johndoe88 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 How many for University of Manitoba? I heard 9...but dono how accurate that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I heard U of T had 18 unmatched, not sure how reliable that information is Can anyone confirm thatÉ Sound like a disaster if true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrb Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Yes uoft had 16 unmatched this year. A lot of cocky personalities and some poor decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancity88 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Wow that is brutal at u of t. Can anybody comment as to what happened there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkmedic Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Interesting, so it sounds like it's been an absolutely horrific year so far. Unmatched: Dal = 10+ Edmonton = 10 Ottawa = 12 UWO = 8 Queens = 1 Any more school stats? I heard from a friend at U of T that they had 17 unmatched this year, and from a friend at U of M that they had 9 unmatched this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spontaneouscombustion Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 17 out of 250 is not a huge proportion. It seems like its not even the highest proportion this year. We've seen 10% of classes not match in the past - and maybe this year too in some other schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famdream Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 17 out of 250 is not a huge proportion. We've seen 10% of classes not match in the past (and apparently this year too in some other schools?). Ya, but didn't you know? It's only a big deal if it happens at Mac cause it's a sign of impending doom/shows us Mac sucks, but it's NBD if it happens at other schools, in that case it's only because of personality problems, or poor decision making or some other factors. Nothing to do with the school in that case. Cause all med schools except Mac are perfect. Some people really do live in a fantasy world where they don't see their own stupidity despite being supposedly very intelligent. PS: for those who see this only and none of my prior posts, I'm being sarcastic to get a point across that people here need to be more real. And this isn't aimed towards the quote I posted, don't be mad at me spontaneouscombustion, I'm not talking about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spontaneouscombustion Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ya, but didn't you know? It's only a big deal if it happens at Mac cause it's a sign of impending doom/shows us Mac sucks, but it's NBD if it happens at other schools, in that case it's only because of personality problems, or poor decision making or some other factors. Nothing to do with the school in that case. Cause all med schools except Mac are perfect. Some people really do live in a fantasy world where they don't see their own stupidity despite being supposedly very intelligent. PS: for those who see this only and none of my prior posts, I'm being sarcastic to get a point across that people here need to be more real. And this isn't aimed towards the quote I posted, don't be mad at me spontaneouscombustion, I'm not talking about you. Can we just drop this silly topic already? Yeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotmail Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I hope each of Medical school to give unmatched student a spot in the second run. Do not let them stay home waiting for next year match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkmedic Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 17 out of 250 is not a huge proportion. It seems like its not even the highest proportion this year. We've seen 10% of classes not match in the past - and maybe this year too in some other schools? Well compared to last year where only 7 went unmatched, 17 is much more significant, even if their class size is 250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ya, but didn't you know? It's only a big deal if it happens at Mac cause it's a sign of impending doom/shows us Mac sucks, but it's NBD if it happens at other schools, in that case it's only because of personality problems, or poor decision making or some other factors. Nothing to do with the school in that case. Cause all med schools except Mac are perfect. Some people really do live in a fantasy world where they don't see their own stupidity despite being supposedly very intelligent. PS: for those who see this only and none of my prior posts, I'm being sarcastic to get a point across that people here need to be more real. And this isn't aimed towards the quote I posted, don't be mad at me spontaneouscombustion, I'm not talking about you. hehehehe that all being said - I can do think these 10% unmatched numbers are a big deal - having seen the fall out from even the 3% that didn't match at Western last year even. I mean it really sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrb Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Why is everyone so surprised? No school is immune to poor match rates. Uoft is no exception. Its always the same reasons for poor match rate. 1. Apply for competitive specialty with poor/no back up. 2. Apply for less competitive specialities but only rank a few places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I noticed a large number of the med students who rotated through my service and were trying for Family Med (or other less competitive specialties) were only ranking a few programs. That's not new. But, now the ratio of med students:residency positions is worse. Maybe that played a role. Perhaps the days of not having to apply broadly if you aren't going for something competitive are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoidberg11 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Interesting, so it sounds like it's been an absolutely horrific year so far. Unmatched: Dal = 10+ Edmonton = 10 Ottawa = 12 UWO = 8 Queens = 1 Any more school stats? Queens was actually 100% matched. The one lone person who didn't match was a holdover from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotmail Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Why is everyone so surprised? No school is immune to poor match rates. Uoft is no exception. Its always the same reasons for poor match rate. 1. Apply for competitive specialty with poor/no back up. 2. Apply for less competitive specialities but only rank a few places. 3.The program did not put all interviewee on the ranking list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrb Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 ^no that's a not a reason. Why should a program rank all interviewees? Some people aren't good and a program shouldn't have to settle for that unless its like mac ortho or any path program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 ^no that's a not a reason. Why should a program rank all interviewees? Some people aren't good and a program shouldn't have to settle for that unless its like mac ortho or any path program. exactly - people have brought that up a few times lately with an underlying assumption that everyone that applies to a field should be ranked. Sometimes people don't rank programs because they believe they are not a good fit and sometimes programs don't rank someone because the program doesn't think they will be a good fit. Schools don't have to fill every spot, and are not profoundly desperate to fill everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotmail Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 ^no that's a not a reason. Why should a program rank all interviewees? Some people aren't good and a program shouldn't have to settle for that unless its like mac ortho or any path program. All medical graduates are good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 All medical graduates are good!! but not necessarily good for a particular program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrb Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 All medical graduates are good!! And all people in the world are good and poop rainbows and hug it out instead of fighting pointless wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ah, I did not expect this will turn into a debt. Now, I shall present my rebuttal. [...] Whichever field we end up going to, there will be plenty of opportunities for us to achieve greatness and professional satisfaction. The most important factor is not the specialty or program that we are in. It is the state of our own minds. If we are capable of adjusting our expectation to meet reality, there isn’t much difference between people who matched in round 1 and people who matched in round 2. A match is a match. Simply put, take what you have, and make the best of it. I think you make good points here, but I wonder whether you've been through the match - I don't know that anyone who has would agree with what you have to say, least of all those who went unmatched. I don't think that second-choicers can't or won't "adapt" as you put it to a different program or specialty. Many end up in a pretty good situation and the initial shock wears off over time. Some end up doing more or less what they wanted to as well. But it's also easy to feel disenchanted with every aspect of the process, to feel slighted and even lonely as you may end up moving away to an unfamiliar place, perhaps in a specialty you never imagined yourself doing. I wouldn't understate that those feelings can exist and it's important to empathize with them. Of course, at a certain point this goes against the often perfectionist mindset that comes along with admission to med school. Many people suffer setbacks in life of one sort or another, and few will enjoy the kind of income that just about any physician gets. There's a sting that comes with not getting your first choice and a worse shellshock that can come with not matching. I don't think that dismissing this as simply a "state of mind" is especially helpful or empathetic. I noticed a large number of the med students who rotated through my service and were trying for Family Med (or other less competitive specialties) were only ranking a few programs. That's not new. But, now the ratio of med students:residency positions is worse. Maybe that played a role. Perhaps the days of not having to apply broadly if you aren't going for something competitive are over. What's interesting is that pretty much any med student has access to sound advice about how to select electives or prepare their application. Most schools have student advisors who will even help out with personal letter writing and editing. Some people take undue risks and make choices that don't really make a lot of sense or that are out of touch with the realities of matching to a competitive speciality. We're all guilty of thinking that we'll be the exception, and sometimes we're overly influenced by people who matched a few years ago when a "broad mix of electives" was more acceptable. At the same time, the match has gotten tighter - even this year we see that family med and psych were competitive - and if the second iteration overall seems a bit more favourable (to my eyes) than the past 2-3 years, that's not much solace to the people forced into it. At some point we need to be looking to reform postgrad education to be more flexible. I have some hope that "competency-based" training may play into this, but the implications of it are yet to be fully known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 exactly - people have brought that up a few times lately with an underlying assumption that everyone that applies to a field should be ranked. Sometimes people don't rank programs because they believe they are not a good fit and sometimes programs don't rank someone because the program doesn't think they will be a good fit. Schools don't have to fill every spot, and are not profoundly desperate to fill everything. There are applicants to my program who we do not rank. We'd rather have the spot empty than take that applicant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 All medical graduates are good!! Nope, some of them are douchebags, or lazy *******s, or socially incompetent weirdos. My program would rather have the seat empty after the first round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemPetE Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I think you make good points here, but I wonder whether you've been through the match - I don't know that anyone who has would agree with what you have to say, least of all those who went unmatched. I don't think that second-choicers can't or won't "adapt" as you put it to a different program or specialty. Many end up in a pretty good situation and the initial shock wears off over time. Some end up doing more or less what they wanted to as well. But it's also easy to feel disenchanted with every aspect of the process, to feel slighted and even lonely as you may end up moving away to an unfamiliar place, perhaps in a specialty you never imagined yourself doing. I wouldn't understate that those feelings can exist and it's important to empathize with them. Of course, at a certain point this goes against the often perfectionist mindset that comes along with admission to med school. Many people suffer setbacks in life of one sort or another, and few will enjoy the kind of income that just about any physician gets. There's a sting that comes with not getting your first choice and a worse shellshock that can come with not matching. I don't think that dismissing this as simply a "state of mind" is especially helpful or empathetic. What's interesting is that pretty much any med student has access to sound advice about how to select electives or prepare their application. Most schools have student advisors who will even help out with personal letter writing and editing. Some people take undue risks and make choices that don't really make a lot of sense or that are out of touch with the realities of matching to a competitive speciality. We're all guilty of thinking that we'll be the exception, and sometimes we're overly influenced by people who matched a few years ago when a "broad mix of electives" was more acceptable. At the same time, the match has gotten tighter - even this year we see that family med and psych were competitive - and if the second iteration overall seems a bit more favourable (to my eyes) than the past 2-3 years, that's not much solace to the people forced into it. At some point we need to be looking to reform postgrad education to be more flexible. I have some hope that "competency-based" training may play into this, but the implications of it are yet to be fully known. I think you make some excellent points. I agree with you that that some reform to postgrad education training may be necessary. It's sad that there has been a loss of flexibility since the abolishment of the general intern year, where that and the general license would eliminate or reduce the incidence of a lot of these problems. It's true that competency based residency education is coming down the pipeline, and it will be a "major change" in how post-graduate medical education will be delivered and evaluated. You're right that the implications are yet to be fully known, and I would be curious to see how and if the changes do end up offering more flexibility within residency programs to trainees. As it stands right now though, with programs implementing competency based programs more or less independently of each other, I do not expect to see any changes in terms of the match to manifest themselves immediately, or at least not until each program has officially switched over in a few years. Perhaps several years down the road when the programs are mature, there might be a reevaluation of how programs are offered for the match, and how residents may switch between programs, but I do not expect any drastic changes until then. What's also interesting in my eyes, is what's going to come out of the coordinated efforts for health human resources and long term physician supply, and if it results in the drastic adjustment of the distribution of residency specialties offered. That would change the game, for sure. But again, that is many years away if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgrad2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 If you look at Match Results for CMGs by Year 1994-2013, the ratio of participation to position available stayed fairly stable around 1:1.10 for the past ten years. However, the number of final participants (i.e. new grads) has doubled compared to a decade ago (2003:1231; 2013:2695). The Royal College's employment study has already painted a grim job outlook for new specialists. If graduates who entered residency a decade ago already have difficulty finding jobs, then when we reach the end of our training 5 years down the road (probably more because of fellowships). What will the job market look like giving that there are even more residents in our cohort? Moreover, the Health Care Accord needs renegotiation in 2014, and it sounds like the federal government is going to cut funding to healthcare. I hope some positive changes will happen in this year's renegotiation. If not less $ and more people will inevitably lead to fewer jobs. I guess that's why more and more people are going for family and psych, specialties that does not depend on hospital resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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