6-year, part-time student: What schools am I eligible for?

[thefrogjumpstuesday]

Updated July 15th:

This post is provide succinct information for those in similar shoes (5+ year degree, low cGPA) who are consider medical schools in Canada. I made this post because there is a lack of information for people with my stats who are interested in if they can apply for schools without completing a second undergraduate degree.

Quote

 

My stats:

Course load: Part-time over 6 years

cGPA: < 3.3

Last 2-years (20 or 60 credits): 3.8

Undergrad: No hard science courses

 

If you have similar stats to me, you are not eligible to apply to schools that require high cGPAs, full course loads, or science pre-reqs. However, you are eligible to apply for (depending on your residency status) the following schools: Queens, McMaster, Memorial, NOSM, and UBC. Keep in mind that although you may be technical permissible to apply to these schools, however, some will look only at your cGPA (e.g., McMaster and possibly Mem. and NOSM), whereas others look at wGPA or aGPA calculations.

[offmychestplease]

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[JohnGrisham]

53 minutes ago, thefrogjumpstuesday said:

I think my research (2 years, no pubs) / EC (no shadowing, no school clubs, suicide hotline for 1 year, random day volunteer gigs) will remain average, but I will likely score >90 percentile on all areas of the MCAT.

Your non-academics sounds much below average, unless you are just not including it all here.  

As for scoring >90 percentile on all areas of the MCAT - i hope that is true! But actually take it first to not count your chickens before they hatch

You have a long road ahead, but anything is possible with careful planning.

[thefrogjumpstuesday]

53 minutes ago, offmychestplease said:

For the schools you said you were eligible for:

0 chance at UBC, don't meet the min OOP 85%+ needed,

0 chance at Queens, don't have 2 full time/best years at 3.75+

basically 0 chance at Mac, even if you got 132 CARS and killed casper with your cGPA

0 chance for Manitoba, OOP GPA interview cutoff was like 3.8+ converted from their scale

 

You NEED to do another degree, full-time, kill that to have a chance anywhere

Thanks for the info on Manitoba. Is this accurate?

UBC - I am a BC resident; AGPA is 75% for us

Queens -  Am I technically permissible to apply? Other med schools have a matriculated class with a 2-5% demographic for my cGPA bracket

Mac - Am I technically permissible to apply? Same as above

Manitoba - Seems I am not technically eligible

33 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

Your non-academics sounds much below average, unless you are just not including it all here.  

As for scoring >90 percentile on all areas of the MCAT - i hope that is true! But actually take it first to not count your chickens before they hatch

You have a long road ahead, but anything is possible with careful planning.

What is a strong example of ECs?

To add to the eligibility list:

Am I correct in that I am eligible for NOMS and Memorial?

[MedicineLCS]

You can apply, I'm sure the schools appreciate your donation of an application fee, but you won't get anywhere. Being able to technically apply doesn't mean that they won't throw out your application for not meeting cutoffs. You need more, full-time, good grades. Queens might be the exception here since they're a black box and are potentially not as aggressive with cutoffs. If you're a BC resident you would be best to target UBC (your IP school) and the two year wGPA schools in Ontario (Western/Queens) with improved grades. Don't bother applying to provincial schools other than UBC. 

As far as ECs, here are some suggestions:

Gold Medal Winning Olympic Athlete and Team Captain (Canadian)

Become a Special Operations Solider, then EMT, and then Reenlist as a Special Operations Physicians Assistant and Officer (American)

Work Your Way to the Top of a Major Multinational as CEO (Canadian)

Jokes aside, those are unicorn examples of great ECs. There are no set "Great ECs", but you should, at a minimum, demonstrate a commitment to serving others, your community, some leadership potential, and an ability to work with others. Research does not show schools that you're going to be a good clinician, which is something they want to see some potential in. 

[thefrogjumpstuesday]

1 hour ago, MedicineLCS said:

You can apply, I'm sure the schools appreciate your donation of an application fee, but you won't get anywhere. Being able to technically apply doesn't mean that they won't throw out your application for not meeting cutoffs. You need more, full-time, good grades. Queens might be the exception here since they're a black box and are potentially not as aggressive with cutoffs. If you're a BC resident you would be best to target UBC (your IP school) and the two year wGPA schools in Ontario (Western/Queens) with improved grades. Don't bother applying to provincial schools other than UBC. 

As far as ECs, here are some suggestions:

Gold Medal Winning Olympic Athlete and Team Captain (Canadian)

Become a Special Operations Solider, then EMT, and then Reenlist as a Special Operations Physicians Assistant and Officer (American)

Work Your Way to the Top of a Major Multinational as CEO (Canadian)

Jokes aside, those are unicorn examples of great ECs. There are no set "Great ECs", but you should, at a minimum, demonstrate a commitment to serving others, your community, some leadership potential, and an ability to work with others. Research does not show schools that you're going to be a good clinician, which is something they want to see some potential in. 

Can I count my past application 'donations' as contributing the community?

[IloveMemes]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:12 AM, MedicineLCS said:

You can apply, I'm sure the schools appreciate your donation of an application fee, but you won't get anywhere. Being able to technically apply doesn't mean that they won't throw out your application for not meeting cutoffs. You need more, full-time, good grades. Queens might be the exception here since they're a black box and are potentially not as aggressive with cutoffs. If you're a BC resident you would be best to target UBC (your IP school) and the two year wGPA schools in Ontario (Western/Queens) with improved grades. Don't bother applying to provincial schools other than UBC. 

As far as ECs, here are some suggestions:

Gold Medal Winning Olympic Athlete and Team Captain (Canadian)

Become a Special Operations Solider, then EMT, and then Reenlist as a Special Operations Physicians Assistant and Officer (American)

Work Your Way to the Top of a Major Multinational as CEO (Canadian)

Jokes aside, those are unicorn examples of great ECs. There are no set "Great ECs", but you should, at a minimum, demonstrate a commitment to serving others, your community, some leadership potential, and an ability to work with others. Research does not show schools that you're going to be a good clinician, which is something they want to see some potential in. 

Reminds me of Johny Kim, the Korean American. Trained as a  Navy Seals,  deployed multilple times to Iraq War, went to Harvard Medical school, and then became an astronaut. Absolute fucking mad man. These people are made of metal or smth. 

[thefrogjumpstuesday]

Just want to update this post after doing some research (Since it was difficult for me to find past posts like these on student doctor, **DELETED**, etc.,):

You do not need an amazing GPA or full course load to get in. For those in a similar situation to myself, the following schools seem to be viable: Queens, UBC, McMaster, Memorial, DAL, and NOMS. I recommend you see for yourself stats on their MD admissions page OR check the accepted/rejected/waitlist threads found in every dedicated forum for each school.

For your convenience, here are two statistic pages offered by the schools I listed above:

McMaster stats: https://mdprogram.mcmaster.ca/md-program-admissions/how-we-select

UBC stats: https://mdprogram.med.ubc.ca/admissions/admissions-statistics/

No doubt GPA is king and plays an influence, but it does not completely cripple you from your dreams.

 

 

 

 

 

[Maggiie19]

7 hours ago, thefrogjumpstuesday said:

Just want to update this post after doing some research (Since it was difficult for me to find past posts like these on student doctor, **DELETED**, etc.,):

You do not need an amazing GPA or full course load to get in. For those in a similar situation to myself, the following schools seem to be viable: Queens, UBC, McMaster, Memorial, DAL, and NOMS. I recommend you see for yourself stats on their MD admissions page OR check the accepted/rejected/waitlist threads found in every dedicated forum for each school.

For your convenience, here are two statistic pages offered by the schools I listed above:

McMaster stats: https://mdprogram.mcmaster.ca/md-program-admissions/how-we-select

UBC stats: https://mdprogram.med.ubc.ca/admissions/admissions-statistics/

No doubt GPA is king and plays an influence, but it does not completely cripple you from your dreams.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, there are some people who manage to get in with a low GPA, I'll give you that. However, in your case, you can basically count out McMaster, NOSM, Dalhousie and Memorial from your list because of your geographical status. I think your best bet would be BC since you are IP, but you would need to work on your ECs.

 

Btw, for Dal ....

Residents of all other Canadian provinces and territories  

Minimum of 3.7 on a 4.0 scale in each year assessed.

• The minimum GPA requirement must be met in EACH year (with 30 credit hours) being assessed to be considered for admission.

 

So yes, you do need a full course load for Dal.

[Snowmen]

Except the people who get in with a really low GPA have unicorn ECs like the ones mentioned above, which you definitely don't.

I don't mean to be rude, but people need to be realistic at some point. You have neither a good GPA or good ECs from what I could gather from this thread. You need to work on improving those instead of scouring the internet to find a loophole to apply.

[thefrogjumpstuesday]

14 hours ago, Maggiie19 said:

Sure, there are some people who manage to get in with a low GPA, I'll give you that. However, in your case, you can basically count out McMaster, NOSM, Dalhousie and Memorial from your list because of your geographical status. I think your best bet would be BC since you are IP, but you would need to work on your ECs.

 

Btw, for Dal ....

Residents of all other Canadian provinces and territories  

Minimum of 3.7 on a 4.0 scale in each year assessed.

• The minimum GPA requirement must be met in EACH year (with 30 credit hours) being assessed to be considered for admission.

 

So yes, you do need a full course load for Dal.

It appears you're right about Dal. I am eligible for IP for both Ontario and BC.

13 hours ago, Snowmen said:

Except the people who get in with a really low GPA have unicorn ECs like the ones mentioned above, which you definitely don't.

I don't mean to be rude, but people need to be realistic at some point. You have neither a good GPA or good ECs from what I could gather from this thread. You need to work on improving those instead of scouring the internet to find a loophole to apply.

Ah, I'm a noob on premed, so I'm not really used to all this cynicism yet. You and others can see it as finding a loophole, frustrated that "those who didn't work as hard" are trying to get through the same golden gates... whereas others may see it as a shimmer of hope given unfortunate circumstance that affected their undergraduate performance. Bon chance

The point I was trying to make in this thread still stands: you stand a chance with a decent gpa, provided ECs and MCATs strengthen out the rest.

If you're like me in the 80-85% (or 3.8~3.85 bracket), know that the schools I listed have about ~25% matriculated students that have that GPA or less.

[offmychestplease]

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[youbesee]

For the record, while UBC doesn't officially require a full course load, their website does mention that they need to see evidence that you can handle the rigor of full time study. You might be asked to explain your part time terms.

[thefrogjumpstuesday]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:18 AM, offmychestplease said:

No one here is trying to put you down. If anything, the above posters are trying for you to see reality so you don't build up false hope. They are trying to help. You need to do another degree to have hope in Canada.

After your search you mentioned the following schools:

Queen's - you do not have 2 full-time years 3.80+, therefore your chances are 0 here

McMaster - even if you get a perfect 100th percentile CARS score, your chances are basically 0 with a 3.1cGPA

Memorial - you do not meet the min GPA for OOP, so 0 chances here

Dal- you do not meet the min GPA for OOP, so 0 chances here

NOSM - you are not from Northern Ontario/remote Canada, so 0 chances here and even if you were your GPA prohibits you

As for UBC, you are correct that the min GPA to APPLY is 75%, and if you finished a degree they drop 30 credits, but even with the drop they are not going to forget the multiple sub-par years you have and so your aGPA will be below 80%. And just like the others said, without A LOT of luck, INSANE EC's, and multiple application attempts no one is getting into UBC below 80%

good luck

oh boy your dense, please re-read what i said and check admission stats. you are spreading misinformation about matriculation chances and full-time. admission statistics speak for themselves if pools ~25% matriculated have below the mentioned gpa bracket. i know you prob have this internalized "A+ or nothing" mentality your parent drilled in your head but that's not the reality. please be factual

for example, here is some proof why you are wrong and misinforming everyone. here is why you are wrong: 

queens -> does NOT need fulltime https://meds.queensu.ca/academics/undergraduate/prospective-students/frequently-asked-questions - FAQ #3

McMaster -> still viable

Memorial -> does not have a min GPA requirement https://www.med.mun.ca/getdoc/8d3fdfc3-5293-47e8-988f-cabf6e899f07/Academics-MCAT.aspx

Dal -> already corrected this in prior post

NOSM -> still viable

ubc -> i already said which bracket i am in the last post with agpa nd theres ~30% matriculation for that bracket https://mdprogram.med.ubc.ca/admissions/admissions-statistics/

i mentioned the schools as viability, not to say "you can get in with equal chances". if you want to interpret it as i am being overly optimistic, be my guest, but i made it clear earlier the point of my post

 

also, one quick glance at your post history shows how cynical you are as a person, so you're not fooling anybody by claiming benevolence, but i suppose its my fault too for feeding the troll

[youbesee]

33 minutes ago, thefrogjumpstuesday said:

oh boy your dense, please re-read what i said and check admission stats. you are spreading misinformation about matriculation chances and full-time. admission statistics speak for themselves if pools ~25% matriculated have below the mentioned gpa bracket. i know you prob have this internalized "A+ or nothing" mentality your parent drilled in your head but that's not the reality. please be factual

for example, here is some proof why you are wrong and misinforming everyone. here is why you are wrong: 

queens -> does NOT need fulltime https://meds.queensu.ca/academics/undergraduate/prospective-students/frequently-asked-questions - FAQ #3

McMaster -> still viable

Memorial -> does not have a min GPA requirement https://www.med.mun.ca/getdoc/8d3fdfc3-5293-47e8-988f-cabf6e899f07/Academics-MCAT.aspx

Dal -> already corrected this in prior post

NOSM -> still viable

ubc -> i already said which bracket i am in the last post with agpa nd theres ~30% matriculation for that bracket https://mdprogram.med.ubc.ca/admissions/admissions-statistics/

i mentioned the schools as viability, not to say "you can get in with equal chances". if you want to interpret it as i am being overly optimistic, be my guest, but i made it clear earlier the point of my post

 

also, one quick glance at your post history shows how cynical you are as a person, so you're not fooling anybody by claiming benevolence, but i suppose its my fault too for feeding the troll

Hey, I know it can seem like the posters above are just trying to rain on your parade for the fun of it, but there is truth in what they are saying. I think it all depends on how you define "viable".

You are correct that you are *eligible* to apply to those schools. If that is what you mean by viable, then fair enough. The main point being made above is that despite being eligible to apply (in other words your application will not be thrown out immediately), you are facing an extremely uphill battle and your chances are very slim. If slim is good enough to apply, then all the power to you.

If you had to apply, UBC is good because it can put your application in perspective of the applicant pool. However I would agree that for McMaster, your chances are effectively 0 because they will use your cGPA which is very low. Likewise, it is well known that NOSM effectively only accepts applicants with rural experience. If you do not have such experience, it is not worth applying IMO.

Also, no one here is attacking you, so try to be less antagonistic.

[offmychestplease]

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[Zacky]

I think the reason why you’re getting quite a bit of blunt and harsh feedback is because it seems like there is lack of understanding of how competitive med admission really is. You’ve said it yourself that you’re more a noobie when it comes to premed stuff. Many of the users here, including myself, have browsed this forum for years prior to receiving admission. With that much exposure, you get a pretty good sense of what is considered competitive and what is considered not. And we are just referring to competitiveness in receiving a single interview.
 

I have applied multiple times prior to being admitted. The first time I applied, I didn’t get any interviews. At that time, I thought I had a pretty good chance (3.9+ GPA, 515+ MCAT, half a dozen research experiences, shadowing, volunteering in a few different organizations, awards, etc). No luck. And for many in my friend circle, there were at least a dozen who had stellar stats and kept busy with unique ECs, but they had to apply multiple cycles (2-3 at least) to even get any interviews. Keep in mind that these people have above average stats and ECS and that this is even after applying to all the schools in Ontario. And if we look at the numbers, this makes sense because on average each school receives around ~4000 applications each year and they interview only around 10% of those applications, so around 400 people. Of course we don’t hear much about the other 90% who don’t receive interviews on this forum because it’s pretty devastating to have your admission journey cut short early on.

In the end, if you don’t apply, then your chances are a guaranteed zero. So I think you should definitely apply because you should give yourself that chance, and you never know. However, I wrote this to provide a bit more information on the competition you will face: which will be at least a few thousand applicants with stats that are likely higher than yours, especially for Mac’s cGPA. Perhaps your ECs are more extensive and diverse than you’ve described them to be here. In which case, the OMSAS portal has just recently opened and there are 32 entries available to fill. Myself and some others opted to fill all of them, although that’s not required (quality over quantity). However I do think you should fill as many as possible in order to stand out to adcom and to paint a clearer picture of your life experiences suitable for medicine. 

Best of luck!