rmorelan Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Yup. A couple at our school that only applied to Ontario FM went unmatched, and as far as most people can tell they were decent candidates - no red flags, at least. Interesting considering there are still open spots for family medicine in Ontario. That cannot feel good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Interesting considering there are still open spots for family medicine in Ontario. That cannot feel good They probably didn't apply to the smaller programs. And anyone know about Dal Ophtho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Also, does Mac-Waterloo for IM usually go unfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Yup. A couple at our school that only applied to Ontario FM went unmatched, and as far as most people can tell they were decent candidates - no red flags, at least. I think that associating those who go unmatched with red flags unfair, insensitive designation. This is not directed towards you, but in general. My school had very strong candidates go unmatched; none of them had any red flags. The reasons for being unsuccessful in Carms are more varied than just attributing the failure to a deficiency in personality, clinical skills or research productivity or interviewing skills. Attributing being unmatched to being flawed in some way also impedes any chances of these unlucky people from transferring or improving. If the foregone conclusion is that unmatched residents are low-quality, then the incentive for these residents to achieve excellence is extinguished and a self-fulfilling prophecy is made, which makes programs mediocre and further perpetuates the stereotype. The end result is burnout. I think it is more appropriate to say that Carms is a lottery in which not even the seemingly easy spots are guaranteed, and that good people have bad days. Let's be a bit more empathetic to our unlucky colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TO Docta Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 People say a lot of things about Mac--some of which are true, partly true, or false. I am biased as a Mac student, but the reality is that look at our grads from decades past. Some of them have gone on to redefine medicine and are international authorities on their scope of practice. Harvard mirrored their program on ours so that says something. In addition, although we have a PBL approach, don't assume our clinical medical knowledge is lacking. We basically have 3 years of exposure to clinical medicine through PBL cases, 7 weeks pre-clerkship electives and then clerkship. In addition, our basic science is centered around what is relevant to clinical issues rather than random facts--everything else people are going to forget as you only learn that stuff once and it never comes back and isn't important. McMaster more than any other Canadian school has had more of an impact on medical education in the past 40 years. Also, other than probably UofT (which is debatable), our clinical research is the best in Canada. I know that means little for the actual education medical students get but it shows Mac knows what its doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 They probably didn't apply to the smaller programs. And anyone know about Dal Ophtho? like Western? point as someone just pointed out is CARMS has a strong luck component as well. I have seen extremely strong candidates struck out and go unmatched - and we were all left standing there going why that person of all people? That student is amazing! You really cannot take things for granted, and applying broadly is a good idea. I should say one of the problems is it isn't just students that may think a first round unmatched candidate is not up to the same calibre as those that do - but the programs as well. The match statistics on people going into the second round and even reapplying the following year are not great at all. Our student adviser was quite clear in pointing out that some programs have biases in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 like Western? point as someone just pointed out is CARMS has a strong luck component as well. I have seen extremely strong candidates struck out and go unmatched - and we were all left standing there going why that person of all people? That student is amazing! You really cannot take things for granted, and applying broadly is a good idea. I should say one of the problems is it isn't just students that may think a first round unmatched candidate is not up to the same calibre as those that do - but the programs as well. The match statistics on people going into the second round and even reapplying the following year are not great at all. Our student adviser was quite clear in pointing out that some programs have biases in that regard. This is entirely true. If one is labeled as a leper because of not matching in Carms round 1, which we all know is often due to luck, then that person has no incentive to perform above and beyond expectations in their secondary program, and no hope to achieve professional satisfaction. A friend of mine who was unmatched two years ago no longer participates in research or teaching in their secondary program because she accurately feels there is no point in doing so when programs judge her negatively for failing to match, where in medical school she was prolific in such things. There are two classes of residents. Those that match, and those that don't. The differences in opportunities ahead of them is not minuscule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrb Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Everyone except one matched at queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 like Western? point as someone just pointed out is CARMS has a strong luck component as well. I have seen extremely strong candidates struck out and go unmatched - and we were all left standing there going why that person of all people? That student is amazing! You really cannot take things for granted, and applying broadly is a good idea. I should say one of the problems is it isn't just students that may think a first round unmatched candidate is not up to the same calibre as those that do - but the programs as well. The match statistics on people going into the second round and even reapplying the following year are not great at all. Our student adviser was quite clear in pointing out that some programs have biases in that regard. Sorry, I meant stuff like the Grand Erie Six Nations and even \Western Regional (as opposed to Western Urban) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 This is entirely true. If one is labeled as a leper because of not matching in Carms round 1, which we all know is often due to luck, then that person has no incentive to perform above and beyond expectations in their secondary program, and no hope to achieve professional satisfaction. A friend of mine who was unmatched two years ago no longer participates in research or teaching in their secondary program because she accurately feels there is no point in doing so when programs judge her negatively for failing to match, where in medical school she was prolific in such things. There are two classes of residents. Those that match, and those that don't. The differences in opportunities ahead of them is not minuscule. What do you mean by "secondary program"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan0105 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 This turned into a mega downer of a thread. Its hard being in a field and chugging through the hours wondering what life could have been like if you were in the field you actually wanted. You can't blame someone for feeling a bit sour and not wanting to do research anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgrad2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 It's not easy to lower our expectations and keep our inner self completely peaceful and happy at the same time. Especially for us, a selective bunch who are so used to having high expectations. But once in awhile, when expectation is much greater than reality, we need to learn how to lower our expectation and maintain inner peace, as reality often cannot be changed. Winston Churchill once said, "it is no use doing what you like; you have got to like what you do." Such is life. Congrats to people who have matched, and best of luck to people applying in the second iteration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohaloh Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 It's not easy to lower our expectations and keep our inner self completely peaceful and happy at the same time. Especially for us, a selective bunch who are so used to having high expectations. But once in awhile, when expectation is much greater than reality, we need to learn how to lower our expectation and maintain inner peace, as reality often cannot be changed. Winston Churchill once said, "it is no use doing what you like; you have got to like what you do." Such is life. Congrats to people who have matched, and best of luck to people applying in the second iteration. Lol @ equation. Couldn't be truer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 It's not easy to lower our expectations and keep our inner self completely peaceful and happy at the same time. Especially for us, a selective bunch who are so used to having high expectations. But once in awhile, when expectation is much greater than reality, we need to learn how to lower our expectation and maintain inner peace, as reality often cannot be changed. Winston Churchill once said, "it is no use doing what you like; you have got to like what you do." Such is life. Congrats to people who have matched, and best of luck to people applying in the second iteration. As a rebuttal, ambition is the fire that's ignited when reality fails to meet expectations. Stagnation is accepting a flawed reality as truth, and nothing good comes of it. Winston Churchill was also a sufferer of depression and alcoholism, yet managed to lead England to victory during World War II. His words do not sound as if they are from one who accepted a flawed reality. Let's not expect strong individuals to extinguish their torches because of one bad stroke of luck. Let's also not expect unlucky people to accept a reality where they are "not worthy" of their ambitions. This reflects their worth as being less than their peers, which again leads to burnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 As a rebuttal, ambition is the fire that's ignited when reality fails to meet expectations. Stagnation is accepting a flawed reality as truth, and nothing good comes of it. Winston Churchill was also a sufferer of depression and alcoholism, yet managed to lead England to victory during World War II. His words do not sound as if they are from one who accepted a flawed reality. Let's not expect strong individuals to extinguish their torches because of one bad stroke of luck. Let's also not expect unlucky people to accept a reality where they are "not worthy" of their ambitions. This reflects their worth as being less than their peers, which again leads to burnout. ha - if medical students were the sort of people that gave up when they hit adversity they would have never gotten into medical school in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Dal had a bit more than 10 from what I understand. Interesting, so it sounds like it's been an absolutely horrific year so far. Unmatched: Dal = 10+ Edmonton = 10 Ottawa = 12 UWO = 8 Queens = 1 Any more school stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theroadtorads Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Interesting, so it sounds like it's been an absolutely horrific year so far. Unmatched: Dal = 10+ Edmonton = 10 Ottawa = 12 UWO = 8 Queens = 1 Any more school stats? I heard U of T had 18 unmatched, not sure how reliable that information is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureGP789 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I've heard 3 to 5 at Calgary unmatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancity88 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Mac had 5 as far as I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotmail Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 How many for University of Manitoba? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavrik13 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Really weird year for the match. Makes me a little scared for next year. Dal was 11 unmatched spots from what I heard, far more than normal (~10% of the class). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spontaneouscombustion Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Interesting considering there are still open spots for family medicine in Ontario. That cannot feel good I'm pretty sure that at least a few of the open spots in Ontario were IMG spots, which they wouldn't have access to in the first round. But yeah, not happy times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Really weird year for the match. Makes me a little scared for next year. Dal was 11 unmatched spots from what I heard, far more than normal (~10% of the class). there is A LOT of randomness in the match - get a class that just has an usual number of people interested in competitive things and it can skew everything. Take Mac last year for instance. I guess want I am saying it not to focus too much on how a particular class overall is doing at least in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgrad2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 As a rebuttal, ambition is the fire that's ignited when reality fails to meet expectations. Stagnation is accepting a flawed reality as truth, and nothing good comes of it. Winston Churchill was also a sufferer of depression and alcoholism, yet managed to lead England to victory during World War II. His words do not sound as if they are from one who accepted a flawed reality. Let's not expect strong individuals to extinguish their torches because of one bad stroke of luck. Let's also not expect unlucky people to accept a reality where they are "not worthy" of their ambitions. This reflects their worth as being less than their peers, which again leads to burnout. Ah, I did not expect this will turn into a debt. Now, I shall present my rebuttal. Lowing expectation is not giving up or accepting a “flawed” reality when facing adversary. It is a psychological adjustment we can use to rekindle and motivate ourselves to love what we are doing in the so called “secondary” program (I personally don’t consider programs in the second iteration as secondary.), instead of constantly wondering what life could have been like if we were in the program that was “worthy” of our ambitions. Perhaps I should use the term ‘adjusting’, instead of ‘lowering’ to avoid misunderstanding and the negative connotation. The same reality may mean different things to different interpreters. For instance, person_1 wanted specialty A but matched to specialty B. Person_2 wanted specialty B and matched to specialty B. The reality is the same, but their interpretation of whether it’s “worthy” or “not worthy” of their ambition might be wholly different. Having ambition is important, but it should not be limited to getting into a particular specialty or program. Our ultimate goal is to provide best care for our patients, and this ambition can be achieved via many ways. Whichever field we end up going to, there will be plenty of opportunities for us to achieve greatness and professional satisfaction. The most important factor is not the specialty or program that we are in. It is the state of our own minds. If we are capable of adjusting our expectation to meet reality, there isn’t much difference between people who matched in round 1 and people who matched in round 2. A match is a match. Simply put, take what you have, and make the best of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ah, I did not expect this will turn into a debt. Now, I shall present my rebuttal. Lowing expectation is not giving up or accepting a “flawed” reality when facing adversary. It is a psychological adjustment we can use to rekindle and motivate ourselves to love what we are doing in the so called “secondary” program (I personally don’t consider programs in the second iteration as secondary.), instead of constantly wondering what life could have been like if we were in the program that was “worthy” of our ambitions. Perhaps I should use the term ‘adjusting’, instead of ‘lowering’ to avoid misunderstanding and the negative connotation. The same reality may mean different things to different interpreters. For instance, person_1 wanted specialty A but matched to specialty B. Person_2 wanted specialty B and matched to specialty B. The reality is the same, but their interpretation of whether it’s “worthy” or “not worthy” of their ambition might be wholly different. Having ambition is important, but it should not be limited to getting into a particular specialty or program. Our ultimate goal is to provide best care for our patients, and this ambition can be achieved via many ways. Whichever field we end up going to, there will be plenty of opportunities for us to achieve greatness and professional satisfaction. The most important factor is not the specialty or program that we are in. It is the state of our own minds. If we are capable of adjusting our expectation to meet reality, there isn’t much difference between people who matched in round 1 and people who matched in round 2. A match is a match. Simply put, take what you have, and make the best of it. This is not true in practicality. People who don't match, or those that match in the second round, are stigmatized if they go back into the match. Accepting something one does not want is not adjusting expectations but giving up. We differ in our opinions here and there is no right answer. It looks like it was a pretty bad year for the match, and I just hope that not too many of these people let it define them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.