Gpa Vs. Cars Balance

[medway12]

Hi all,

 

Given that Mac weighs an applicant's GPA and CARS score equally (33.33% each), how high should an applicant score to offset a lower GPA? (assuming Casper performance is average among those interviewed)

 

Personally, I have a 3.29 cGPA from a competitive program with a strict grading curve (not engineering) . I simply wasn't passionate about the subject at times and unsure about what I really wanted to do after.

 

What is the lowest cGPA that you have seen from an applicant invited to interview? I reason that if GPA and CARS are equally weighted, then they are pretty much interchangeable variables as far as interview invites go. If someone with a 3.8 cGPA and a 9 on the old VR could get an interview then couldn't another person with a 3.0 and a 13 or 14 on the old VR have similar odds of getting an invite?

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[phoenixfire]

Lowest I've seen is 3.31 and was just posted on the Invite/Regret topic: http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/88674-mcmaster-interview-invitesregrets-2016/page-2

[indefatigable]

This came up last year in discussion.  I think the theory was that both gpa and Cars/verbal are based on Z-scores.  However, (if I recall correctly), the standard deviation for gpa was much smaller, so effectively having a lower gpa is less offset by a higher cars score (and/or maybe higher avg gpa - affecting lower gpa s more).  That being said, there seem to a handful of <3.5 gpa that manage to get interviews and be accepted - although I am supposing their Cars/verbal scores must be very high.

[Edict]

My guess is something along the lines of a 12+ verbal (13+ would be a bit more realistic) might offset a 3.29 cGPA, but again this would have to be paired with a great CASPer as well. 

 

Mac is very simple in the sense that there isn't that much subjectivity in the process, essentially everything that Mac uses in its pre-interview process is numbers based. I do think VR scales faster than GPA, a 3.3 GPA is low no doubt but a 13+ verbal would be what you are looking for. Without knowing your CASPer scores it definitely is worth it to apply with a 12 verbal. 

[MacMed2018]

Hi all,

 

Given that Mac weighs an applicant's GPA and CARS score equally (33.33% each), how high should an applicant score to offset a lower GPA? (assuming Casper performance is average among those interviewed)

 

Personally, I have a 3.29 cGPA from a competitive program with a strict grading curve (not engineering) . I simply wasn't passionate about the subject at times and unsure about what I really wanted to do after.

 

What is the lowest cGPA that you have seen from an applicant invited to interview? I reason that if GPA and CARS are equally weighted, then they are pretty much interchangeable variables as far as interview invites go. If someone with a 3.8 cGPA and a 9 on the old VR could get an interview then couldn't another person with a 3.0 and a 13 or 14 on the old VR have similar odds of getting an invite?

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

I know of someone who got in to the MD program at Mac with a 3.2 ish GPA and a slightly below average VR score.   Needless to say, their other components (CASPer and interview) had to have been flawless! 

[indefatigable]

I know of someone who got in to the MD program at Mac with a 3.2 ish GPA and a slightly below average VR score.   Needless to say, their other components (CASPer and interview) had to have been flawless! 

 

I'm happy for your acquaintance who was accepted with much lower stats.  But I wonder if it's possible that your acquaintance was in a separate stream i.e. aboriginal, since 3.2ish is really quite a bit lower.  From what I remember seeing, Mac only accepts about 5 people a year with gpa < 3.5 - these people (if not aboriginal) would probably have to have higher cars AND casper, to even make it to the interview stage.  However, I'm not sure if Mac's overall admission stats includes the special (aboriginal) admission stream. 

[medway12]

[removed]

[medway12]

I'm happy for your acquaintance who was accepted with much lower stats.  But I wonder if it's possible that your acquaintance was in a separate stream i.e. aboriginal, since 3.2ish is really quite a bit lower.  From what I remember seeing, Mac only accepts about 5 people a year with gpa < 3.5 - these people (if not aboriginal) would probably have to have higher cars AND casper, to even make it to the interview stage.  However, I'm not sure if Mac's overall admission stats includes the special (aboriginal) admission stream. 

 

Mac does have special consideration for Aboriginal applicants. I'm curious to know as well whether the applicant you mentioned was in that stream.

[MacMed2018]

I'm happy for your acquaintance who was accepted with much lower stats.  But I wonder if it's possible that your acquaintance was in a separate stream i.e. aboriginal, since 3.2ish is really quite a bit lower.  From what I remember seeing, Mac only accepts about 5 people a year with gpa < 3.5 - these people (if not aboriginal) would probably have to have higher cars AND casper, to even make it to the interview stage.  However, I'm not sure if Mac's overall admission stats includes the special (aboriginal) admission stream. 

 

No, just from the regular pool.

[midi]

My guess is something along the lines of a 12+ verbal (13+ would be a bit more realistic) might offset a 3.29 cGPA, but again this would have to be paired with a great CASPer as well. 

 

Mac is very simple in the sense that there isn't that much subjectivity in the process, essentially everything that Mac uses in its pre-interview process is numbers based. I do think VR scales faster than GPA, a 3.3 GPA is low no doubt but a 13+ verbal would be what you are looking for. Without knowing your CASPer scores it definitely is worth it to apply with a 12 verbal. 

>Not much subjectivity

>Casper

 

Choose one

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

.

[medway12]

>Not much subjectivity

>Casper

 

Choose one

 

Think of it this way:

 

Regular application: The committee subjectively evaluates your autobiographical sketch while most likely knowing about the rest of your application (GPA, MCAT, etc).

 

Casper: The marker subjectively evaluates your answers without knowing about the rest of your application.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. Just my thought.

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

Think of it this way:

 

Regular application: The committee subjectively evaluates your autobiographical sketch while most likely knowing about the rest of your application (GPA, MCAT, etc).

 

Casper: The marker subjectively evaluates your answers without knowing about the rest of your application.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. Just my thought.

The first one isn't necessarily true. At Toronto you have two independent reviewers for references, abs, and essays (6 total) with no knowledge of other components of your application. Getting more than one person to read each component allows for more objective marking, misunderstandings to be resolved, etc.

 

For Casper you get one marker per station (12 total). Your chances could be ruined if one guy was feeling cranky and decided to give you a bad mark.

[PurpleS]

For Casper you get one marker per station (12 total). Your chances could be ruined if one guy was feeling cranky and decided to give you a bad mark.

 

This is not true. Multiple people mark the same station for the CASPer and the scores are averaged. There are also safeguards within the review process to ensure the graders give fair and accurate ratings for each answer.

[Organomegaly]

This is not true. Multiple people mark the same station for the CASPer and the scores are averaged. There are also safeguards within the review process to ensure the graders give fair and accurate ratings for each answer.

 

 

 

its also far more efficient to increase reliability by upping the number of samples than by increasing the number of raters per sample 

[Edict]

>Not much subjectivity

>Casper

 

Choose one

 

 

You got me lol. I guess i was thinking of during the actual file review process, Mac isn't very subjective compared to most other schools that look at ECs and essays. Even though you personally don't know your CASPer score you do get an actual score so its really just a numbers mashing at that point. 

[Edict]

The first one isn't necessarily true. At Toronto you have two independent reviewers for references, abs, and essays (6 total) with no knowledge of other components of your application. Getting more than one person to read each component allows for more objective marking, misunderstandings to be resolved, etc.

 

For Casper you get one marker per station (12 total). Your chances could be ruined if one guy was feeling cranky and decided to give you a bad mark.

 

Bluespirit is right in that for CASPer you get multiple markers, I'm not 100% on this but I think there are 10 markers for each of your questions and they are different people.

 

As markers we are given one question at a time, and we essentially mark however many we can, so you can mark around 20 answers on the same question from 20 different people at a time. If you come back to it they usually give you a different question and you mark as many answers as you can for that question. So overall your CASPer score has probably been marked by up to 120 people. No one individual can really influence the process. Every question is probably going to be marked by 10 different markers who also are probably not going to be marking any of your other questions on CASPer.  

[Organomegaly]

Bluespirit is right in that for CASPer you get multiple markers, I'm not 100% on this but I think there are 10 markers for each of your questions and they are different people.

 

 

120 people do not mark your casper

 

its 12. one per station, probably with a few extra for some stations to assess inter-rater reliability 

[Organomegaly]

and another note: even with 12 people marking it the reliability offered by casper is still better than any other pre-interview assessment tool. 

 

the validity is another conversation. 

[Edict]

120 people do not mark your casper

 

its 12. one per station, probably with a few extra for some stations to assess inter-rater reliability 

 

Do you happen to know where you got this from? I'm just curious. 

[Neurophilic]

and another note: even with 12 people marking it the reliability offered by casper is still better than any other pre-interview assessment tool. 

 

the validity is another conversation. 

I'm not familiar with the specific studies but have they shown that the validity is significantly better than other pre-interview assessment tools?

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

I'm not familiar with the specific studies but have they shown that the validity is significantly better than other pre-interview assessment tools?

Dore KL, Reiter HI, Eva KW, Krueger S, Scriven E, Siu E, Hilsden S, Thomas J, Norman GR. Extending the interview to all medical school candidates - Computer-Based Multiple Sample Evaluation of Noncognitive Skills (CMENS). Acad Med 84(10 Suppl):S9-12, 2009.

 

This reference indicates that it correlates to MMI (in addition to overall MCAT, verbal, and the writing sample). To my knowledge there aren't studies which show that CASPER correlates with success in medical schools or the step exams.

[Neurophilic]

 

Dore KL, Reiter HI, Eva KW, Krueger S, Scriven E, Siu E, Hilsden S, Thomas J, Norman GR. Extending the interview to all medical school candidates - Computer-Based Multiple Sample Evaluation of Noncognitive Skills (CMENS). Acad Med 84(10 Suppl):S9-12, 2009.

 

This reference indicates that it correlates to MMI (in addition to overall MCAT, verbal, and the writing sample). To my knowledge there aren't studies which show that CASPER correlates with success in medical schools or the step exams.

 

Thanks

[Organomegaly]

Do you happen to know where you got this from? I'm just curious. 

 

 

ill tell you in PM 

[Organomegaly]

Thanks

 

 

haha well there couldn't have been,

 

casper was released around that same year. it takes years to gather that sort of data.

 

might want to watch out for more recent pubs