Should I Go To An Irish Medical School ( Advise Needed)

[Joe123]

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[_ _]

Do you want to be an engineer or a doctor? I would strongly advise against spending hundreds of thousands of dollars given that you are clearly not ready to be making that kind of decision. Go to university in Canada. Then apply to medicine if you want.

 

But don't go to Ireland. HUGE risk, low security of ever coming back to Canada (who knows what it'll be like in 6 years, but I'm guessing not better for foreign grads). Give yourself a chance in Canada.

[Neurophilic]

Don't go to Ireland unless you're planning on staying their to practice. I'm not understanding why you're giving up on Canadian medical schools so quickly. You've only done one semester and your GPA can still realistically be salvaged. Don't panic because of your first semester. Organize yourself, figure out a plan and pursue it.  

[ralk]

Try to avoid double posting.

 

In any case, the short answer is no, you shouldn't go to an Irish medical school and particularly not at this point in time given the information you've given. Going abroad for medicine is a risky path regardless, but you've got some other warning signs that it would be a bad idea. First, you seem to still be deciding what you actually want to do in life. That's a perfectly reasonable place to be in at your stage - I was a lot further along before I started to have any real sense of where I wanted to take my life - but trying to become a physician is a long road that requires a commitment that you don't seem to be ready for yet. Second, you're getting marks that are quite a ways away from being competitive for medical school in Canada. Again, that's not a huge problem, most people pick their marks up as university goes on, but it means you haven't yet shown you'd be able to handle the challenges of studying medicine or acquiring a residency program. That's a recipe for disaster, as your plans could quite easily fall through and you'd be left holding the bag.

 

Medicine might be a good choice for you in the future. For now, however, I don't think you're ready for it, and that makes an already risky option like studying in Ireland even more risky.

[_ _]

Don't go to Ireland unless you're planning on staying their to practice. I'm not understanding why you're giving up on Canadian medical schools so quickly. You've only done one semester and your GPA can still realistically be salvaged. Don't panic because of your first semester. Organize yourself, figure out a plan and pursue it.  

They're still in high school it seems....

[Fresh fry]

What ralk said.

 

Irish medical school is not pass/fail, it is actually quite difficult. If you have a 3.3 in part time studies it will be a very short and expensive lesson for you. It sounds like engineering is where your heart lies, medicine is not something you do as a consolation.

[Neurophilic]

They're still in high school it seems...

Ah you may be right 

[JohnGrisham]

They're still in high school it seems....

"I finished high school last year"

[_ _]

"I finished high school last year"

Opps, I see now. They did take 3 courses and got the 3.3

[Joe123]

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[Bambi]

You need to stay in Canada and do what we all do. You are looking for a shortcut, which does not exist. Let us say you go to Ireland, then what? Come back to Canada and driver for uber? You won't be able to practice or to pay off the huge debt you shall have accumulated. This is a very bad idea, all the more so at your stage of life. Grades from h.s. are useless in predicting your future academic success, as is taking 3 courses that perhaps did not interest you.

 

Rethink everything/

[medhope15]

The following is my opinion based on my life experience. I'm an older applicant with post-grad school and career experience and many friends who either went into MD straight out of undergrad, or a few years later, and others still who went the UK, Ireland, or Carib route.

First, of my say dozen friends who have somehow done the MD (here or abroad), all are now in residency or practicing in USA or Canada. Are there people who don't match? Of course. What have I heard from close friends? If you study hard and really work to get those clerkships in North America/network and do well on boards, you will land something in North America. Might not be downtown TO, might be Nevada or Alabama, but even if you did the whole thing in Canada there's still no guarantee that you will match in your city or program of choice or that you will find work in your location of choice.

So I wouldn't discount the idea.

Here are the facts: you are young with tons of time ahead, many people much older than you will change careers and go into medicine later in life; if you go abroad to a 5 or 6 year program, when you graduate here are the options -> you will be 6 years older with an MD, you might be able to match in USA or Canada, you might not match. Worst case scenario is you having an MD and not being able to return. You have options to try to match in other places in the world OR you can be 24 and start undergrad then and find something else to do. I honestly don't see the big deal. You could go through 4 years of UG in Canada then a 2 year Master's (many MD students do them nowadays to pass the time before re-applying) and STILL not get into Canada. So in this way you waste 4 or 6 years, not get in a couple of times in Canada and realize you may just as well have gone abroad for the same amount of time and received the MD degree you want.

That's my 2 cents based on my experience.

Many people will attack this way of thinking, and blame me for using weird anecdotal evidence, but really it is what it is. Just go after the program/career/life you want.If you're willing to make that happen somewhere else in the world, then go for it.

[uoit101]

I would only do this if you're a EU citizen.

Non-EU citizens aren't getting internships there anymore apparently...according to my UCD friend anyway. Double check that. In any case, i agree with what everyone else is saying. Try your luck in our continent first, even if that means doing a few years of undergrad. 

[Edict]

I wouldn't recommend going to Ireland if I were you, its not easy to come back, you have to go abroad with real dedication in order to make it happen. Also, think about spending 6 years in the same place, would you be happy there? 

 

To be perfectly honest if you have the funds, sure, but not something I would recommend if you are not rich. 

[older]

You should ask yourself whether you really want to study medicine. Issues with training and opportunities back in Canada and US are secondary if you don't even know whether you wnat to be a doctor. Medicine requires committment and hard work, and if your heart is not in it, you can easily take wrong turn and waste a year or more. While you are still young, it will be a costly mistake.

If you were just 1% short of getting to Engineering, can't you find  another Engineering program in Canada?  Perhaps there is one that will take you with your 86% and 3.3 GPA.

[JohnGrisham]

You should ask yourself whether you really want to study medicine. Issues with training and opportunities back in Canada and US are secondary if you don't even know whether you wnat to be a doctor. Medicine requires committment and hard work, and if your heart is not in it, you can easily take wrong turn and waste a year or more. While you are still young, it will be a costly mistake.

If you were just 1% short of getting to Engineering, can't you find  another Engineering program in Canada?  Perhaps there is one that will take you with your 86% and 3.3 GPA.

There are plenty that will take that average...not to mention, they only took 3 courses to get that 3.3. Simple to just take more courses next term, and then attempt to transfer with that. Should be pretty easy actually, since average required is usually lower to transfer in after doing courses, than straight from HS.

[indefatigable]

I think that engineering is a pretty demanding program with more than 5 courses usually per semester.  It is known to be difficult on GPAs, which would make medicine more difficult in the future, if that is something that really interests you.  The choice maybe shouldn't necessarily be dichotomy between engineering and medicine.  I think that not really knowing (all the reasons) why you want to do medicine is ok - I see younger people who start after equivalent 1st year university where I am studying here who started with less developed ideas on medicine, but with lots of potential (academic and otherwise), however lack of future opportunities is less ok.  If the graduates who want to go to north america are able to  (ie 90%+), I think it is worth considering.  Otherwise, maybe take a look at what other options are available and what you are finding difficult about your studies.  It's not the worst thing in the world to take time to yourself rather than affecting an academic record which really be there for the rest of your life.

[NLengr]

First, of my say dozen friends who have somehow done the MD (here or abroad), all are now in residency or practicing in USA or Canada. Are there people who don't match? Of course. What have I heard from close friends? If you study hard and really work to get those clerkships in North America/network and do well on boards, you will land something in North America. Might not be downtown TO, might be Nevada or Alabama, but even if you did the whole thing in Canada there's still no guarantee that you will match in your city or program of choice or that you will find work in your location of choice.

 

Things have been changing recently so past experiences of matching as an IMG may no longer apply.

1. There are now more US citizens studying medicine in the US. US programs will take those people preferentially.
2. There are more Canadian citizens studying abroad completing for the same or less available IMG places in Canada or the US (the majority of the spots are in the US).
3. The Canadian government has made changes to the number of statements of need it issues. Most specialties seem like they will see a decrease in the number of SONs issued. This could significantly reduce the amount of Canadians who would be able to pursue a residency in the US.

[Edict]

 

Things have been changing recently so past experiences of matching as an IMG may no longer apply.

1. There are now more US citizens studying medicine in the US. US programs will take those people preferentially.
2. There are more Canadian citizens studying abroad completing for the same or less available IMG places in Canada or the US (the majority of the spots are in the US).
3. The Canadian government has made changes to the number of statements of need it issues. Most specialties seem like they will see a decrease in the number of SONs issued. This could significantly reduce the amount of Canadians who would be able to pursue a residency in the US.

 

 

Ok I do have to raise an issue with the SONs. I don't believe the number of Canadians going abroad is still increasing significantly. It seems to me anecdotally, i don't have the facts to back this up, but a lot of Irish schools have reached their maximum limit in terms of class spots, I am hearing less and less of people going to the Caribbean, activity on Caribbean forums is dropping. Australia is still increasing enrollment but in terms of peak growth I think we are passing that stage. 

 

Right now, none of the SON limits have been breached in any specialty, the entire SON thing does increase risk but there is also no telling whether or not the Canadian government will increase the number of SONs it issues if there was to be more demand. Right now the rate limiting step in Canadians getting residency in the US is actually getting matched rather than SONs for most specialties.

 

I do believe things are getting harder than they used to be for sure to match back. Also anecdotally, I know of people who in my opinion seemed qualified in terms of stats but were not able to match back to Canada this year. With that being said however, I don't believe that truly qualified people (in terms of excelling in their studies, getting pubs having a strong resume) are actually ending up entirely unemployed. 

 

The only people I have seen not getting residency period have been those going to the Caribbean. It seems every year there is a new scare regarding internships for those in Ireland and Australia, and so I would be particularly cautious however its not an entire no go as I do believe both these countries are reasonable in the sense they do want to employ those IMGs who studied at their medical schools. 

[ralk]

Ok I do have to raise an issue with the SONs. I don't believe the number of Canadians going abroad is still increasing significantly. It seems to me anecdotally, i don't have the facts to back this up, but a lot of Irish schools have reached their maximum limit in terms of class spots, I am hearing less and less of people going to the Caribbean, activity on Caribbean forums is dropping. Australia is still increasing enrollment but in terms of peak growth I think we are passing that stage. 

 

Right now, none of the SON limits have been breached in any specialty, the entire SON thing does increase risk but there is also no telling whether or not the Canadian government will increase the number of SONs it issues if there was to be more demand. Right now the rate limiting step in Canadians getting residency in the US is actually getting matched rather than SONs for most specialties.

 

I do believe things are getting harder than they used to be for sure to match back. Also anecdotally, I know of people who in my opinion seemed qualified in terms of stats but were not able to match back to Canada this year. With that being said however, I don't believe that truly qualified people (in terms of excelling in their studies, getting pubs having a strong resume) are actually ending up entirely unemployed. 

 

The only people I have seen not getting residency period have been those going to the Caribbean. It seems every year there is a new scare regarding internships for those in Ireland and Australia, and so I would be particularly cautious however its not an entire no go as I do believe both these countries are reasonable in the sense they do want to employ those IMGs who studied at their medical schools. 

 

Good data on CSAs is lacking, but what information we have shows that the number has been steadily increasing lately. Could that have hit a plateau this year? Maybe, but I haven't seen anything (hard data or anecdotal) to corroborate that.

 

It's also pretty irrelevant when it comes to the SON discussion. Residency applications have a 4-year lag time on medical school admissions, and those admissions have been going up these past few years, so residency applications have a few more years of growth in them. SONs haven't been breached in the bigger specialties (I have heard of instances where they were broken in smaller specialties), but they've never had a chance to be breached - limits in larger specialties were first imposed for this cycle. If the trend in IM applicants continues, that specialty should easily hit its SON limit this cycle. Moving forward, the government has stated that it intends to decrease the number of SONs in most large fields, so there shouldn't be that much uncertainty. The SON limits (plus a reduction in those limits) are coming because of higher demand for SONs - the number of SON applications hitting the limit is a feature of their policy, not a bug. The SON may not be the rate-limiting step yet, but it should be very soon - likely next cycle if not this one for many specialties.

[JohnGrisham]

Not to mention the availability of zero statmenet of needs for some specialties(here's looking at you Ortho), so completely shutting off those as options unless you get h1b(which isn't always ideal if you have spouse for example as they can not work on your companion h-visa, unlike the j1 where they can work).

 

It will be interesting to see the data. I imagine that if all CSAs actually matched, then for sure there would not be enough SONs. Perhaps in the future as the SON levels drop, we may see more issue.

 

Also anecdotally many CSAs have posted that they are getting less interviews, and comments from PDs about being hesitant to interview them due to the SON issue(or rather their lack of understanding of it), so while it potentially may not get to the point of not being rate limited by SON- there could be confounding and simply exacerbate the actually interview step directly because of the SON limitations.

[JohnGrisham]

USMD and USDO friends have not felt any less interviews or any remarks thus far, partly because they can simply go on the f1-opti visa as a backup in case something happened at the SON step. So programs wouldn't have reason to worry about them matching and not getting a visa like CSA/IMGs

[PreMed2014]

Hi,

 

I finished high school last year with 86%. I was planning to go into engineering, but the minimum average for admittance was 87%, so I was rejected. I also applied to NUIG 6 year medicine program in Galway in which I was admitted. However, I paid the money and deferred my acceptance to this year. I wanted to try again for engineering, by going to university and getting a cumulative GPA average of 3.8 in 6  subjects. However, my GPA in the last semester was 3.30 in the 3 subjects I took . It seems like I will not be able to enter engineering this year again.

 

Do you think it is a good idea to go to the Galway medical program? Any experience with Irish medical schools? It seems like a good idea. Its only 6 years to become a doctor.  However, I will be in at least 300 K $ debt. What do you think?

 

Thanks for your advise!!

 

 

Don't go into medicine unless you have a true interest and passion for it. Many people who end up going into medicine for the money turn out miserable, burnt out and depressed.  It seems like engineering is what you're really interested in, so don't give up on that. However, if I'm mistaken and you're passionate about medicine as well, at least finish your third undergrad year, write the MCAT, do all you can to have a great application overall, and apply to some Canadian schools. Going to a Canadian medical school is not only cheaper, but your job security is much higher. Going to a foreign medical school should be a last resort (e.g your grades and application are fine but 4 or 5 cycles you've been rejected without/after interviews). Things like that do happen a lot. Plenty of qualified applicants don't get in and go to another country but many don't end up coming back. Ireland is actually my backup option but I have EU citizenship so I would likely stay there to practice.  

 

 

It just sounds like you're thinking far too ahead honestly. You've only done one semester, 3.3 isn't horrible and you can certainly improve in the upcoming semesters. Plenty of people, especially first year students who are new to the university life, don't do as well as they would have liked their first year. It's not the end of the world, good luck. 

[a1b1]

Do you think it is a good idea to go to the Galway medical program? Any experience with Irish medical schools? It seems like a good idea. Its only 6 years to become a doctor.  However, I will be in at least 300 K $ debt. What do you think?

 

No

[older]

If you bother to answer at all,  stating the reasons would be helpful.  No means nothing.