The Tenative Psa Agreement

[ploughboy]

In case for some reason you're reading pm101 on a beautiful sunny Sunday, and in case you want to watch the live stream of the General Meeting, it's available on the OMA website.

[NeuroD]

In case for some reason you're reading pm101 on a beautiful sunny Sunday, and in case you want to watch the live stream of the General Meeting, it's available on the OMA website.

 

It's actually entertaining. Some of the speeches against are amazing, wish I was there.

[ploughboy]

It's actually entertaining. Some of the speeches against are amazing, wish I was there.

 

Ya, some real barn-burner speeches being given!

 

If you're a tweeter, follow #tpsa2016

[NeuroD]

The speeches "for" are depressing and fear-mongering, and they all start with: "Is it the it the best deal? No." lol.

 

Its pathetic to see doctors look so beaten-down. The "for" speakers all saying "its not the best deal, but we're tired of being abused by the liberals so we're giving in". Sad .

[ploughboy]

Pro-tip: If you're a CC3, don't publicly tell every physician in the whole province who is more senior than you that "you couldn't get into medical school today".

 

That's what known as a career-limiting-move.

[tdp43]

Pro-tip: If you're a CC3, don't publicly tell every physician in the whole province who is more senior than you that "you couldn't get into medical school today".

 

That's what known as a career-limiting-move.

Did this really happen? I'm following tweets right now and it's confusing. 

[ploughboy]

Did this really happen? I'm following tweets right now and it's confusing. 

 

There was a lot going on, so I might have telescoped his thesis into a pithy sound-bite.  Once an archived version of the meeting shows up on the web, I will check for the exact quote (unless you beat me to it).  But I think I'm pretty close to quoting him word-for-word.

 

Regardless of the exact quote, his speech definitely hit my "don't assign this trainee to any patient or family who requires tact, diplomacy, and clinical and social judgement" hot button.  

 

Hard to get a good reference once you've made that sort of first impression.

[rmorelan]

There was a lot going on, so I might have telescoped his thesis into a pithy sound-bite.  Once an archived version of the meeting shows up on the web, I will check for the exact quote (unless you beat me to it).  But I think I'm pretty close to quoting him word-for-word.

 

Regardless of the exact quote, his speech definitely hit my "don't assign this trainee to any patient or family who requires tact, diplomacy, and clinical and social judgement" hot button.  

 

Hard to get a good reference once you've made that sort of first impression.

 

ha, yeah. I am sure part of it was inexperience, and stress of the day but still. The profession doesn't take too kindly to comments like that.

 

Even if they are true - technically the admission average to medical school is vastly higher than it used to be, with potentially of course grade inflation of course, but still some have questioned if the requirements are much higher now.

 

Questioned but just not at a major OMA event......

[thestar10]

I was at the meeting today. In regards to the medical student comment, it was meant to be understood as:

 

The people who have been arguing about the PSA have been unprofessional and that their unprofessionalism would prevent them from getting into medical school.

 

It came off badly, was hyperbolic and could have been phrased better but I agree with it's sentiments. 

 

There have been several comments in the COD group that are completely unacceptable. 

[ralk]

I was at the meeting today. In regards to the medical student comment, it was meant to be understood as:

 

The people who have been arguing about the PSA have been unprofessional and that their unprofessionalism would prevent them from getting into medical school.

 

It came off badly, was hyperbolic and could have been phrased better but I agree with it's sentiments. 

 

There have been several comments in the COD group that are completely unacceptable. 

 

Yeah, it was a bit disheartening reading the twitter feeds with the perpetual comments along the lines of "only the side I disagree with is behaving badly!" - there was no moral high ground between the contrasting viewpoints, plenty to dislike coming from both sides. Some individuals were outstanding representatives of the profession and many were at least polite, but today was not a high point for physician professionalism.

[rmorelan]

I was at the meeting today. In regards to the medical student comment, it was meant to be understood as:

 

The people who have been arguing about the PSA have been unprofessional and that their unprofessionalism would prevent them from getting into medical school.

 

It came off badly, was hyperbolic and could have been phrased better but I agree with it's sentiments. 

 

There have been several comments in the COD group that are completely unacceptable. 

 

that makes more sense. It was hard to imagine someone actually doing exactly what was described.

 

Hopefully I will get to review the talk shortly - stuck at work ha

[ploughboy]

that makes more sense. It was hard to imagine someone actually doing exactly what was described.

 

I was mildly gob-smacked during the live feed.  I think the exact words I yelled at my screen were "you didn't just say that, did you?".

 

I as mentioned upthread there was a lot going on at the time.  Possible I mis-interpreted him.  Might be less harsh when I get a chance to see it again.  

 

Maybe.

[NLengr]

When will we know results?

[thestar10]

When will we know results?

 

They don't know. Hopefully Monday or Tuesday but the OAR has supposedly launching a legal action/challenge that may delay it. 

[rmorelan]

They don't know. Hopefully Monday or Tuesday but the OAR has supposedly launching a legal action/challenge that may delay it. 

 

ha, more drama. I will say this much - the OAR is quite an active organization.

[ploughboy]

Rejected.  63% against, with 55% of members casting a vote.

 

The next few months (years?) are going to be really interesting...

[ralk]

Rejected.  63% against, with 55% of members casting a vote.

 

The next few months (years?) are going to be really interesting...

 

Result isn't a huge surprise, but the turnout is. I guess a lot of people just wanted nothing to do with this.

 

Agreed though, going to be an interested next couple of months-to-years. I'm glad the tPSA was rejected, but this is far from being a good day. One way or another, some undesirable changes are coming.

[ellorie]

I voted yes, after much deliberation and being conflicted.

 

I can't help feeling that this will likely result in more public opinion turning against physicians, and more unilateral cuts, and we'll all just be worse off.  Not very hopeful over here.

[NeuroD]

I voted no, and I'm ecstatic about the outcome. Doesn't mean I think things are going to be easy the next couple of years, but I'd rather they be right than easy.

[NeuroD]

I voted yes, after much deliberation and being conflicted.

 

I can't help feeling that this will likely result in more public opinion turning against physicians, and more unilateral cuts, and we'll all just be worse off. Not very hopeful over here.

The consistent unilateral cuts against us, and the real impact it had on Health Care in this province, should be enough to sway public opinion in our favor. If the OMA spent half the effort they spent on the PSA on that campaign, they would have already moved the needle in out favor.

 

The liberals are hurting doctors and patients. The effects are real and measurable. Reality is on our side, if we're smart it won't be hard to get the public on our side either.

[ellorie]

Yeah it totally should be enough.  But I doubt it actually will be.  In the minds of the public, we are money-hungry, overpaid, and negligent.  The slander job the government has done on us has been really really good.  I will be very surprised if there is any significant public voice in our favour.  I think the government will continue to cut, probably worse than they would have with the tPSA, and instead of targeting the cuts to address the income disparity among physicians, we'll all suffer and particularly family physicians.

 

Our only hope now is that Charter challenge ending in binding arbitration.

[IMislove]

The consistent unilateral cuts against us, and the real impact it had on Health Care in this province, should be enough to sway public opinion in our favor. If the OMA spent half the effort they spent on the PSA on that campaign, they would have already moved the needle in out favor.

 

The liberals are hurting doctors and patients. The effects are real and measurable. Reality is on our side, if we're smart it won't be hard to get the public on our side either.

 

 

Only time will tell. The Star, which already is anti-physician, published an article today with the first few paragraphs almost making it seem like COD were pretty money hungry for voting no, due a majority of them being part of highly grossing specialties. Already I see comments through social media with the same sentiment. I agree with ellorie, the government did a good number on making physicians look like they don't deserve money. The next 2 years will be rough I am sure, the election will be another story all together. Hold in there. 

[rmorelan]

I voted yes, after much deliberation and being conflicted.

 

I can't help feeling that this will likely result in more public opinion turning against physicians, and more unilateral cuts, and we'll all just be worse off.  Not very hopeful over here.

 

No good answers here - there will be more unilateral cuts - and those will hurt. The main point I guess for me this will never end until we have some form of protection, and that will only come it seems from binding arbitration. The more the government just cuts things without our agreement the stronger our case is that we need it.

 

Until that is decided, and it better come out in favour or we are all in big trouble, we are just tap dancing. We have all known for 15-20 years this point was coming and both us as a profession and the multiple governments haven't really done anything about it. Now here we are - out of time, out of options.  

 

The blood is already on the floor on this one - one of the key OMA negotiators and a past OMA president as it happens just resigned. I am sure there will be more to follow. Part of why they were pushing so hard for this I think is well peoples' positions were at stake. No matter whether you were yes or no, there some very good people that are about to taken down.

[rmorelan]

Only time will tell. The Star, which already is anti-physician, published an article today with the first few paragraphs almost making it seem like COD were pretty money hungry for voting no, due a majority of them being part of highly grossing specialties. Already I see comments through social media with the same sentiment. I agree with ellorie, the government did a good number on making physicians look like they don't deserve money. The next 2 years will be rough I am sure, the election will be another story all together. Hold in there. 

 

ha - with a clear majority vote from a large fraction of the membership kind of puts that concern to rest. This wasn't a small fringe group - COD is merely the tip of the spear, and one of many loud voices against this.

[IMislove]

ha - with a clear majority vote from a large fraction of the membership kind of puts that concern to rest. This wasn't a small fringe group - COD is merely the tip of the spear, and one of many loud voices against this.

 

Hmm I should have rephrased myself, you are right. The binding arbitration is a big issue that many physicians want and won't accept an agreement without it. This whole situation is damaging to pretty much everyone: physicians, patients, the government. It's fun to think how the situation will be 10 years from now, and how the government/doctors go about not going through it again.