jmatt1122 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 My dream of a med backpack lives! Pretty much how I came to terms with my Ottawa rejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta721 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Lots of activity today. I'm going to defend UT now. Obviously I am biased but I really don't give a #$%^ and you can take this post whatever way you want. I am hoping to present the school in the most realistic possible way. ... Secondly, UofT is one of the few schools that use a holistic system. I have seen endless whining on this forum for the past few months. It wasn't easy for me either last year. I was fortunate to receive an invite early. When I applied the year before, I got rejected pre interview in late March- not pleasant. ... Our Admissions process involves an incredibly sophisticated review of your ABS, essay statements, GPA, references and exceptional circumstances. AFAIK, no other school in the country puts this much time into considering your app. The Admissions Office is very small. I have consistently spent my weekends at interviews despite impending exams, risking losing a LOT if I do not do well on exams. I would normally not advertise this but I feel inclined to defend myself and my school when people hate on the process without understanding how it works. There is MUCH going on that you don't know about. Dozens of second years are spending their March break reading your applications so that you have a fair chance at an interview. It may be wise to give the school the benefit of the doubt. You ALL knew when applying that UofT staggers its interviews. Thus none of what is happening atm is new. We have an admission system that is very different from other schools. I think it is important to value that. I understand the frustration and the difficulty with waiting for so long. I hope next year to work with Admissions to make the process more comfortable for applicants. But at the end of the day, I think it is better to know your file was holistically reviewed rather than receive an e-mail that says "You were not selected because your AQ score was low" of "Your VR is does not meet cut offs" I appreciate and respect your efforts to help all applicants in their quest, as well as your valiant ambassador role for UofT. But I just have a curious question on the Admission's holistic approach to screen all applicants for interview, which is very sophisticated as you said, and thus can be very time consuming and a drain on limited human resources? In other words, such a holistic review process would/should have certain criteria to ensure its integrity does not change under pressure of limited time and human resources? Are there any opportunities to short cut, bypass, reduce the pressures when time and resources became critical, that perhaps without a stringent criteria, it may just "adapt" to meet the deadline? And in the process of adaptation, its holistic principles changes from the original objectives, such that it may not be "fair" to the remaining applicants who now may now receive "less" of a standard considerations as time goes by? You asked for any suggestions for next year admission, perhaps answering the above may result in some tangible criteria of such holistic reviews, making it more manageable and maintaining its integrity (if applicable). Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
designed Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just wondering -- Is there anyone in undergrad who are STILL waiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shearkha Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just wondering -- Is there anyone in undergrad who are STILL waiting? Undergrad here and still waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 With > 60 people viewing the thread, I suspect many undergrads and grads are still waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brule Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I have a question about the final evaluation process. Does admissions re-evaluate your entire file along with your interview and compare the different candidates post-interview? If so, do they begin this whole process only once all the interviews are over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rural_roots Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 It's finally over and really pretty hard to take with no other interview offers to ease the pain. Good luck everyone. I hope to see you when I get in next year Sorry pablo. Was rooting for you. Rejection is part of the process - those that get in first time are a minority. Chin up pal. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo_yike Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 If you have suggestions on how to improve the process then please post and I will take them up with Admissions next year. Hi, Leon, Thanks for all your posts and communications and for your contributions to the admissions process. I may or may not have a suggestion depending upon the answer to a question: Are all the file reviewers current MD students? If they are, I am concerned that 'mature students' [read old] may be at a disadvantage. The types of life experiences on a younger student's BioSketch and types of arguments made in essays are likely to resonate more with younger reviewers. Those who have not been in the workplace or undertaken activities that tend to pop-up after student life ends may not necessarily reflexively recognize how some of these life experiences may cultivate good physicians and/or MD students. Good research seeks to control for gender/age/race bias etc. and am afraid that age MAY [again, MAY, I know little, that's why I'm asking] be one bias that is not adequately addressed in this process because there are generally quite few older applicants. If the answer is that yes, most reviewers are currently on-track towards Medicine as their first academic and/or professional path, I would recommend that there be some guidance and/or training for file reviewers re: mature applicants. Of course this suggestion is self-serving. I am not even remotely suggesting that this is why I didn't get an interview. But in the interest of fairness for all candidates I think it matters. I know that my 26 year old self would have written very differently than my 38 year old self did. I know that my 26 year old self would have had a very different set of eyes looking over applications than my current self. And I definitely know that my experiences dealing with administration, colleagues, clients, parents, professional requirements.....make me a much better candidate than I was in my 20s. In court, a jury should be composed of peers able to relate to defendants and plaintiffs. I really think that should be true of an application process that aims to be inclusive and holistic. [Now of course if the answer to my initial question is 'no', then the rest of this post is wasted cyberspace, and wasted time for you and any other readers ] Thanks again for your time and efforts, P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo_yike Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Sorry pablo. Was rooting for you. Rejection is part of the process - those that get in first time are a minority. Chin up pal. RR thanks for the kind words. Best of luck with NOSM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skynet Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 [Now of course if the answer to my initial question is 'no', then the rest of this post is wasted cyberspace, and wasted time for you and any other readers ] It's not wasted space at all. It's important for us all to think about the kinds of biases that could corrupt a selection process. It seems likely that many of the people reading this thread will be on admissions committees in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ. Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 If you have suggestions on how to improve the process then please post and I will take them up with Admissions next year. UofT is great in that they do a full file review of your application. Should you be lacking in certain components of your application (i.e GPA) you can make it up in other areas (essays, ECs etc) which is important in picking out a well rounded cohort of future physicians. What I think that they could work on is the transparency of their process. I particularly like what UCalgary has done, where the system is structured to the point where you know when your file has been reviewed and how you scored on certain qualities they are looking for in their applicants. I realize this is difficult to do for a large number of applicants, and that UCalgary has the benefit of their own system (UCAN), however I think that discussion in increasing transparency of the process in any other possible ways should be welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo_yike Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Two more thoughts: #1 Reference letters are tricky for older applicants: "Note: Reference letters must not be provided by family members or long‑standing friends or colleagues of you or your family as we do not consider them to be objective. (An exception will be made for letters from religious leaders.) Applications from candidates with reference letters from family, colleagues or friends will not be considered." There are very few people in my life who qualify under that restriction. My bosses, fellow-teachers, president of the board to clubs I volunteer at, etc. are all long-term colleagues and/or friends. The wording of this requirement almost seems to preclude older applicants. I ended up using the mother of a student I taught because I didn't know her for as long as I have known my principal. Did this raise a red-flag because I didn't have a letter from my boss, when I only precluded them in an effort to follow the directive? While I used him, my adviser and private teacher from university has known me for 20 years. #2 I wonder if U of T would consider doing a statistical comparison of interview invites based on GPA vs. age. If there is no correlation, there is probably no need to go into comparing other admissions criteria which would be much more difficult and time consuming. But if there is and one age group gets fewer invites with comparable GPA, it is certainly worth trying to understand how/why. I don't know how much of the review process is recorded in spreadsheets/databases, but it should be a relatively easy and fast study to perform. Heck, it might even be a publishable study (now wouldn't that be ironic?) with value to admissions committees in schools everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savac Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 "Note: Reference letters must not be provided by family members or long‑standing friends or colleagues of you or your family as we do not consider them to be objective. (An exception will be made for letters from religious leaders.) Applications from candidates with reference letters from family, colleagues or friends will not be considered." There are very few people in my life who qualify under that restriction. My bosses, fellow-teachers, president of the board to clubs I volunteer at, etc. are all long-term colleagues and/or friends. The wording of this requirement almost seems to preclude older applicants. I ended up using the mother of a student I taught because I didn't know her for as long as I have known my principal. Did this raise a red-flag because I didn't have a letter from my boss, when I only precluded them in an effort to follow the directive? While I used him, my adviser and private teacher from university has known me for 20 years. You definitely could have used your boss. When they say colleague, they mean a co-worker such as a fellow teacher in your case. Using the principal of the school would have been fine because he/she is in a position to make an objective evaluation of your suitability for practicing medicine. Edit: The president of the club where you volunteer would probably also be fine, assuming you weren't friends beforehand. It's fine if you became friends after the fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Calm before the next storm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skynet Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Calm before the next storm? Not expecting there to be anything until Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwr2013 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Definitely a calm after the last storm..now there is really very few of us left.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prometheus321 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 famous last words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Feels like there are several grad students still waiting. Wonder how many spots they held...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skynet Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 So many ellipses....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACHQ Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Are all the file reviewers current MD students? Hi pablo_yike, No, not all file reviewers are current MD students. People involved in Admissions and file review range from current MD students (in which some are "mature" students), residents, staff physicians, admissions admin etc... Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACHQ Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have a question about the final evaluation process. Does admissions re-evaluate your entire file along with your interview and compare the different candidates post-interview? If so, do they begin this whole process only once all the interviews are over? No they just take your scores from the extensive file review pre interview and add the score from the interviews to come up with a final score. The weighting is not 100% known to be a certain way, but that's how its generally done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStar Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Think tomorrow is D-day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDistress Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Best of luck to all those still waiting to hear back! If this isn't your year, keep trying until it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks for all the feedback. I'll compile them and pass them onto Admissions next year to try and make the process more pleasant for applicants next cycle. Good luck to everyone still waiting! And for those of you that received regrets, my only advice is to look at your sketch and essays and review who you selected as references- these letters are important and make sure you pick STRONG referees. There is no point in having a stellar application and useless refs. Assess your app for yourself after a few weeks and try and identify areas of weakness. And remember to keep trying. If it's meant to be, it will happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwr2013 Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Only 25 people viewing...compared to last Monday where there was like 80 people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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