleviating the concerns of the various posters. You've given me a lot of encouragement, and I'm sure that speaks for the other posters as well as forums creepers (like myself) who will remain anonymous. The problem is that medical school rejection is one of the most severe forms of rejection given so much time was devoted to it by a typical applicant. I'm sure you can attest to this as well, but I recall reading an article a few years ago that described med school rejection as a traumatic incident - in fact one paralleling the loss of a friend. In particular, this 'friend' is one that we've gotten to know more closely than someone who was rejected in January. As such, it's natural to progress through the stages of grief, and unfortunately there's a lot of collateral damage and undue hate passed in the process. We tend to fixate on the 'changeable details' (such as transparency, as you've addressed) that may have worked in their personal favour, without knowledge of how it would affect the big picture (ie. it working in thousands of other applicants' favour, making it harder to distinguish everyone). All in all, your post is the 'slap in the face' some of us need to be roused from our depression/frustration, but it will take time. Please don't hold it against us, and keep doing what you're doing. We don't really mean it, and we do appreciate it. (: I truly understand - I applied twice and my first round was horrendous and I suffered for a very long time as a result of numerous rejections. My parents actually wanted to consult a psych because I would rise at 5am and spend hours sitting outside the house and just thinking. That was my summer in 2012. I utterly and completely empthathize with what is going on atm. However, I do think there is a mature way to deal with all this and blindly blaming Admissions is not the right way. It is not fair. It's funny because I have NOTHING to do with Admissions. As a first year, all I am allowed to do is help out at interview weekends but I nevertheless feel that there is mass overreaction on the forum. Over the past few weeks I have tried my best to alleviate concern and provide support, knowing how difficult the process is. And I do understand that on a day of mass rejections, such emotional posts are common. And I agree that losing an invite is similar to losing a friend- again, I am well connected to these abysmal emotional states. However, I hope to remind everyone that UofT is not your enemy- they are faced with a terribly difficult task of picking so few out of so many. Thank you for your post, and I definitely intend to stay around. I'm glad you find my posts helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 EDIT: To raise one more point, many of us are analytical thinkers, and in the process, guilty of the fundamental attribution error. "I'm a stellar applicant! The only way I could have been rejected is if UofT made a mistake. Therefore they're incompetent, hence it's a lottery system/they're lying/etc." And we reach these conclusions without considering errors in our analysis of the situation, such as flaws in our essays they may have picked up on, etc. I have personally run through every possible criticism of every school in the past. Ultimately, it serves nothing. I daresay I only gained acceptance by placing the blame on myself rather than the system and figuring out how to make myself more competitive. My posts on this forum serve one and one purpose only: to help you all gain acceptance. Nothing would make me happier than seeing hard working people in my school. This is not addressed to you but to those reading: If you are rejected, do what you need to do to get over it (it took me half a year) but after that, figure out what you need to do to get in. Trust me, it works. Read the links in my sig for I've explained it all there in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skynet Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Other grad students still standing? Still standing... not sure whether to feel hopeful or not! Opting for not thinking anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Firstly, it is important to realize that none of you know what truly happens in admissions. This is important, as absolute transparency would result in mass misuse of the system. If Admissions said "we value XYZ more than ABC" then obviously everyone will try to cover XYZ in their ABS. So do not blame Admissions for not telling you exactly what they are expecting- with over 4000 candidates for 259 spots, it is not reasonable to expect this. Furthermore- why should they advise you what they want? They are selecting for individuals who they think will become good physicians. While guidelines are important (and both the website and this forum provide that), there is no need for them to explicitly state what they want- that just results in hundreds of applicants trying to fit the cookie cutter. IMHO, U of T does explicitly say what they want and explains how applications are evaluated. It's on page 47 of the OMSAS manual. If an applicant was surprised by their rejection, I think they may benefit from some critical reflection on how their submitted application fulfills the specified criteria. U of T explains exactly what they're looking for in applicants. Did your submitted material demonstrate that you're the ideal applicant? This is the most concrete advice I can give unsuccessful applicants who plan to reapply next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwwwi Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Other grad students still standing? Yes .... For now at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Still standing... not sure whether to feel hopeful or not! Opting for not thinking anything at all. Preeeetty much what I'm trying to do.. Told someone yesterday morning that it felt like the day Ill get my rejection.. I actually had pretty much accepted it.. now after their FB post and the mass rejections, I feel like UofT is setting me up for a nice gut punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
une17 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 From the office on Facebook/Twitter: "A large number of refusal e-mails went out yesterday. While I understand that this is a disappointing outcome, remember that it is not uncommon for students in medical school to apply two or three times before being accepted. This is an extremely competitive program." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 From UofT facebook and twitter "A large number of refusal e-mails went out yesterday. While I understand that this is a disappointing outcome, remember that it is not uncommon for students in medical school to apply two or three times before being accepted. This is an extremely competitive program." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skynet Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Preeeetty much what I'm trying to do.. Told someone yesterday morning that it felt like the day Ill get my rejection.. I actually had pretty much accepted it.. now after their FB post and the mass rejections, I feel like UofT is setting me up for a nice gut punch I figure at this point we're probably in the group of grad applicants who still haven't been reviewed. If that's the case, the odds of acceptance or rejection are really no different than they were on day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Youre probably right. Realistically after yesterday, Id say our odds are no worse than day 1 and might be slightly better. Big part of me expects another wave of rejections today or tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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