Q about CaRMS 2nd round programs

[Tonino]

Hi guys,

I'm interested in getting your thoughts about these laboratory medicine residencies:

1.       Anatomical Pathology: Memorial, McMaster, Manitoba 

2.       General Pathology: McMaster, Saskatchewan

3.       Hematological Pathology: Dalhousie (I was trying to find job postings for HP and I couldn't find many postings. I did read in other threads that the job market is good for HP, but are the job postings somewhere else other than the CAP or the OntarioPathologist.org?) 

4.       Medical Microbiology: Ottawa (both spots went unfilled and the story from Western's MM program was a bit alarming). 

 

Thank you!

[Intrepid86]

Based on the post you made before it was edited, your scores could make it difficult to get interviews at all. If you do get interviews, then your chances are no worse than others in your position, and then it would depend on how the interview itself goes. I have some thoughts about the programs themselves, and might post them later when I have more time.

[GrouchoMarx]

4 hours ago, Tonino said:

Hi guys,

I'm interested in getting your thoughts about these laboratory medicine residencies:

1.       Anatomical Pathology: Memorial, McMaster, Manitoba 

2.       General Pathology: McMaster, Saskatchewan

3.       Hematological Pathology: Dalhousie (I was trying to find job postings for HP and I couldn't find many postings. I did read in other threads that the job market is good for HP, but are the job postings somewhere else other than the CAP or the OntarioPathologist.org?) 

4.       Medical Microbiology: Ottawa (both spots went unfilled and the story from Western's MM program was a bit alarming). 

 

Thank you!

of those three id pic mcmaster only because it is close to toronto. personally i couldnt live in winnipeg or nfld for long.

dont do gp.

hp is  a good job market now. who knows in five years.

dont do med micro.

[NLengr]

St John's is an amazing city if you don't mind being in a place that's smaller. 

[Tonino]

7 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

of those three id pic mcmaster only because it is close to toronto. personally i couldnt live in winnipeg or nfld for long.

dont do gp.

hp is  a good job market now. who knows in five years.

dont do med micro.

Hi everyone,

I've heard from other people also that MM has poor job prospects since hospitals prefer to hire PhDs to do the same thing that MDs can do... is MM that redundant?

 

I heard for GP that the trend these days is to hire AP, but if you go private practice, there's still ample opportunities for GP?

Any particular news about uOttawa MM program?

Thank you!

[Trdz]

I'm also interested in more information about medical microbiology

[la marzocco]

23 hours ago, Tonino said:

Hi everyone,

I've heard from other people also that MM has poor job prospects since hospitals prefer to hire PhDs to do the same thing that MDs can do... is MM that redundant?

 

I heard for GP that the trend these days is to hire AP, but if you go private practice, there's still ample opportunities for GP?

Any particular news about uOttawa MM program?

Thank you!

 

3 hours ago, Trdz said:

I'm also interested in more information about medical microbiology

I will give my two cents here. Hospitals do hire PhDs, but they only work as "clinical microbiologists." PhDs in microbio normally enrol in a post-doc clinical microbio diploma program and then they get certified by the Canadian College of Microbiology. This was a way for the government to save money (I will explain how below). End of the day, there is a significant degree of overlap between clinical v. medical, but med micro definitely handles more complex cases. 

I have also heard that the med micro MD needs to sign off on all documents that are sent out to the requisiting physician despite the work having been completed by a clinical microbiologist - really, just formality. You basically just sanity check their work. But this cuts down time required of the MD. Think about it, a clinical microbiologist is paid around $150K, and a medical microbiologist $325K+. Which is why the post-doc clinical microbio diploma program is fully-funded by the ministries of health across the country. There are significant savings to be had.

Sidebar: this is partially why they have merged MM+ID in Quebec. MM and ID are pretty much the same thing. You really don't need a separate MM program when you have someone in IM who is a PGY3 subspecializing in ID. I think it is smart of Quebec to have merged MM and ID so that there are no redundancies. ID/MM are too similar to justify differentiating.

[yuanqi]

On 2018-03-04 at 4:07 PM, GrouchoMarx said:

of those three id pic mcmaster only because it is close to toronto. personally i couldnt live in winnipeg or nfld for long.

dont do gp.

hp is  a good job market now. who knows in five years.

dont do med micro.

Why is it a bad idea to pursue GP (I have heard about this from at least one other person)

[liszt]

3 hours ago, yuanqi said:

Why is it a bad idea to pursue GP (I have heard about this from at least one other person)

Depends who you ask, and where they're from. GP is  alive and well out west, but it sounds like not so much in Ontario (based on what Cain has said). I've even heard from recent AP trainees that, if they could go back, they would have done GP because of how marketable it is. 

[GrouchoMarx]

There is a lot of demand for GP in small centers out west. A few ontario centers like them too but its uncommon

the reason i dont recommend GP is because of its very bad RC pass rate. i dont think mcmaster, the available ontario program, has a good reputation in the GP pass rate department either which reflects either poor recruitment standards or insufficient education.

[GrouchoMarx]

On 3/4/2018 at 11:55 PM, Tonino said:

Hi everyone,

I've heard from other people also that MM has poor job prospects since hospitals prefer to hire PhDs to do the same thing that MDs can do... is MM that redundant?

 

I heard for GP that the trend these days is to hire AP, but if you go private practice, there's still ample opportunities for GP?

Any particular news about uOttawa MM program?

Thank you!

private practice generally does not exist in pathology

[Tonino]

11 minutes ago, GrouchoMarx said:

private practice generally does not exist in pathology

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought General Pathologists tend to work privately (working for private lab corporations), and bill the gov't per service, the same way that FM docs would bill fee per service?

[GrouchoMarx]

6 minutes ago, Tonino said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought General Pathologists tend to work privately (working for private lab corporations), and bill the gov't per service, the same way that FM docs would bill fee per service?

Incorrect.

GPs work for hospitals and run the "lab" stuff in addition to doing AP work because the small hospitals in little towns dont want to pay money to get a bunch of Phds to run the lab.

[liszt]

You can also find groups of GPs in larger centres who have a portion of their FTEs dedicated to medical oversight of smaller/rural sites.

[heydere]

Does anyone have any insight on the Dal hematopathology training program? What is the RC exam success rate like? What are the job prospects and renumeration like in Canada for hematopathologists? What kind of cities/sites do most hematopathologists end up working in?

[liszt]

6 hours ago, heydere said:

Does anyone have any insight on the Dal hematopathology training program? No recent direct experience with the program itself, but the recent grads I know are all terrific, wicked smart people, and highly competent hematopathologists.

What is the RC exam success rate like? Too few people take the exam to have those Royal College CMG stats on it. Based on anecdotal evidence only, I think that statistic would be very high... though it's a tough exam, programs across the country are quite supportive. 

What are the job prospects and renumeration like in Canada for hematopathologists? Job prospects for RC-HPs are good. Google some Canadian hematopathology job postings to get an idea of remuneration and variability across the country.

What kind of cities/sites do most hematopathologists end up working in? Most of us are in large cities. In general, we go where the bone marrows go, so the biggest demand will be in affiliation with tertiary/quaternary hospitals with large adult and/or pediatric hematology inpatient, consult, outpatient and BMT services.

Larger community hospitals without inpatient hematology services still commonly have HPs on site, but the practice might be more blood film/hemoglobinopathy/TM focused with a lower marrow volume. These are the types of sites found within the expanse of a metropolitan area, or in medium sized cities. The smallest city I can think of with an RC-HP on staff has a population of about 80,000. 

Replies in red above

[GrouchoMarx]

On 3/9/2018 at 1:01 PM, liszt said:

You can also find groups of GPs in larger centres who have a portion of their FTEs dedicated to medical oversight of smaller/rural sites.

indeed.

notice how it is not additional FTEs. Even if one wanted to sign out a full AP caseload in addition to medical oversight, some departments will not permit that.

also be aware that "Workload" aka volume of diagnostic work is not measured in a useful way in most institutions, so the portion of FTE assigned to medical oversight might not mean a reduction in diagnostic AP services.

these are the dangers of being a salaried employee or flat-fee doctor in a primarily volume oriented field. the suits will try to get every drop of work out of you, and then some more. they can do this because the admissions standards for pathology are so low that there is no danger of being without a pathologist for very long.

[heydere]

Does anyone have any insight on the UBC neuropathology training program? What is the RC exam success rate like? What are the job prospects and renumeration like in Canada for neuropathologists? What kind of cities/sites do most neuropathologists end up working in? What is life like as a neuropathologist?