Sherbrooke MD French only?

[Hannahh]

Hi 

Can anyone confirm that Sherbrooke MD program is French only?

I know nothing about the French language, so I do not meet their admission requirement? Any other French-only MD schools in Canada that I am not qualified to apply to?

 

Thank you very much

 

[MDee2B]

1 hour ago, Hannahh said:

Hi 

Can anyone confirm that Sherbrooke MD program is French only?

I know nothing about the French language, so I do not meet their admission requirement? Any other French-only MD schools in Canada that I am not qualified to apply to?

 

Thank you very much

 

Sherbrooke is French only, yes.

You have to prove French language proficiency to be admissible to Sherbrooke, Laval, and University of Montreal.

[Hannahh]

13 hours ago, MDee2B said:

Sherbrooke is French only, yes.

You have to prove French language proficiency to be admissible to Sherbrooke, Laval, and University of Montreal.

Thanks

I will not apply to these 3. 

[Snowmen]

2 hours ago, Hannahh said:

Thanks

I will not apply to these 3. 

You'll also have a hard time during clerkship at McGill if you don't speak french.

[Hannahh]

40 minutes ago, Snowmen said:

You'll also have a hard time during clerkship at McGill if you don't speak french.

that's too far to think about......

I only start to think about what MD schools I will apply..

[PirouetteCacahuete]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:19 PM, Hannahh said:

that's too far to think about......

I only start to think about what MD schools I will apply..

It’s not necessarily too far out. If you want to set yourself up for success, that’s something you need to think about now before you dump money on an application. You can’t change your mind once you’re in your clerkship so make sure that’s something you are comfortable with.

[Snowmen]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:19 PM, Hannahh said:

that's too far to think about......

I only start to think about what MD schools I will apply..

Let me rephrase it then.

You will be unable to complete certain rotations during clerkship because McGill's teaching hospitals provide subspecialized care to the Montreal population, anglophone or francophone. If you can't speak to your patients, you can't treat them. If you can't treat them, you fail your rotations. If you fail your rotations, you end up without a job.

Now, it obviously is for you to decide where you will apply.

[la marzocco]

48 minutes ago, Snowmen said:

Let me rephrase it then.

You will be unable to complete certain rotations during clerkship because McGill's teaching hospitals provide subspecialized care to the Montreal population, anglophone or francophone. If you can't speak to your patients, you can't treat them. If you can't treat them, you fail your rotations. If you fail your rotations, you end up without a job.

Now, it obviously is for you to decide where you will apply.

 

On 4/4/2022 at 1:15 AM, Hannahh said:

Hi 

Can anyone confirm that Sherbrooke MD program is French only?

I know nothing about the French language, so I do not meet their admission requirement? Any other French-only MD schools in Canada that I am not qualified to apply to?

 

Thank you very much

 

McGill is starting to require French language proficiency as well. Although not to the same standard as the three francophone universities. 

https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/requirements/general-requirements/language

"French Language Proficiency

As of fall 2023 French-language proficiency is a pre-admission requirement for students starting the MDCM Program or Med-P qualifying year. This change is consistent with French- language proficiency pre-admission requirements of other health profession schools in the Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences and with the Faculty’s Statement on Language Proficiency

“To provide essential services and safe care to all patients within a Quebec-based healthcare setting, students must achieve an appropriate level of French before entering their respective health profession program’s clinical affiliations where they integrate their knowledge, skills and attitudes. This will ensure all students have every opportunity to maximize their learning with all patients, families and fellow health care workers they meet during their studies at McGill University’’.

Fall 2023

French-language minimum requirements:

• B2 (mid-intermediate) for Montreal Campus
• C1 (advanced) for Campus Outaouais (where the language of instruction for all courses is French)"

[indefatigable]

15 hours ago, Snowmen said:

Let me rephrase it then.

You will be unable to complete certain rotations during clerkship because McGill's teaching hospitals provide subspecialized care to the Montreal population, anglophone or francophone. If you can't speak to your patients, you can't treat them. If you can't treat them, you fail your rotations. If you fail your rotations, you end up without a job.

Language is very delicate subject in QC, but up till now this hasn't been strictly true at McGill.  Translators/interpreters were apparently provided in cases where trainee or provider couldn't communicate with the patient - even if only in French.  Students without French skills were apparently to some degree given accommodation - so unilingual anglophones would sometimes graduate (and match) fine (this is less true at the resident level).  

14 hours ago, la marzocco said:

McGill is starting to require French language proficiency as well. Although not to the same standard as the three francophone universities. 

https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/requirements/general-requirements/language

A good move for both practical reasons and for optics within QC.  Communicating with patients requires some knowledge of French, but not to the same degree as charting, learning, reviewing, in French etc..  - so it makes sense that there wouldn't be as high as a standard (Outaouais is higher than Montreal though).

 Although, I think CASPer in French is a better gauge of French preparation vs TFI (which is much simpler than the corresponding IELTS-Academic).

[Snowmen]

3 hours ago, indefatigable said:

Language is very delicate subject in QC, but up till now this hasn't been strictly true at McGill.  Translators/interpreters were apparently provided in cases where trainee or provider couldn't communicate with the patient - even if only in French.  Students without French skills were apparently to some degree given accommodation - so unilingual anglophones would sometimes graduate (and match) fine (this is less true at the resident level).

The bolded line is ridiculous if true. It has nothing to do with nationalism or whatnot. Medical encounters with a translator are always a mess and lead to tons of misunderstanding, even in the best of cases. If a physician can't speak french, they shouldn't practice in Montreal, that's all there is to it. If McGill decided that giving medical students translators was a smart thing to do, I don't know what to say...

[indefatigable]

2 hours ago, Snowmen said:

The bolded line is ridiculous if true. It has nothing to do with nationalism or whatnot. Medical encounters with a translator are always a mess and lead to tons of misunderstanding, even in the best of cases. If a physician can't speak french, they shouldn't practice in Montreal, that's all there is to it. If McGill decided that giving medical students translators was a smart thing to do, I don't know what to say...

Obviously, none of this should be an issue going forward - but there are couple of things here that can be disentangled.  

At the practicing physician level, French is a college requirement to get licensed anywhere within Montreal and Quebec.  But, physicians from outside QC don't always show up with perfect French and I think the idea was probably to provide support while the practitioner improves their French to meet the QC standard.  From a HR point of view, this makes sense.  From what I know, the new French test is much more reasonable - the old one was notoriously bad.    

I believe the same idea was applied at the med student level - some students may have been OOP, without a lot of French, and some may have benefitted from IP due to being born in QC (even if raised somewhere else) and thus not speak a lot French.  Regardless, this policy clearly is an attempt to avoid these types of situations.   

 I also find that there's a lot more actual bilingualism in Montreal (vs rest of Quebec) meaning many francophones would probably be able to speak English if needed (not that this should be an expectation though).  

Regardless, interpreters are sometimes necessary - there are a lot of different languages in Montreal in particular. 

I always find surprising in the endless language debates in QC in particular that little attention is paid to the Indigeneous communities that are really the "true" language of the North American continent (and close to extinction).  

I also find that painting broad strokes of English vs French etc really distorts the historical complexity of very different "English speakers" from England vs Ireland vs Scotland historically and now "allophones".. partly based on their own religious/cultural even linguistic identities, and socioeconomic realities..  The role of Catholic church in QC which had an enormous influence on education (including linguistic outcomes for immigrants) is also lost in the language polarization debates.

[Snowmen]

2 hours ago, indefatigable said:

I also find that painting broad strokes of English vs French etc really distorts the historical complexity of very different "English speakers" from England vs Ireland vs Scotland historically and now "allophones".. partly based on their own religious/cultural even linguistic identities, and socioeconomic realities..  The role of Catholic church in QC which had an enormous influence on education (including linguistic outcomes for immigrants) is also lost in the language polarization debates.

There's no debate about english vs french. There's a debate about understanding what your subspecialist is telling you, which is already confusing, vs understanding jack shit.

Also, big difference between "bilingual" Montrealers being about to function in english at the "giving directions to a tourist level" vs "receiving life-changing information from the doctor that I need to take into account to make a decision that might lead to my death if I take the wrong one level".

[indefatigable]

1 hour ago, Snowmen said:

There's no debate about english vs french. There's a debate about understanding what your subspecialist is telling you, which is already confusing, vs understanding jack shit.

Also, big difference between "bilingual" Montrealers being about to function in english at the "giving directions to a tourist level" vs "receiving life-changing information from the doctor that I need to take into account to make a decision that might lead to my death if I take the wrong one level".

I agree that communicating in the language of the patient is important.  I also agree that the ability to speak French is a reasonable expectation for a provider in Quebec.  Unfortunately, these ideals are not always attained.

While the CMQ requires French proficiency to obtain a permanent license (see below), I did see some staff who were not comfortable/didn't communicate in French (the CMQ allows a temporary period to improve French).  The French-speaking patients in those clinics in Montreal did seem very good at English (and I never saw a case in Montreal where a francophone struggled with English - I was always ready to step in), but, as I mentioned above, I also agree that this shouldn't be an expectation.  Outside of downtown Montreal, the comfort level with English can decrease significantly.  

Although most francophone staff I met seemed to want to also provide care in English as necessary, some, even with capacity and/or training in English, didn't and some couldn't - I do remember helping out on at least one occasion.   Many adult, landed, immigrants have stronger English than French skills.  I think immigrants generally struggle much more with the language barriers that they face.

http://www.cmq.org/page/en/permis-exercice-regulier-reconnaissance-equivalence-md.aspx