puck this wait!

[Doc Wannabe]

I called and left a voicemail to confirm my scores the other day but I didn't hear back so I went down to the office today. I was told that they didn't know my MCAT or PAS, but did have my AGPA.....a bit odd since it sounds like they were able to provide this info to those accepted June 5 and they also managed to rank me on the waiting list. When I asked what my AGPA was I was told it would take too long to fish out "because there are over 800 applicants" and I was asked to contact admissions July 13 to schedule a meeting. As much as I've tried to remain understanding here, it really seems like those not accepted into the faculty are being carelessy brushed to the side.

[keith_015]

What a debacle it has been. No clarity, no sustained structure, and seemingly no responsibility. There should be some people hanging their heads in shame right now. One good question to ask now is what admissions criteria will change this coming year to mess with prospective students? It seems especially this year that policy changed on the fly.

 

Oh, and not to rain on anybody's parade, but U of M brags about its students matching. Well, http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/8MatchReport_E.pdf shows that the school should be a little more truthful to its applicants.

[Freedom]

What a debacle it has been. No clarity, no sustained structure, and seemingly no responsibility. There should be some people hanging their heads in shame right now. One good question to ask now is what admissions criteria will change this coming year to mess with prospective students? It seems especially this year that policy changed on the fly.

 

Oh, and not to rain on anybody's parade, but U of M brags about its students matching. Well, http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/8MatchReport_E.pdf shows that the school should be a little more truthful to its applicants.

 

U of M students do match well. There are several other factors you need to consider. How competitive are the specialties they were aiming for, where they want to go, etc, etc. You also have to consider that U of M students compete with Canadians from international med schools (other schools have different rules).

 

This seems like another hit at U of M med school's quality. However, you can't just base how good or poor a school is based on that stats. Using that same document, it means that NOSM is by far the best medical school in Canada.

 

In addition, you're basing it on a single document on a single graduating class. When there are a ton more of documents (http://carms.ca/eng/operations_R1reports_09_e.shtml) and many graduating years.

 

Last thing, you should follow your own advice.

Don't mean to disrespect, but like the old adage goes, "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all."

[Freedom]

One good question to ask now is what admissions criteria will change this coming year to mess with prospective students? It seems especially this year that policy changed on the fly.

 

Any changes to admissions criteria must be motioned and approved by the U of M senate. As of right now, there are no such changes.

[hotmail]

1) People with high PAS scores - Some of those people could have had 1st or 2nd quintile PAS scores.

 

2) Being Rural helps - There is more a push to admit students with a rural background this year than in previous years.

 

Do you know how many rural students in this year? Last year was 29 offered and 26 students in. 40 for this Year?

[Renin]

What a debacle it has been. No clarity, no sustained structure, and seemingly no responsibility. There should be some people hanging their heads in shame right now. One good question to ask now is what admissions criteria will change this coming year to mess with prospective students? It seems especially this year that policy changed on the fly.

 

Oh, and not to rain on anybody's parade, but U of M brags about its students matching. Well, http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/8MatchReport_E.pdf shows that the school should be a little more truthful to its applicants.

 

I do believe that the matching process works - except if you be an ass and only want to match with one competitive program in one specific center. Then no matter what school you go to, your chances are stacked against you.

 

For example, if I apply ONLY for Rads Onc at U of T ... vs. someone who applies at all the Rads Onc programs across Canada, obviously the person who cast their net wider will have a better chance at matching their program of desire, oui?

 

And for the people who don't match any programs that did apply to many different ones, maybe they're not cut out for meds? Had bad clerkship reviews? I dunno their specific cases ... do you?

[Renin]

I emailed them but I've only gotten an auto reply saying that any real response will be delayed, so far.

 

I remember that when I requested my scores (after a rejection), it took them about 2 weeks to get back to me. When I requested my scores after admission, it was about the same time frame.

 

So hold on to your hats

[Freedom]

Do you know how many rural students in this year? Last year was 29 offered and 26 students in. 40 for this Year?

 

Unfortunately, I do not have those numbers. However, I need to point out that there won't necessarily be more students from rural areas. It's not like there is a quota. I know of a few rural students that were not offered a spot or waitlisted this year despite having AGPA/MCAT scores that I personally believed were sufficient to get accepted. It really is a combination of all factors AGPA/MCAT/PAS. I believe rural applicants, individuals with previous health care experience, or have masters/phD get a few extra points on their PAS. On the other hand, there could even be factors such as poor reference letters that hurt some applicants.

[lemonade]

Unfortunately, I do not have those numbers. However, I need to point out that there won't necessarily be more students from rural areas. It's not like there is a quota. I know of a few rural students that were not offered a spot or waitlisted this year despite having AGPA/MCAT scores that I personally believed were sufficient to get accepted. It really is a combination of all factors AGPA/MCAT/PAS. I believe rural applicants, individuals with previous health care experience, or have masters/phD get a few extra points on their PAS. On the other hand, there could even be factors such as poor reference letters that hurt some applicants.

 

How important are reference letters? Like would an amazing one get you more points? I had previously heard that the admissions committee just checks the reference letters to make sure there's nothing bad. Now I'm wondering if the quality of reference letter and who it's written by actually matters?

[stan1983]

Unfortunately, I do not have those numbers. However, I need to point out that there won't necessarily be more students from rural areas. It's not like there is a quota. I know of a few rural students that were not offered a spot or waitlisted this year despite having AGPA/MCAT scores that I personally believed were sufficient to get accepted. It really is a combination of all factors AGPA/MCAT/PAS. I believe rural applicants, individuals with previous health care experience, or have masters/phD get a few extra points on their PAS. On the other hand, there could even be factors such as poor reference letters that hurt some applicants.

 

You seem quite knowledgeable about the inner workings of U of M admissions....... what is your impression/estimation on the future movement of the waitlist?

[Renin]

How important are reference letters? Like would an amazing one get you more points? I had previously heard that the admissions committee just checks the reference letters to make sure there's nothing bad. Now I'm wondering if the quality of reference letter and who it's written by actually matters?

 

I have also heard that the ref letters don't really matter, as long as it doesn't say anything terrible.

 

I don't know about the new system, however.

[switcheroo]

At the interview orientation in February, Beth said the reference letters were (at least this year) just checked for red flags, and otherwise weren't used.

[Freedom]

At the interview orientation in February, Beth said the reference letters were (at least this year) just checked for red flags, and otherwise weren't used.

 

I've heard that really outstanding reference letters were also noted. Whatever outstanding means.

[Freedom]

You seem quite knowledgeable about the inner workings of U of M admissions....... what is your impression/estimation on the future movement of the waitlist?

 

I really don't know much more than the average person. If I had to guess, most likely similar to last year. However, you never really know what the decisions of students are.

 

I have a feeling it will be a more than last year since I've personally heard of a handful of people planning on deferring or already declined due to a variety of reasons. People may even defer a week into class.

 

Just focus on what you can do for next year (although I hope people started thinking and working towards next year's application after the June 5 round).

[lemonade]

Just focus on what you can do for next year (although I hope people started thinking and working towards next year's application after the June 5 round).

 

How much can actually be done? I mean if you're trying to work on building more experience, the deadline for applications is October, so unless you get anything in between now and then, you won't be able to put it on your application.

[Renin]

How much can actually be done? I mean if you're trying to work on building more experience, the deadline for applications is October, so unless you get anything in between now and then, you won't be able to put it on your application.

 

Well, it's your one chance

[Freedom]

How much can actually be done? I mean if you're trying to work on building more experience, the deadline for applications is October, so unless you get anything in between now and then, you won't be able to put it on your application.

 

It's not just about the application form. In 4 months, you can re-write your MCAT multiple times(even if it means going down to Fargo/Bismark/Minneapolis). Getting a great reference will be difficult in that short of a time. However, throughout the year, you could go traveling, learn more about yourself, learn why you want to become a doctor again, improve your ability to sell yourself/debate/reason/explain and don't make it seem like you are lying to your interviewers (actually advice I got from one of the residents doing interviews), take toastmasters, etc, etc. You can also consider other careers and evaluate for yourself why you still want medicine. The most important thing you can do, in my opinion, is keep doing what you've been doing in terms of extracurriculars and volunteering. It's not like anything went wrong with an individual's application, it just so happened there were people that had a stronger application/mcat/sold themselves/explained things better than you. Just strengthen what you have and learn how to sell it better.. but of course, you still need a competitive MCAT.

 

Still all my opinion though.

[lemonade]

It's not just about the application form. In 4 months, you can re-write your MCAT multiple times(even if it means going down to Fargo/Bismark/Minneapolis). Getting a great reference will be difficult in that short of a time. However, throughout the year, you could go traveling, learn more about yourself, learn why you want to become a doctor again, improve your ability to sell yourself/debate/reason/explain and don't make it seem like you are lying to your interviewers (actually advice I got from one of the residents doing interviews), take toastmasters, etc, etc. You can also consider other careers and evaluate for yourself why you still want medicine. The most important thing you can do, in my opinion, is keep doing what you've been doing in terms of extracurriculars and volunteering. It's not like anything went wrong with an individual's application, it just so happened there were people that had a stronger application/mcat/sold themselves/explained things better than you. Just strengthen what you have and learn how to sell it better.. but of course, you still need a competitive MCAT.

 

Still all my opinion though.

 

What would be a competitive MCAT? Say a 11.2 on the UofM scale, is that good enough?

[OilCoveredOtter]

i slipped through with a 10.3, so with an 11+ id think youd be both fine and/or dandy

[ericl]

i slipped through with a 10.3, so with an 11+ id think youd be both fine and/or dandy

 

that's for IP though right? I'm debating if I should apply OOP cause I have a 10.9... and the minimum that was accepted last year was an 11... seems like a small difference but not sure still...

[Freedom]

that's for IP though right? I'm debating if I should apply OOP cause I have a 10.9... and the minimum that was accepted last year was an 11... seems like a small difference but not sure still...

 

If you're not sure if you want to apply, I would wait until the stats are released. Probably sometime in late August or September (last was Sept 24). The U of M application would probably be due in October (last year was Oct 4) and it's a lot easier to fill out than other schools.

[Freedom]

P.S. The waitlist is moving. Another one just got in today.

[Doc Wannabe]

So have 2 people been accepted off the waitlist so far or are there more (I noticed a post from someone just after the June 5 offers that said they were going to decline)?

[hotmail]

got off the waitlist!

 

Agpa 4.2, Amcat 12. IP

[Renin]

Yay! Congrats waitlister-off-ers!