Match Success Rate Of Canadian Grads Into U.s. Residency

[rmorelan]

36 minutes ago, tere said:

There's also differences between fellow and resident.  Returning to Canada after US residency doesn't give automatic Canadian licensing for many specialties.  So H1B would probably be preferred, since there's no 2 year return requirement after residency (and have a chance at a Green card).  OTOH this wouldn't be an issue for fellowship.  

true - you are going to want to be very careful with this sort of thing in any case. I usually like to assume you are going to be doing everything in the US if you are going there for residency when taking to people as it is just safer. 

 

[rmorelan]

2 hours ago, tere said:

There's also differences between fellow and resident.  Returning to Canada after US residency doesn't give automatic Canadian licensing for many specialties.  So H1B would probably be preferred, since there's no 2 year return requirement after residency (and have a chance at a Green card).  OTOH this wouldn't be an issue for fellowship.  

less of a problem it is not unusual to get offered job opportunities as a fellow. Having a H1B would allow you to potentially act on those opportunities. 

[Edict]

3 hours ago, ZBL said:

The question of Canadian match rate to the US is irrelevant as the number of confounding factors here are huge. USMLE score (massively important factor), reference letters from big names in the field, MD/PhD (often with lab connections), desired specialty (also massively important factor), availability of J-1 visa for your specialty, availability of H1-B visa for your desired residency, if you have US citizenship etc all have a much bigger influence than the mere fact of being from a Canadian school. Without a strong USMLE and at least one or ideally more of the others in check, the match rate from a Canadian school to the US is essentially zero.

 

I disagree with this, I don't think you can truly say this with facts to back it up. I don't see why someone with an average USMLE, CMG, no connections to the US but does electives, wouldn't match to a regular specialty. If anything, a CMG would be a unique applicant and some larger programs may take one just out of novelty and curiosity. 

[ZBL]

1 hour ago, Edict said:

I disagree with this, I don't think you can truly say this with facts to back it up. I don't see why someone with an average USMLE, CMG, no connections to the US but does electives, wouldn't match to a regular specialty. If anything, a CMG would be a unique applicant and some larger programs may take one just out of novelty and curiosity. 

So in fact you do agree! You have agreed that you need some reasonable USMLE score and then maybe you get considered at some middle of the road programs in non competitive specialties. But changing one of those things, ie. if the USMLE isn’t there, or the specialty is competitive, that same person isn’t matching. But there are two important things to consider here: 

1. Most Canadians writing the USMLE do so just for a passing mark - as an entry ticket to certain fellowships or career opportunities down the road without intent of matching to the US for residency. No one is matching with just a passing mark. An “average” score is actually not that easy to obtain, and a high score is hard.

2. An average USMLE might open the door to some middle of the road IM or FM programs in the US, as you mentioned, but really who is applying to the US looking for a middle of the road FM/IM residency? Most who want to go to the US want to go for the Harvards and Stanfords, or have dreams of training at some big centre in a subspecialty. Those need stellar USMLEs, research and all the other goods. And I’m certain anyone who could match to a middle of the road IM program in the US could match somewhere in Canada.

[Edict]

36 minutes ago, ZBL said:

So in fact you do agree! You have agreed that you need some reasonable USMLE score and then maybe you get considered at some middle of the road programs in non competitive specialties. But changing one of those things, ie. if the USMLE isn’t there, or the specialty is competitive, that same person isn’t matching. But there are two important things to consider here: 

1. Most Canadians writing the USMLE do so just for a passing mark - as an entry ticket to certain fellowships or career opportunities down the road without intent of matching to the US for residency. No one is matching with just a passing mark. An “average” score is actually not that easy to obtain, and a high score is hard.

2. An average USMLE might open the door to some middle of the road IM or FM programs in the US, as you mentioned, but really who is applying to the US looking for a middle of the road FM/IM residency? Most who want to go to the US want to go for the Harvards and Stanfords, or have dreams of training at some big centre in a subspecialty. Those need stellar USMLEs, research and all the other goods. And I’m certain anyone who could match to a middle of the road IM program in the US could match somewhere in Canada.

I agree with this, i think i disagreed mainly with your last statement of your first paragraph, which probably just wasn't worded right. "Without a strong USMLE and at least one or ideally more of the others in check, the match rate from a Canadian school to the US is essentially zero." 

Some people do apply to the US for family/friends or to join loved ones. In those cases they may just be aiming for a certain city. We both agree that for those people you don't need to be a super star and essentially you can match similarly to an US MD grad, although it may be a slight disadvantage overall.  

[polarbear89]

22 hours ago, tere said:

Yes - my understanding is you're only eligible to apply when you complete your Canadian residency. At that point you can get a SON from Health Canada for a J-1 visa, under Category B (post above).  Out of the 9 CMGs that matched to the US last year, 7/9 were prior year graduates.  I'd suspect most would prefer H1Bs rather than J-1s, but these can be harder to obtain I think.   

Interesting, thank you. Would this mean someone could apply to the us match during their last year of residency? 

Also, can current Canadian residents transfer to the US? 

[indefatigable]

12 hours ago, polarbear89 said:

Interesting, thank you. Would this mean someone could apply to the us match during their last year of residency? 

Also, can current Canadian residents transfer to the US? 

I believe an individual could apply to the US match in their last year of residency - supposing that US MLEs were written,..  

I don't think transfers to the US are possible.  Transfers within Canada aren't easy and the US is a completely different jurisdiction.  

[Laika]

On 11/24/2018 at 11:18 AM, rmorelan said:

The H1Bs is in some senses better as you can moonlight, and directly transition to permanently living in the US. That being said although the J1 visa has a 2 year return requirement before you can go back to the US to live (stalling any transfer to permanently live in the US)

This is generally correct, but I would add that it is possible to stay and work in the US on an O visa after having trained on a J1.  Just be aware this is an option for some trainees in case they decide to stay in the US and work after fellowship.

[rmorelan]

11 hours ago, Laika said:

This is generally correct, but I would add that it is possible to stay and work in the US on an O visa after having trained on a J1.  Just be aware this is an option for some trainees in case they decide to stay in the US and work after fellowship.

It is! that is one possibility in fact if I want to stay in the US for a bit after my fellowships. I never thought of it before but for some of us our particular set of skills may be rare enough to remain. I am a computer scientist and doctor, which is a rare enough combination to potentially apply I have been told. The wording of that visa is rather grandiose of course so it may not ha! 

I have no information on how often that is applied etc. It would be nice to know actually. 

[Laika]

4 hours ago, rmorelan said:

It is! that is one possibility in fact if I want to stay in the US for a bit after my fellowships. I never thought of it before but for some of us our particular set of skills may be rare enough to remain. I am a computer scientist and doctor, which is a rare enough combination to potentially apply I have been told. The wording of that visa is rather grandiose of course so it may not ha! 

I have no information on how often that is applied etc. It would be nice to know actually. 

I don't know how often J1 physicians use it to stay in the US, but it's definitely possible, and the threshold is far lower than a Nobel. You should PM me for more details if you decide to work in the US after your fellowship (assuming you're on a J1).