Money, Prestige, and Lifestyle

[futurepediatric]

actually... there are NOT easier ways to make money than medicine feel free to state a single example that's more likely.

yes using gold diggers for sex then kicking them out means you're an idiot... no wonder doctors have such a high divorce rate

 

tell that to all those divorced doctors who had tons of life experience but now get to see their kids on weekends only while they work 65 hours a week only to pay half of their 350k income to some whore who's with another dude now.

 

 

this

 

We went through this... I suggested owning your own business... just b/c you don't think that's easier, doesn't mean other people don't

Some people can thrive off opening their own business but could never write the MCAT... it's very person-dependent so stop making that argument lol

[frozenarbitor]

The topic of whether doctors make the most has been brought up many times before. For example,

http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45109&page=4&highlight=medical+student+law+business

 

I probably shouldn't have said that there are easier ways to make money than medicine because I'm not really familiar with the details in this area. I take that back. But still, if your motivation to go into medicine is mostly money, prestige, women, I think that's pretty lame. But then again, some people with this kind of mentality do make it into med school. It's a sad reality. I'll stop commenting on this thread (probably shouldn't have got involved in the first place).

[medigeek]

We went through this... I suggested owning your own business... just b/c you don't think that's easier, doesn't mean other people don't

Some people can thrive off opening their own business but could never write the MCAT... it's very person-dependent so stop making that argument lol

 

What percentage of serious pre meds become doctors? (able to practice in Canada, or US for those going there)

 

what percentage of business owners make a higher amount of cash per hour than doctors do? AND have as much guaranteed income as doctors (you dont go "out of business" as a doctor)?

[futurepediatric]

What percentage of serious pre meds become doctors? (able to practice in Canada, or US for those going there)

 

what percentage of business owners make a higher amount of cash per hour than doctors do? AND have as much guaranteed income as doctors (you dont go "out of business" as a doctor)?

 

No I don't and neither do you

Business is risk-taking and so is trying to get into medicine

[medigeek]

No I don't and neither do you

Business is risk-taking and so is trying to get into medicine

 

and which has the lower risk?

[futurepediatric]

and which has the lower risk?

 

I don't know, but let me know when you find out

[deeman101]

Off the top of my head ways to make more money in other professions easier than a doc:

 

engineer - innovate something, sell, $$. Or just do your time and you'll rise up into the $150 to $200k with sweet benefits

 

accountant - pretty rich in your 20s, really rich in your 30s, sky is the limit after (CEO being ultimate $$$), as long as you have some drive and ambition

 

pharmacist - so easy, basically guaranteed $100k, and sky is the limit if you hook up with big pharma

 

dentist - you can skip that whole residency BS and go straight to owning your own practice and billing insurance companies directly for whatever you want. Seriously there are so many dentists making more than docs....a lot more

 

lawyer - this was actually my back up. So much $$$. Even if you forgo private practice to become a judge

 

investment banker - enough said. Interestingly one of my classmates and a good friend used to be an IB. He says its the easiest **** in the world, just pretend like you know whats up in whatever you're speculating on

 

many positions in the stock market industry, the titles are so BS but they make so much for doing random things

 

bank manager - my 23yo friend from HS is an associate bank manager, few more years and he'll move up to the main job and quiet a bit of $$$. But in most fields (construction, telecom, finance, marketing, etc.) senior managers are generally extremely well paid anyways

 

chiropractor - OMG $$$$$$$. Their bad quarter is a family doc's yearly income

 

so much more...

 

There are so many ways to make a lot of money if you really wanted to. In most of them you just need to show some ambition and intelligence, things you would most likely have anyways if you can get into med. The key difference is most docs don't make 6 figures until very late 20s or early 30s. And up until residency they've just been digging themselves a massive debt hole. All the jobs I listed above will get you rich in your 20s and you won't have nearly as much debt to pay off too.

 

Btw average income for docs is more in the 150k range than 300k range. Sadly people think docs are absolute ballers. Some are, but most aren't. Most are broken shells of their formerly bright-eyed med school selves that are just overworked endlessly for the rest of their lives. Not many professionals in other fields are fully expected to put in way more than the regular 40hrs / wk without any overtime.

 

EDIT: oh yea theres always the danger of ex: permenantly damaging your hand after training to be a surgeon. Now you pretty much have to retrain in another residency....while that big cloud of debt just keeps growing over your head.

[futurepediatric]

Off the top of my head ways to make more money in other professions easier than a doc:

 

engineer - innovate something, sell, $$. Or just do your time and you'll rise up into the $150 to $200k with sweet benefits

 

accountant - pretty rich in your 20s, really rich in your 30s, sky is the limit after (CEO being ultimate $$$), as long as you have some drive and ambition

 

pharmacist - so easy, basically guaranteed $100k, and sky is the limit if you hook up with big pharma

 

dentist - you can skip that whole residency BS and go straight to owning your own practice and billing insurance companies directly for whatever you want. Seriously there are so many dentists making more than docs....a lot more

 

lawyer - this was actually my back up. So much $$$. Even if you forgo private practice to become a judge

 

investment banker - enough said. Interestingly one of my classmates and a good friend used to be an IB. He says its the easiest **** in the world, just pretend like you know whats up in whatever you're speculating on

 

many positions in the stock market industry, the titles are so BS but they make so much for doing random things

 

bank manager - my 23yo friend from HS is an associate bank manager, few more years and he'll move up to the main job and quiet a bit of $$$. But in most fields (construction, telecom, finance, marketing, etc.) senior managers are generally extremely well paid

 

chiropractor - OMG $$$$$$$. Their bad quarter is a family doc's yearly income

 

so much more...

 

There are so many ways to make a lot of money if you really wanted to. In most of them you just need to show some ambition and intelligence, things you would most likely have anyways if you can get into med. The key difference is most docs don't make 6 figures until very late 20s or early 30s. And up until residency they've just been digging themselves a massive debt hole. All the jobs I listed above will get you rich in your 20s and you won't have nearly as much debt to pay off too.

 

Btw average income for docs is more in the 150k range than 300k range. Sadly people think docs are absolute ballers. Some are, but most aren't. Most are broken shells of their formerly bright-eyed med school selves that are just overworked endlessly for the rest of their lives. Not many professionals in other fields are fully expected to put in way more than the regular 40hrs / wk without any overtime.

 

I'm waiting for your reply medigeek

 

Plus, didn't someone on this forum post something about truck driver out of HS earning 60g/yr makes more $ than the average doctor

[Morzan]

Come on man, engineers making 150-200?

 

Let's assume docs make less money than all these niggaz.

 

Would you really want to spend your life learning and working with something like accounting? I know I couldn't, at some point I want to die knowing I learned a lot about the world I stumbled upon. Can't imagine dealing with bs money/law problems from other people, while the 'whole ocean of truth' lay ahead of me. quoted newton there like a boss.

 

Off the top of my head ways to make more money in other professions easier than a doc:

 

engineer - innovate something, sell, $$. Or just do your time and you'll rise up into the $150 to $200k with sweet benefits

 

accountant - pretty rich in your 20s, really rich in your 30s, sky is the limit after (CEO being ultimate $$$), as long as you have some drive and ambition

 

pharmacist - so easy, basically guaranteed $100k, and sky is the limit if you hook up with big pharma

 

dentist - you can skip that whole residency BS and go straight to owning your own practice and billing insurance companies directly for whatever you want. Seriously there are so many dentists making more than docs....a lot more

 

lawyer - this was actually my back up. So much $$$. Even if you forgo private practice to become a judge

 

investment banker - enough said. Interestingly one of my classmates and a good friend used to be an IB. He says its the easiest **** in the world, just pretend like you know whats up in whatever you're speculating on

 

many positions in the stock market industry, the titles are so BS but they make so much for doing random things

 

bank manager - my 23yo friend from HS is an associate bank manager, few more years and he'll move up to the main job and quiet a bit of $$$. But in most fields (construction, telecom, finance, marketing, etc.) senior managers are generally extremely well paid

 

chiropractor - OMG $$$$$$$. Their bad quarter is a family doc's yearly income

 

so much more...

 

There are so many ways to make a lot of money if you really wanted to. In most of them you just need to show some ambition and intelligence, things you would most likely have anyways if you can get into med. The key difference is most docs don't make 6 figures until very late 20s or early 30s. And up until residency they've just been digging themselves a massive debt hole. All the jobs I listed above will get you rich in your 20s and you won't have nearly as much debt to pay off too.

 

Btw average income for docs is more in the 150k range than 300k range. Sadly people think docs are absolute ballers. Some are, but most aren't. Most are broken shells of their formerly bright-eyed med school selves that are just overworked endlessly for the rest of their lives. Not many professionals in other fields are fully expected to put in way more than the regular 40hrs / wk without any overtime.

 

EDIT: oh yea theres always the danger of ex: permenantly damaging your hand after training to be a surgeon. Now you pretty much have to retrain in another residency....while that big cloud of debt just keeps growing over your head.

[cnb88]

I'm waiting for your reply medigeek

 

Plus, didn't someone on this forum post something about truck driver out of HS earning 60g/yr makes more $ than the average doctor

 

Yeah, deeman basically just listed university/college educated jobs that can get that money.

 

How about people that work on the rigs? You don't even need a HS diploma for some places and you START making 100k/yr. I know people that are now making 350k/yr.

 

Also, how about working up in Fort Mac in AB? You can work at McDonald's and make $23/hr. At McDonald's. May not be rolling in the cash, but considering you're asking "would you like fries with that" all day... pretty f'ing good.

 

Tree planters in AB also make crazy good cash. How'd you like to retire by 35 with a several million-dollar home, a boat, expensive cars/trucks, a motorhome, various other big "toys", no debt, and enough you can live quite frivolously for the rest of your life? Some docs will still be in residency/fellowship at 35......

 

Mechanics, electricians, people in construction, plumbers, etc can also make some pretty ballin' cash, for only a few years' worth of training. By 20 they've got their trade certificate, and can earn a comfortable amount before you can even THINK about applying.

 

There's a ton of other jobs that easily make more money than docs.

 

 

Being a doctor isn't the be-all-end-all of prestige, money, and "9.5 chicks" some of you think it is. And seriously, do you really think a 9.5 that's a golddigger is going to spend the time from when you get accepted to med (let's say you're a genius and get accepted at 20), 4 years of med (24), and then 4-7 of residency (making a pittance) to become one of the docs that can make a crazy amount of money (assuming you're brilliant and get a job without having to do a fellowship for several years making barely more than a pittance)? That's 10 years (or more) that that golddigger is going to have to wait before you MIGHT be rolling in the cash. Guaranteed they'll go elsewhere to get the money if they're really in it for the cash. Seriously. Not every chick is a golddigger. Some actually like the person for who they are... not what they're going to make in 10 or more years Shocking. I know.

[medigeek]

Off the top of my head ways to make more money in other professions easier than a doc:

 

engineer - innovate something, sell, $$. Or just do your time and you'll rise up into the $150 to $200k with sweet benefits

 

accountant - pretty rich in your 20s, really rich in your 30s, sky is the limit after (CEO being ultimate $$$), as long as you have some drive and ambition

 

pharmacist - so easy, basically guaranteed $100k, and sky is the limit if you hook up with big pharma

 

dentist - you can skip that whole residency BS and go straight to owning your own practice and billing insurance companies directly for whatever you want. Seriously there are so many dentists making more than docs....a lot more

 

lawyer - this was actually my back up. So much $$$. Even if you forgo private practice to become a judge

 

investment banker - enough said. Interestingly one of my classmates and a good friend used to be an IB. He says its the easiest **** in the world, just pretend like you know whats up in whatever you're speculating on

 

many positions in the stock market industry, the titles are so BS but they make so much for doing random things

 

bank manager - my 23yo friend from HS is an associate bank manager, few more years and he'll move up to the main job and quiet a bit of $$$. But in most fields (construction, telecom, finance, marketing, etc.) senior managers are generally extremely well paid

 

chiropractor - OMG $$$$$$$. Their bad quarter is a family doc's yearly income

 

so much more...

 

There are so many ways to make a lot of money if you really wanted to. In most of them you just need to show some ambition and intelligence, things you would most likely have anyways if you can get into med. The key difference is most docs don't make 6 figures until very late 20s or early 30s. And up until residency they've just been digging themselves a massive debt hole. All the jobs I listed above will get you rich in your 20s and you won't have nearly as much debt to pay off too.

 

Btw average income for docs is more in the 150k range than 300k range. Sadly people think docs are absolute ballers. Some are, but most aren't. Most are broken shells of their formerly bright-eyed med school selves that are just overworked endlessly for the rest of their lives. Not many professionals in other fields are fully expected to put in way more than the regular 40hrs / wk without any overtime.

 

EDIT: oh yea theres always the danger of ex: permenantly damaging your hand after training to be a surgeon. Now you pretty much have to retrain in another residency....while that big cloud of debt just keeps growing over your head.

 

I literally lol'd reading that. You're comparing the top 5% of those jobs (5% being generous) with the bottom 5% of doctors.

 

I'll respond to all of those jobs one by one.

 

Engineer - my dad's an engineering manager at a large aerospace company and they regularly hire waterloo and uoft grads. Average salary of approx. 50k (as of right now), and these are guys with solid gpas, not someone who passed by 2%. I've talked to a an engineer AND an engineering manager at OPG (top boss place for engineers), and salaries werent even starting off at 50k. All 3 of these people said engineering is NOT good money unless you're in the top 2-3%. EDIT: I just took in you said engineers making 200k... lol... oh buddy... I'll change that to 0.2% of engineers

 

Accountant - Saturated job market + 40-45k starting salary. lolwut. And good luck with those 80 hour weeks when april's close.

 

Pharmacist - good luck even finding a FLOATING job in toronto/gta, let alone a full time one. 100k for pharmacists is a thing of the past, with 35 hour weeks making 40$/hour is the absolute best you can get, and that's out in the sticks 3 hours north of toronto.

 

Dentist - there's a dental office in every single plaza I drive by, you think in 4-6 years when "pre dent" students graduate.... it'll be better? lolz... your reply with probably be with some dental specialty being referenced, but why not just become a radiology or a derm? because that's about as likely.

 

Lawyer - you're still in school for 8 hours total, and several people with lawyer friends have said the work hours are near insane, and the pay is not great at all (per hour) until you're well into your career. money you make in your late 50s is a different story than money made in your 30s. And look up public salary disclosures, doctors slap all attorney salaries (in many cases doubling)

 

IB - Sounds like you talked to some random douche, or just someone representing <1% of the case. All I've heard about IB is that it's insane hours, very often for ~100k.

 

chiropractor - I know 3 and all say its decent money but not great by any means. I don't know where you're getting these ideas from.

 

 

Things to consider (that you're wrong on):

 

- Average salary for doctors is more like >200k (how many specialties even average under 200k?, plenty of FMs even making >400k) http://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/5/776.1.full.pdf

- Not every MD has lots of debt, some even have 0

- The job market will be the best for doctors more than any of those things you named off

- Tuition costs in Canada are not that high for medicine

[deeman101]

^ I don't think you know the bottom 5% of physicians (that would be <100k, not sure if it meets your $$$ criteria). And I'm sorry if your dad doesn't make that much as an engineer but if you really got some smarts you're going to be making $$$. My friend graduated UofT eng last year (also went to HS with me) and he was recruited by Shell to a $100k/yr job. 23yo, 100k/yr, great opportunities to move up, 40hrs/wk, OT pay when on call, travels all over, great benefits....yea he's one of the elite. But really you don't have to be THAT elite in any of the jobs I listed to beat 70% of docs.

 

I'll just leave it at the engineering example, cause like most med students I have waaay too much work to do than to spend time arguing with you. Suffice to say you like to pull stuff out of thin air and imagination to support your arguments.

 

Have a good one.

[medigeek]

^ I don't think you know the bottom 5% of physicians (that would be <100k, not sure if it meets your $$$ criteria). And I'm sorry if your dad doesn't make that much as an engineer but if you really got some smarts you're going to be making $$$. My friend graduated UofT eng last year (also went to HS with me) and he was recruited by Shell to a $100k/yr job. 23yo, 100k/yr, great opportunities to move up, 40hrs/wk, OT pay when on call, travels all over, great benefits....yea he's one of the elite. But really you don't have to be THAT elite in any of the jobs I listed to beat 70% of docs.

 

I'll just leave it at the engineering example, cause like most med students I have waaay too much work to do than to spend time arguing with you. Suffice to say I like to pull stuff out of thin air and imagination to support my arguments.

Have a good one.

 

lol... one would wonder how you even got into med school with this level of "thinking." My dad makes 180k/year but someone with his experience as a specialist is making more like 400k/year (as an MD).

 

Most engineers will need to get MBAs to get management positions or grad engineering degrees to get high paying jobs. Your buddy is a rare exception, because nearly all engineers I've heard of around me are making 45-55k/year for their first couple years and after several years making 60k/year. If you were anything close to smart you'd know that you're more likely to start off making 350k/year as an MD than 100k/year as an engineer.

 

Oh yea, I fixed your post for you

[cnb88]

lol... one would wonder how you even got into med school with this level of "thinking." My dad makes 180k/year but someone with his experience as a specialist is making more like 400k/year (as an MD).

 

Most engineers will need to get MBAs to get management positions or grad engineering degrees to get high paying jobs. Your buddy is a rare exception, because nearly all engineers I've heard of around me are making 45-55k/year for their first couple years and after several years making 60k/year. If you were anything close to smart you'd know that you're more likely to start off making 350k/year as an MD than 100k/year as an engineer.

 

Oh yea, I fixed your post for you

 

Actually, for engineers, the norm is around 75k to start, then it increases pretty steadily with LOTS of room for advancement even if you don't have an MBA. If you go where the jobs are (instead of settling for a 50k/yr in TO), you can easily make 100k or more within 5 years. At a cushy job. With benefits, holiday, 40hr work week, etc.

 

Also, considering he's in med and you're not, maybe it's not his thinking that's dumb?

[apache]

i'm not really bothering either, medicine is a good hedged bet, and i didn't trash it, to whoever said they'd be satisfied as a surgeon, if you love it, you love it, i remember one guy who was amazing and surgery "was" his life, thats ****ing awesome, it has to be a big portion of enjoyment in your life if you're going to do it, i'm really happy for him, because he's being true to himself. my other friend, who likes surgery, but now doesn't even want to do residency, came to the conclusion i'd been suggesting for a year or so, you may love it, but do you love it more than what'd you'd be doing with an extra 50 hours a week, and for this person, it was a no... and whoever said it was silly to look back at your life, you really didn't get the metaphor, the metaphor is to live in the moment as if it would be in the book, the emphasis was away from both the future and the past, but living in the moment, and if you enjoy being away from your kids as much as you do at codes, then i take my hat off to you, youre living authentically to yourself, if you're going to argue that you're doing it primarily for money, well then i sort of pity you, and hope you go into optho or derm, because traditional hedonism can be great, and those specialties can offer you that, plus you really help people... vision is something we really value, and people value their skin health... plus you get tons of money compared to the hours, i would have loved to do psychiatry, but the only reason is because i really enjoy it, otherwise there's no way you can justify putting up with some of the **** you see for even 200 k a year, or dealing with it when you find out a patient committed suicide, there has to be a little bit more reward or incentive, even with the chill lifestyle in terms of hours

 

also, with the work you put in as an internist, you'll likely be at the top of those other fields, if you put in 90 hours a week into law school and get straight a's out of u of t, or put that effort into your economics degree (my friend was just offered an economics internship at the canadian embassy in china) you'll achieve as much financially, plus have life experiences that are congruent with what makes you happy, you can also get this in medicine, but for many people in it, it's just a job, and they become jaded, others love it... just hope you don't end up on the jaded end, that really sucks.

 

^ I don't think you know the bottom 5% of physicians (that would be <100k, not sure if it meets your $$$ criteria). And I'm sorry if your dad doesn't make that much as an engineer but if you really got some smarts you're going to be making $$$. My friend graduated UofT eng last year (also went to HS with me) and he was recruited by Shell to a $100k/yr job. 23yo, 100k/yr, great opportunities to move up, 40hrs/wk, OT pay when on call, travels all over, great benefits....yea he's one of the elite. But really you don't have to be THAT elite in any of the jobs I listed to beat 70% of docs.

 

I'll just leave it at the engineering example, cause like most med students I have waaay too much work to do than to spend time arguing with you. Suffice to say you like to pull stuff out of thin air and imagination to support your arguments.

 

Have a good one.

[medigeek]

Actually, for engineers, the norm is around 75k to start, then it increases pretty steadily with LOTS of room for advancement even if you don't have an MBA. If you go where the jobs are (instead of settling for a 50k/yr in TO), you can easily make 100k or more within 5 years. At a cushy job. With benefits, holiday, 40hr work week, etc.

 

Also, considering he's in med and you're not, maybe it's not his thinking that's dumb?

 

Well for one thing, I referenced a link http://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/5/776.1.full.pdf and he just named his "friend" as evidence that engineers make less than half of doctors

 

Please reference me a link which shows that 75k is the norm to start.

[apache]

no, basically i'm reiterating the buddhist notion that everything is transient, it's also very sartian, life is special, the simplest pleasures in life are special, but if you attach your happiness up to external standards and contingencies, you're bound to end up extremely unhappy for periods of your life. what i'm saying is way over your head, just ignore it.

 

I read his wall of text and from something I remember, I think that he thinks one day you'll look back and be like "my life was nothing special... F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-U-U-U-U"

[xkittens]

Actually, for engineers, the norm is around 75k to start, then it increases pretty steadily with LOTS of room for advancement even if you don't have an MBA. If you go where the jobs are (instead of settling for a 50k/yr in TO), you can easily make 100k or more within 5 years. At a cushy job. With benefits, holiday, 40hr work week, etc.

 

Also, considering he's in med and you're not, maybe it's not his thinking that's dumb?

 

HAH!

My brother got his industrial eng degree from ryerson... not only did it take him 2 years to find a job, but when he did, it only paid 30K/year

[medigeek]

lots of people love throwing around numbers and "facts" without any evidence

[aaronjw]

HAH!

My brother got his industrial eng degree from ryerson... not only did it take him 2 years to find a job, but when he did, it only paid 30K/year

 

he should have moved his ass out west where there is a plethora of jobs.

[mm88]

cnb88 is from Alberta. She'll likely quoting engineering salaries in the petrochemical/energy/fuels/geomatics industry (e.g. salary of a Fort Mac process engineer).

 

EDIT: According to the 2009 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, Albertans in the Chemical Engineers occupational group earned from $25.00 to $96.88 an hour. The average wage was $49.04 an hour.

 

That works out to about almost 100k on average. I'd say that's pretty good. If it was only 5% of people making that 96.88/hr, I think the average value would be significantly lower.

 

http://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/Content/RequestAction.asp?aspAction=GetHTMLProfile&format=html&occPro_ID=71001585

[xkittens]

lots of people love throwing around numbers and "facts" without any evidence

 

including you a$$hole

[apache]

obviously this bothers you, just block the people who post and go study to make sure you get some "9.5's", bra, you can do it, and please lock this thread someone.

 

lots of people love throwing around numbers and "facts" without any evidence

[medigeek]

cnb88 is from Alberta. She'll likely quoting engineering salaries in the petrochemical/energy/fuels industry (e.g. salary of a Fort Mac process engineer).

 

I think it's fair to start quoting ROAD specialties then?

[medigeek]

including you a$$hole

 

cool insult brah

 

too bad I posted a link http://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/5/776.1.full.pdf and anything beyond that is a google search away.