Robin Hood Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 This may sound like a stupid question, but I was told by my neuropsy that doing research needs one to be intellectually gifted. I don't know if she was referring only to research in medicine or research in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loodogg Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 This may sound like a stupid question, but I was told by my neuropsy that doing research needs one to be intellectually gifted. I don't know if she was referring only to research in medicine or research in general. I would definitely argue against. Of course you need to have a good head on your shoulders, but more importantly you need to be motivated and genuinely have an interest in research, especially your research topic/project. Many who have had lower grades in undergrad go on to be exceptional graduate students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 need to be pretty intelligent to have a career in basic science. Not so much in clinical research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Nope, Science is easy, but it is time consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Patience, persistence, and creativity. Not to mention extensive knowledge in your area of interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 yeah, creativity and depth were two i noticed the most successful researchers had... actually, they were all really tenacious too, lol Patience, persistence, and creativity. Not to mention extensive knowledge in your area of interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 To do just any old research - or to do research that significantly advances a field? Sounds like of like asking whether you need intelligence to do math. Not really but you don't see just anyone solving Fermat's last theorem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 if you need high intelligence, i would've never been successful at it. your prof was tooting her own horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Thanks guys! Go I guess my neuropsychologist was talking out of her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gametime24 Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 It's possible she meant you need high intelligence to do independent research? I know a number of students that aren't all that "intelligent" that do great in undergrad research and a few that do pretty well in grad research, but I think to have an entire career as a researcher, you would need to be reasonably smart, not any sort of genius is necessary though. Just a good, logical thought process, dedication, a touch of creativity, and a willingness to go outside the norm when you see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Lawyers need to excel at logical reasoning. There are many lawyers lacking in good judgment, common sense and having the ability to handle problems in a practical manner, notwithstanding having logical reasoning skills. In other words, many who make very good livings are incompetent with the client none the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 haha, my overall iq is 4 percent below the median because they incorporated the 5 subgroups where I was at what they call the borderline/mentally retarded level... the fact that a neuropsych even used the word "intellectually gifted" seems to derive too much from the common vernacular for me to believe she know's what she's talking about, maybe they just gave her a PhD to get her out of the program, lol, because she seems intellectually limited... are you sure you trust her assessment skills, lol? This may sound like a stupid question, but I was told by my neuropsy that doing research needs one to be intellectually gifted. I don't know if she was referring only to research in medicine or research in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 yeah, there's many different "niches" you can fit as a lawyer... There are many lawyers lacking in good judgment, common sense and having the ability to handle problems in a practical manner, notwithstanding having logical reasoning skills. In other words, many who make very good livings are incompetent with the client none the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 haha, my overall iq is 4 percent below the median because they incorporated the 5 subgroups where I was at what they call the borderline/mentally retarded level... the fact that a neuropsych even used the word "intellectually gifted" seems to derive too much from the common vernacular for me to believe she know's what she's talking about, maybe they just gave her a PhD to get her out of the program, lol, because she seems intellectually limited... are you sure you trust her assessment skills, lol? Sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 haha, my overall iq is 4 percent below the median because they incorporated the 5 subgroups where I was at what they call the borderline/mentally retarded level... the fact that a neuropsych even used the word "intellectually gifted" seems to derive too much from the common vernacular for me to believe she know's what she's talking about, maybe they just gave her a PhD to get her out of the program, lol, because she seems intellectually limited... are you sure you trust her assessment skills, lol? She counterindicated me math/chem/phys and predicted that if I get into med school, I will fail it or hate it. My non-verbal and perceptual reasoning scores are mentally-retarded/borderline levels. Verbal is not 63th percentile, and arithmetics is 95th (no, I'm not bragging). It wasn't her who do my IQ test, she only tested my concentration (medz were not enough). And she explicitly told me those who do research in med school are intellectually gifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 There are many lawyers lacking in good judgment, common sense and having the ability to handle problems in a practical manner, notwithstanding having logical reasoning skills. In other words, many who make very good livings are incompetent with the client none the wiser. Good point and sadly this transcends all industries. I have clients who I am currently trying to walk them back from deals signed with agencies because they were sold a bill of goods until I came along and started asking questions. Just with one client, there are 34 brands (pharma company) and have basically been milked out of close to $15MM this year and 5 times that over the past 5 years. The agencies preyed upon my clients in hoping that they wouldn't be the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 i've actually quite a few articles on why measuring holistic cognitive ability via traditional means can be more or less bunk, there's a lot of research into language ability, and extreme temporal lobe development in certain language pathways being able to greatly enhance working memory, which among, impulse control, poor verbal skills, are pretty much what kill ppl with adhd... one psychiatrist i saw refused to diagnose me with adhd solely based on my high working memory, even though i'm so grossly positive on everything, literally everything, else... i guess a good metaphor would be, putting a v8 in a little toyota tercel won't work, because minds work as a cohesive unit, so testing surface level characteristics doesn't always give you an idea of how certain things make work as a holistic system in practical life... there's also performance bias in actually doing the test often... which sometimes isn't evident in real world application... i actually found my assessments from grade 6, and i was thru the chart in everything except verbal/language abilities, very high in math, spatial stuff, i was ****ing blown away, i really don't think we've realized the extent of neuroplasticity... like there's a blind guy who uses a form of echo-location via ticing to kinda see in a way that gets him by, lol... seriously... there are people with half a brain too, no joke... so yeah, take everything with a grain of salt, lol She counterindicated me math/chem/phys and predicted that if I get into med school, I will fail it or hate it.My non-verbal and perceptual reasoning scores are mentally-retarded/borderline levels. Verbal is not 63th percentile, and arithmetics is 95th (no, I'm not bragging). It wasn't her who do my IQ test, she only tested my concentration (medz were not enough). And she explicitly told me those who do research in med school are intellectually gifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mist Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I think this point has been made before, but I'm going to make it again. I'm going to make this point at clearly as possible. You seem to be intelligent. You seem to have some interesting ideas that would be worthwhile to convey. It goes without saying that a board such as this derives its meat from a diversity of ideas and values. That being said, for the love of god, please try and format your words into something resembling a sensible format. You can get away with whatever your stye is if you are just writing a line or two. But for the length of what you are tending to produce, please try and work what you need to say into sentences, maybe even paragraphs. You may in fact be an absolute genius, but all I see the vast majority of the time is incomprehensible. Try and make it easy on the rest of us? i've actually quite a few articles on why measuring holistic cognitive ability via traditional means can be more or less bunk, there's a lot of research into language ability, and extreme temporal lobe development in certain language pathways being able to greatly enhance working memory, which among, impulse control, poor verbal skills, are pretty much what kill ppl with adhd... one psychiatrist i saw refused to diagnose me with adhd solely based on my high working memory, even though i'm so grossly positive on everything, literally everything, else... i guess a good metaphor would be, putting a v8 in a little toyota tercel won't work, because minds work as a cohesive unit, so testing surface level characteristics doesn't always give you an idea of how certain things make work as a holistic system in practical life... there's also performance bias in actually doing the test often... which sometimes isn't evident in real world application... i actually found my assessments from grade 6, and i was thru the chart in everything except verbal/language abilities, very high in math, spatial stuff, i was ****ing blown away, i really don't think we've realized the extent of neuroplasticity... like there's a blind guy who uses a form of echo-location via ticing to kinda see in a way that gets him by, lol... seriously... there are people with half a brain too, no joke... so yeah, take everything with a grain of salt, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m30wc0w Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I think it's a bit of a tricky issue; you can be very good at working within one field. That's what makes a good scientist good. But then what happens when there's a scientific anomaly, when the theory doesn't fit the world? That's when a paradigm shift happens and often the guys who make the paradigm shifts are not the same guys who were heavily invested in their science; Darwin developed his theory practically removed from contemporary science. Einstein was a clerk, not a professor. So to answer your question: intelligence is important, but not necessarily in the sense of "Oh you have X position at Y institution! You're going to be a great researcher!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 The agencies preyed upon my clients in hoping that they wouldn't be the wiser. Unfortunately, we all rise to our level of incompetence. An incompetent who nobody recognizes as such can do an awful lot of damage, with perhaps nobody being any the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Unfortunately, we all rise to our level of incompetence. An incompetent who nobody recognizes as such can do an awful lot of damage, with perhaps nobody being any the wiser. Unfortunately, incompetents can become politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 lol, it's easier to get elected the stupider you are here... at least rahim jaffer saw he was just filling a seat not making a difference and made few million bucks on parliament hill, lol... competent people tend to work in lobbying or high level private sector/... and they essentially run the government anyways... i'd much rather be a lobbyist than an mp, lol. Unfortunately, incompetents can become politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 so where does creativity come in... is it correlated with general fluid intelligence, all intelligences, certain types... personality variables, a combination of both... can multiple area's of the brain perform the same task as measured by a behavioural output... basically, can people who have weak abilities use their brains in certain idiosyncratic connections to produce the same results one would expect from say a larger frontal lobe etc. as a result of interactions... it's a rhetorical question anyways... language pathways which involve the temporal lobes, brocas and wernicke's as well as temporaparietal areas have been shown, when highly developed to be able to produce the same sort of working memory (with linguistic affinity, they combine to produce the best predictor of fluid intelligence, or processing power in a sense, which is interesting... since this is a highly interactionist model, which even has studies into people with unusual genotypes and phenotypic expression... the question i pose, is, can intelligence be cultivated... with intelligence defined as integrating and using new information rapidly... because i think the days of examining cognitive skills in isolation are over... the whole concept of intelligence seems archaic to me... since the output we measure in assessing intelligence is often isolated into specific brain structures... like, i don't use visualization, period, i'm 90 percent verbal, 10 percent kinesthetic... ironically, when i use different modalities of cognition in certain ways i'm extremely intelligent, but if you take my abstract visual conceptualization into the mold, i have an iq of 96... lol... in fact i have 60's, 170's... and ironically, i was a very strong visual learner in assessments when i was younger, language was my weakest capacity seriously, it bugs me how much we pigeon hole people into saying they're good at this or that... people have no idea how powerful neuroplasticity is... every person that's looked at my neuropsych evals has been wtf though, especially since i have evals from when i was a kid, although of less detail. not to toot my own horn, but you can absolutely change your brain to extreme levels, especially if your forced too... lol, like, this should seriously be integrated into adhd training... i read a dumb book on mindfulness... and she was basically trying to algorithmathize metanarratives... no ****ing idea of the biology, how language and not kinesthetics is the most important part because of it's ability to protract time much longer, meaning getting back on topic (i can trace back what i was talking about 10 minutes, 20 minutes, via linking concepts of conversation... link my random idea's since i can hold them mutually in memory)... i seriously want to write my own book, to the point, with the biology when i say this, mindfullness meditation may be good for impulse control, but her suggestions were no different than automizing checks which block out problematic behavior like interupting... yeah... lol, seriously... i guess it was ok for a shrink, since most know nothing in depth besides the dsm top 10... then again, at this point most experts in mental health sort of jokes at this point... you see bread and butter, superficiality and that's it so what personality disorders would you expect from anxious avoidant attachment... from bowlby... how about some object relations... neuropsych... le sigh... why don't they just put psychologists in dentists place, put dentistry in medicine, and let biological psychologists who know more than how to throw olanzapine at anorexic patients... or are likely to treat the secondary symptoms of adhd, because you don't know the most common 150 or so criteria (very idiosyncratic and unusual, not very generalizable but high inter-rater reliability and very high inter-questioning reliability over time, even high co-correlation with childhood secondary reports) making the circle of bs worse... oi, i could go on i could see myself pulling a nietschze like polemic in ten days, then again, self help books are probably more profitable... not like there's much competition besides the people who make a career on obscure disorders (obscure as in as common as bipolar, but hard to find continuing cme credits in outside the hospital... or too nebulous to master... lol, k, gotta learn to shut mouth... might eventually offend someone who tells me being on meth is likely bipolar because of risk taking by saying it could be self treatment and perhaps should evaluate and treat with xr amps... yeah, crazy eh... people self medicating, lol... oh my, and manic on meth, depressed for a week after crashing... lol. diligence... it doesn't pay well... unless you do some legal evals after... bipolar, rates go down for every hour of evaluation spent assessing (cyclothymia... hypomania could be... adhd, first exclusionary in the dsm... oops... aggressive behavior, what you insinuate when someone stands... until you know that people with hyperactivity rarely sit, lazy, what my elitist self, if for no other reason than seeing the consequences of laziness, thinks of most people in mental health... at least, the experts, the bachelors educated drug counselors usually have too much experience to drink the kool-aid... and me, jesus, i'm nuts... i wish i didn't carry about biological med (how did that happen?)... so i could go get a clin psych phd, make my 500 g, and order rx's through the shrink, because psychologists have to know medicine... ya, the whole arrogant spiel is a joke (if not true) exemplifying my frustration for over-simplification.... but what do i know, i have a below average iq, guess the gestalt whole is the sum of more than it's parts... Yes, of course we do need high intelligence to do research work. As we need to perform a lot of mental task during our research work. Such as applying assumptions, collecting information and finding reasons and logic's behind the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward son Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 but what do i know, i have a below average iq, guess the gestalt whole is the sum of more than it's parts... Last November you said your IQ was "through the roof." 1 in 1000 range. In January you said it was 148. I am not trying to call you out. Nor do I give a damn about someone's IQ, or know my own for that matter. I just find this a little strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 i got a really comprehensive assessment done, it reported multiple iq's for different aggregates of things... individual tasks... and a grand amalgamated one... i've also done others for the government and stuff... sometimes the aggregate one is a good illustration of the straightfaced, authoritive manner in which you're delivered a waste of money... the aggregate... i exclude the few bottom one percentile abstract spatial reasoning tasks usually... unless i'm writing the dat, they're not really necessary to thinking, ironically in the end it didnt tell me much more than what i already knew... except that i really really suck at extrapolating what two sides of a 3 dimensional image would look like from a third view, rather than just suck... Last November you said your IQ was "through the roof." 1 in 1000 range. In January you said it was 148. I am not trying to call you out. Nor do I give a damn about someone's IQ, or know my own for that matter. I just find this a little strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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