rmorelan Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 you can I know some dentists that do. Not every dentist does but its totally possible. You wont be making that kind of money right out of school obviously but once your practise is set up and riunning after many years its totally possible. This is the problem with these sorts of threads - and they have been cropping up for years At the end of the things I am still not really sure how much anyone actually makes in this field. In medicine there are some raw billings that can give an inexact idea of things but dentistry is bit more vague. Is any of these covered in dentistry school? Where do you learn how to setup your practise etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchEnemy Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 hi OP sorry to hijack. Could any canadian dentists here please reply my thread? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 This is the probably with these sorts of threads - and they have been cropping up for years At the end of the things I am still not really sure how much anyone actually makes in this field. In medicine there are some raw billings that can give an inexact idea of things but dentistry is bit more vague. Is any of these covered in dentistry school? Where do you learn how to setup your practise etc? I think theres a course or two later on in the curriculum on how to run a practise but im not to sure as to how much depth they go into it. As I am not a dentist but just an applicant right now to many professions lol. I totally agree its really hard to determine how much anyone really makes from these threads. Its all hearsay on this site lol. Best bet is to just talk to actual working dentists/doctors and see what type of financial shape they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human instinct Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 the average salary for an ontario dentist in 2010 was $166,885 according to journal of ontario dental association (http://www.dvtail.com/publications/ontariodentist/ODA_10_MediaKit.pdf) ...this maybe an average of all practice types however (i.e. associate, own practice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 the average salary for an ontario dentist in 2010 was $166,885 according to journal of ontario dental association (http://www.dvtail.com/publications/ontariodentist/ODA_10_MediaKit.pdf) ...this maybe an average of all practice types however (i.e. associate, own practice) Well that sounds more reliable as it is a combined pool of data from across the province. It would be logical that it would be lower to start with until you get established etc although that is not stated anywhere in the report. Notably the survey is specifically excluding part time dentists which tend to drap down a lot to the reported "average earnings" I have seen elsewhere. Anyone else have any similar summary reports from a published source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human instinct Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well that sounds more reliable as it is a combined pool of data from across the province. It would be logical that it would be lower to start with until you get established etc although that is not stated anywhere in the report. Notably the survey is specifically excluding part time dentists which tend to drap down a lot to the reported "average earnings" I have seen elsewhere. Anyone else have any similar summary reports from a published source? true, they should have defined what constitutes a full-time dentist since the average dentist works 4 times a day anyway...also around 54% of practicing dentists were in solo practice in 2010 so i believe this figure is highly representative of their salaries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusnasland Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't think it as simple as you guys are making it out to be. Lots of the money that an owner makes will be re-invested in the business or payed out as dividends. Why take a huge salary if your gonna pay a ridiculous amount of tax on it. An incorporated business pays much lower taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human instinct Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't think it as simple as you guys are making it out to be. Lots of the money that an owner makes will be re-invested in the business or payed out as dividends. Why take a huge salary if your gonna pay a ridiculous amount of tax on it. An incorporated business pays much lower taxes. you're right...that number may not be the actual take home income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 you're right...that number may not be the actual take home income. Well it would be the take home income wouldn't it - just not the total increase in worth the dentist would gain from the year (ie income can be held back in the company for later use or put into a pension plan for the dentist)? From reading what I can from the sources they are trying to include all the income - including dividends as income for the year. Also that magazine we are reading from is their attempt to get more sponsors - that is why they are presenting the demographics/income, they are trying to show that the market they access is full of high income people etc. If the actual income was obviously higher it would be in their best interest to actually present that information so they could attract/charge more for advertising space. On a side note though - that pension thing is pretty key - it's why a lot of people incorporate. Definitely going to do that when I start out if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 true, they should have defined what constitutes a full-time dentist since the average dentist works 4 times a day anyway...also around 54% of practicing dentists were in solo practice in 2010 so i believe this figure is highly representative of their salaries... I hear that 4 day a week thing mentioned quite a bit lately - is there some source for that. It just seems so very odd to me that a dentist would willingly drop to 4 days constantly on a practice (of course it could be true - I am no expert of dentistry ). Yet why would they all be doing that across the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciappmed Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 https://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/09_sdpi.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 https://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/09_sdpi.pdf Now that is a pile of data to look though Seems like in america the average income for a generalist is about 207,000. Quite a range of course (relatively high SD) but this set doesn't exclude part time workers etc. Not sure how we can directly relate this to Canada - what the is the general concensus or relative pay between Canada and the US? I suppose the number isn't wildly out of sync with the earlier Canadian number on the face of it (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human instinct Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I hear that 4 day a week thing mentioned quite a bit lately - is there some source for that. It just seems so very odd to me that a dentist would willingly drop to 4 days constantly on a practice (of course it could be true - I am no expert of dentistry ). Yet why would they all be doing that across the board? there are canadian statistics for this as well: http://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/Dental/Dental_Health_Services_in_Canada_June_2010.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human instinct Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well it would be the take home income wouldn't it - just not the total increase in worth the dentist would gain from the year (ie income can be held back in the company for later use or put into a pension plan for the dentist)? From reading what I can from the sources they are trying to include all the income - including dividends as income for the year. Also that magazine we are reading from is their attempt to get more sponsors - that is why they are presenting the demographics/income, they are trying to show that the market they access is full of high income people etc. If the actual income was obviously higher it would be in their best interest to actually present that information so they could attract/charge more for advertising space. On a side note though - that pension thing is pretty key - it's why a lot of people incorporate. Definitely going to do that when I start out if at all possible. true...probably the magazine got their income directly from the following government job profile for dentists: http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/ojf/pdf/3113_e.pdf Interestingly, the exact same income from 2005 is presented as the 2010 figure in the magazine so probably there was not much change i suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 there are canadian statistics for this as well: http://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/Dental/Dental_Health_Services_in_Canada_June_2010.pdf Cool, thanks! Pretty much confirm things. Compared to the almost double number of hours doctors typically work seems dentistry is a bit more relaxing (unless I am missing some hidden time sink here). That doesn't sound like a bad thing! Why is the gender bias so stark in this field? With a good income, flexible hours, a lot of vacation time it seems to be quite "family friendly" - which is a common reason to shy away from certain specialties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human instinct Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 haha, yeah i noticed the gender bias as well...maybe females are less fond of teeth?...its interesting though, given that the 4 day lifestyle would be an attractive feature for mothers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciappmed Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Now that is a pile of data to look though Seems like in america the average income for a generalist is about 207,000. Quite a range of course (relatively high SD) but this set doesn't exclude part time workers etc. Not sure how we can directly relate this to Canada - what the is the general concensus or relative pay between Canada and the US? I suppose the number isn't wildly out of sync with the earlier Canadian number on the face of it (?) I would say it is extremely similar in Canada. Note that the numbers are higher than it would be if it included all dentists. ("Independent dentists" do not include associates) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander2010 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 You're kidding yourself if you think you can make at least 300-400 as a dentist. No one said I made that kind of money as a dentist. I was in investment banking. I'm now on track to head to med school, but I was however interested in the OP's question, as well as the "philosophy" if you can call it that, of some of the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander2010 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I don't think it as simple as you guys are making it out to be. Lots of the money that an owner makes will be re-invested in the business or payed out as dividends. Why take a huge salary if your gonna pay a ridiculous amount of tax on it. An incorporated business pays much lower taxes. All good points. I have owned a few different businesses and it was beneficial to have the corporation earn the money and pay me out as an independent contractor, or in some cases, dividends. I was able to write off vehicles, insurance, gas, portion of home office etc to the point that I have paid very little taxes, all within the confines of the rules, of course. However, when it comes to dentistry or medicine (where I'm headed) I don't know that the same type of taxation rules apply. Definitely something to meet with the accountants about..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ostracized Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 haha, yeah i noticed the gender bias as well...maybe females are less fond of teeth?...its interesting though, given that the 4 day lifestyle would be an attractive feature for mothers Gender bias? My dental class is 70% female. What gender bias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Gender bias? My dental class is 70% female. What gender bias? All the reports on salary we were reading post the mix is currently 75% male (practising dentists). That is lagging quite a bit behind the adjustments to medicine etc. Of course it won't for long if the class mix is the start extreme the other way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 haha, yeah i noticed the gender bias as well...maybe females are less fond of teeth?...its interesting though, given that the 4 day lifestyle would be an attractive feature for mothers 4 day lifestyle? My dentist works 3 days/week, equivalent of one full day teaching and one day to pursue his activities. He told me that a dentist should be able to earn a very decent living (covering lifestyle, eucation of kids, travel, savings, etc) for 3 day's work within 10 years of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciappmed Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 4 day lifestyle? My dentist works 3 days/week, equivalent of one full day teaching and one day to pursue his activities. He told me that a dentist should be able to earn a very decent living (covering lifestyle, eucation of kids, travel, savings, etc) for 3 day's work within 10 years of practice. Haha I think I'd start feeling guilty because I'd be doing almost nothing and making more money than most people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkwon84 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Wow it feels so weird to see the thread I posted like 5 years ago brought back up here LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbure66 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I would just like to point out that for the past 4-5 years I have been looking at 'average dentist salary' threads and still have no idea regarding a conclusive answer. the averages mean nothing because it includes older dentists with well established practises making over 1 million..perhaps close to 1.5. what we need to know is the current state of dentistry for new grads with heavy debt who probably want to work in their hometown (mtl,t.o,vancouver,hali etc). this is crucial for someone like me about to go 400K in debt at NYU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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