Only Applying To Mcmaster? Should I Write The Cars Section Of The Mcat?

[MedMaybe]

Hi everyone. I've never been interested in medicine before, I've recently decided that I'm interested in psychiatry and would like to go into medicine. I know for sure that it is what I want to do after various conversations and shadowing's of psychiatrists. I am in my third year at UBC,  so I would be applying out of province. My GPA is 3.8. I'm doing a BA in psychology. I don't have any biology or chemistry. I know it's crazy, and I was honestly so surprised to find this out, but McMaster med doesn't require that, and only requires the verbal section/CARS section of the MCAT and CASper. I've received A's in my philosophy/biomedical ethics courses, and I've done CARS and CASPer practice tests and have done fairly well. Critical thinking/logic/ethics/cognitive science is definitely an area I do strongly in.  Should I apply to McMaster and only McMaster? I am trying to decide if I should take a shot. I've heard of people in my position who have gotten in. 

 

 

 

Also I don't have a whole lot of ec's/volunteer work. I have 1.5 years of volunteer experience or approximately 150 hours volunteering with a harm reduction clinic/outreach program. Does McMaster require a lot more ec's/volunteer work? 

 

Thanks for the advice. 

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

McMaster doesn't require volunteering/ECs at all.

 

You're in a tough position because as an out-of-province student you're fighting for 10 spots, and with a 3.8 you have a very difficult battle ahead.

 

If this is something you're set on then I'd say you wait a year, improve your extracurriculars, and study for ALL sections of the MCAT. Your best chance will always be at UBC so that should be your goal.

 

Have you considered other careers like clinical psychology? What specifically draws you to med school/psychiatry?

[MedMaybe]

McMaster doesn't require volunteering/ECs at all.

 

You're in a tough position because as an out-of-province student you're fighting for 10 spots, and with a 3.8 you have a very difficult battle ahead.

 

If this is something you're set on then I'd say you wait a year, improve your extracurriculars, and study for ALL sections of the MCAT. Your best chance will always be at UBC so that should be your goal.

 

Have you considered other careers like clinical psychology? What specifically draws you to med school/psychiatry?

 

 

 

My original plan was to get a PhD in clinical psych but I like a psychiatrists ability to treat with a broad scope of medications and therapies. As a clinical psychologist you're limited in how much you can help certain patients. I'd ideally like to be able to manage/treat patients long term. 

[PreMed2014]

McMaster reserves 90% of their seats for Ontario residents. Only 10 people from out of province get in. I believe a total of 50 interview invites are sent to people from out of province. So while not impossible, it's challenging. But I'd say go for it because you'll never know if you don't try.  If you don't get in you can always study for other sections of the MCAT and apply to other schools (UBC is your best chance by the way). If for some reason you aren't very chemistry/physics oriented like a lot of pre meds and you think those sections of the MCAT will give you difficulty, you could always consider doing your masters degree in Ontario ,and after 3 years, you will meet McMasters requirement for being an in province applicant, which may increase your chances.

 

Even though I also live in BC, McMaster is my first choice, even over UBC because I like the fact that their program is 3 years long (although with no Summer breaks) and their problem based learning style suits me well.

[PreMed2014]

Is a 3.8 really not competitive? I'm looking at the McMaster statistics and a lot of people with 3.8-3.89 GPA's have gotten in.

[patient2doctor]

^ A 3.8 is relatively competitive for an IP student, not OOP

[makingfetchhappen]

If you are good at that section, then go ahead and write it! The only downside is the money to take the test. I did the same and it was kind of fun. There are some Canadian schools that look at previous MCAT attempts (Calgary I think?), but Canada is such a small place when it comes to number of medical schools, I would be surprised if schools didn't understand that a decent CARS score combined with impossibly low scores on other sections was for the reason you are describing. If you think you may apply to the U.S. some day (which is a good back up), it's a different story, and the overall MCAT score might follow you around. 

If it's "get into med or die trying" for you, you might need to broaden your scope of schools eventually, but not necessarily right now. Just apply to Mac this cycle and make a new plan for next cycle! 

From what you are describing, it sounds like you may be able to follow your passion outside of medicine. Just my opinion, but I think that the inability to prescribe drugs would not make or break your ability to help people long term. Doctors in Canada have limitations on how much time they can spend counselling their patients, even in psych, where you would think it is most important. Maybe someone in psychatry can chime in, or maybe you have spoken to people in the field who could elaborate. That being said, I understand the appeal of the medical route to follow this interest. I think that particularly with more severe and in patient cases, it would be much more rewarding to be a psychiatrist than a psychologist. But with well functioning out-patients I would rather be a psychologist I think. 

These are all just my random opinions. But no matter what path you decide to be the best in the end, you will need a back up to medicine, or at least something to do in the meantime. If I were you, I would keep pursuing psychology, and even consider academia. I know the job market there is rough, but you could always complete graduate studies and go on to be a one-on-one psychologist counselling people. You would have your credentials in your back pocket and maybe take on teaching or research on the side, or eventually go into them. 

I also feel like a lot of the biggest studies in psychology in the past 10 years or so are coming out of universities in California. Am I correct? If so, that is a big plus too. Well, for me it would be, I hate the cold!

[MedMaybe]

If you are good at that section, then go ahead and write it! The only downside is the money to take the test. I did the same and it was kind of fun. There are some Canadian schools that look at previous MCAT attempts (Calgary I think?), but Canada is such a small place when it comes to number of medical schools, I would be surprised if schools didn't understand that a decent CARS score combined with impossibly low scores on other sections was for the reason you are describing. If you think you may apply to the U.S. some day (which is a good back up), it's a different story, and the overall MCAT score might follow you around. 

 

If it's "get into med or die trying" for you, you might need to broaden your scope of schools eventually, but not necessarily right now. Just apply to Mac this cycle and make a new plan for next cycle! 

 

From what you are describing, it sounds like you may be able to follow your passion outside of medicine. Just my opinion, but I think that the inability to prescribe drugs would not make or break your ability to help people long term. Doctors in Canada have limitations on how much time they can spend counselling their patients, even in psych, where you would think it is most important. Maybe someone in psychatry can chime in, or maybe you have spoken to people in the field who could elaborate. That being said, I understand the appeal of the medical route to follow this interest. I think that particularly with more severe and in patient cases, it would be much more rewarding to be a psychiatrist than a psychologist. But with well functioning out-patients I would rather be a psychologist I think. 

 

These are all just my random opinions. But no matter what path you decide to be the best in the end, you will need a back up to medicine, or at least something to do in the meantime. If I were you, I would keep pursuing psychology, and even consider academia. I know the job market there is rough, but you could always complete graduate studies and go on to be a one-on-one psychologist counselling people. You would have your credentials in your back pocket and maybe take on teaching or research on the side, or eventually go into them. 

 

I also feel like a lot of the biggest studies in psychology in the past 10 years or so are coming out of universities in California. Am I correct? If so, that is a big plus too. Well, for me it would be, I hate the cold!

 

 

Thank you. I think you're right. I will apply this cycle if I still can and if I don't get in, I'll take some science prereqs and broaden my scope of schools. A PhD in clinical psychology is my backup. It was my original career choice but now it's my second option. I'd really like to get into psychiatry now that I've actually explored the field a fair bit. 

 

As for the biggest studies coming out of California for the past 10 years, I'm not entirely sure. Though it wouldn't surprise me. But I prefer the cold so staying in Canada would be ideal for me haha. 

[makingfetchhappen]

Thank you. I think you're right. I will apply this cycle if I still can and if I don't get in, I'll take some science prereqs and broaden my scope of schools. A PhD in clinical psychology is my backup. It was my original career choice but now it's my second option. I'd really like to get into psychiatry now that I've actually explored the field a fair bit. 

 

As for the biggest studies coming out of California for the past 10 years, I'm not entirely sure. Though it wouldn't surprise me. But I prefer the cold so staying in Canada would be ideal for me haha. 

And thank you for telling me that you think I am right! Being right is my favourite! 

 

Oh and also I feel the need to offer a bit of random unsolicited advice . If continuing in psychology for graduate studies is your back up, you will need to decide who you will share your med ambitions with/how much to share. On the one hand, you will need reference letters for med. On the other, people might be less inclined to provide opportunities to you in your field if they know that you are not in it for the long term. I don't know what the right approach is there, but it is something to keep in mind. 

[MedMaybe]

And thank you for telling me that you think I am right! Being right is my favourite! 

 

Oh and also I feel the need to offer a bit of random unsolicited advice . If continuing in psychology for graduate studies is your back up, you will need to decide who you will share your med ambitions with/how much to share. On the one hand, you will need reference letters for med. On the other, people might be less inclined to provide opportunities to you in your field if they know that you are not in it for the long term. I don't know what the right approach is there, but it is something to keep in mind. 

 

Thank you for the tip!

[not my real name]

^ A 3.8 is relatively competitive for an IP student, not OOP

This is not necessarily true. I was wait listed for an interview with a 3.45 / 13V in 2012-2013 and received an interview with a 3.55 / 13V this past cycle. OOP. Strong CASPER plus CARS will certainly compensate for lower cGPA.

 

Also, I always thought that Mac only had provincial quotas for the interview, not the end decisions... Meaning, your final score is compared to all applicants. I could be wrong, just wanted to clarify.

[MedMaybe]

This is not necessarily true. I was wait listed for an interview with a 3.45 / 13V in 2012-2013 and received an interview with a 3.55 / 13V this past cycle. OOP. Strong CASPER plus CARS will certainly compensate for lower cGPA.

 

Also, I always thought that Mac only had provincial quotas for the interview, not the end decisions... Meaning, your final score is compared to all applicants. I could be wrong, just wanted to clarify.

 

 

Well, this is very interesting indeed. Gives me even more hope. Thank you. 

[StriveP]

Hi everyone. I've never been interested in medicine before, I've recently decided that I'm interested in psychiatry and would like to go into medicine. I know for sure that it is what I want to do after various conversations and shadowing's of psychiatrists. I am in my third year at UBC,  so I would be applying out of province. My GPA is 3.8. I'm doing a BA in psychology. I don't have any biology or chemistry. I know it's crazy, and I was honestly so surprised to find this out, but McMaster med doesn't require that, and only requires the verbal section/CARS section of the MCAT and CASper. I've received A's in my philosophy/biomedical ethics courses, and I've done CARS and CASPer practice tests and have done fairly well. Critical thinking/logic/ethics/cognitive science is definitely an area I do strongly in.  Should I apply to McMaster and only McMaster? I am trying to decide if I should take a shot. I've heard of people in my position who have gotten in. 

 

 

 

Also I don't have a whole lot of ec's/volunteer work. I have 1.5 years of volunteer experience or approximately 150 hours volunteering with a harm reduction clinic/outreach program. Does McMaster require a lot more ec's/volunteer work? 

 

Thanks for the advice. 

 

You have a 10x higher chance of getting into UBC than Mcmaster. 

You would be crazy not to apply to UBC! Yes Mcmaster is 3 years but trust me, your chances of getting in are probably udner 1% since over 5000 applicants apply each year

[rmorelan]

Well, this is very interesting indeed. Gives me even more hope. Thank you. 

 

Mac reserves 10% for out of province - that is more than 10 spots, as mac has over 200 positions.

 

so you can try of course - it will cost time and money but a shot is a shot and you usually don't get as far by declining to take risks ha !

 

for future applications it is worth expanding the scope of things with the MCAT. Compute your wGPA for TO for instance, and start seeing what it is for other schools as well (last 2 years, best 2 years, Ottawa's wGPA - another non MCAT school.....) Look at ALL the angles

[Birdy]

You have a 10x higher chance of getting into UBC than Mcmaster. 

You would be crazy not to apply to UBC! Yes Mcmaster is 3 years but trust me, your chances of getting in are probably udner 1% since over 5000 applicants apply each year

 

Yes, 5000-ish applicants applied last year (I believe it was the first year the applications topped that) but it's not a lottery - your chances are better or worse relative to other applicants, but because of CASPER it's hard to say ahead of time exactly where someone is in that big pool because it counts for just as much as the other application aspects. Plus, it's hard to know how you'll manage with CASPER. Hell, I'm a student at Mac now and I still have no idea how I did - my GPA and VR were both high enough I would have been able to offset a mediocre performance on CASPER so the fact that I got an interview just tells me I didn't completely screw it up. 

 

OP, It doesn't hurt to apply, write CASPER, and see how you do. You can't really know if you'll be able to get an interview at Mac until you actually try to get an interview at Mac. I think that's why so many apply, because a very important part of the eligibility happens after applications, unlike with other schools. 

 

Agreed it couldn't hurt to apply to UBC. Having more options is never a bad thing. 

[MedMaybe]

Yes, 5000-ish applicants applied last year (I believe it was the first year the applications topped that) but it's not a lottery - your chances are better or worse relative to other applicants, but because of CASPER it's hard to say ahead of time exactly where someone is in that big pool because it counts for just as much as the other application aspects. Plus, it's hard to know how you'll manage with CASPER. Hell, I'm a student at Mac now and I still have no idea how I did - my GPA and VR were both high enough I would have been able to offset a mediocre performance on CASPER so the fact that I got an interview just tells me I didn't completely screw it up. 

 

OP, It doesn't hurt to apply, write CASPER, and see how you do. You can't really know if you'll be able to get an interview at Mac until you actually try to get an interview at Mac. I think that's why so many apply, because a very important part of the eligibility happens after applications, unlike with other schools. 

 

Agreed it couldn't hurt to apply to UBC. Having more options is never a bad thing. 

 

 

Thanks for the encouraging post.

[mdforme]

Newbie here, just wondering if anyone has done the MCAT recently for just the CARS?

Can you literally write ONLY the CARS section?  Or do you have to BS your way through the rest if you haven't done the other pre-reqs yet?

Any insight would be lovely.

Thanks!

[DrOtter]

Your chances will really depend on CASPer for sure. I applied two cycles back as an OOP with a 3.94 cGPA and a 128 CARS and still didn't get an interview and I was hoping CASPer was my weak point at the time. But ECs are irrelevant for McMaster (I don't think they even consider the LORs besides looking for any potential redflags).

What kinds of scores have you been getting for CARS practice?

[MedicineLCS]

You can choose to end any MCAT section at any time, after starting it. Theoretically you would be able to finish the whole exam (if you only did CARS) in 90 minutes+setup/end time. IF you did choose to write only for CARS I would actually recommend blanking the other sections, so as not to distract yourself, and so that it's plainly obvious that you did write only for CARS. E.g. 118/128/118/118 looks like a CARS only write, while 123/128/124/126 looks like someone struggled, but who knows if anyone would actually look into the distribution the way I'm thinking. 

 

[mdforme]

thanks @MedicineLCS for the tips, much appreciated

[mdforme]

just wondering if anyone else has any ideas as far as blanking for McMaster CARS write vs. writing all sections (as you do have more than a zero chance with it all being multiple choice...) ?

If you write all sections, before being fully prepared for all sections, and get low in sections other than CARS, does this look bad to other schools if you do a full rewrite and do well in all sections later?

[bearded frog]

Canadian schools won't care, but if you ever think you might apply to the US, some american schools take all MCATs into account and average them, etc.