2017 Carms Match Results!

[indefatigable]

More so realizing that they dont want a bunch of subspecialist IMs attempting to return to Canada. Only so much need for cardiologists etc.  FM there is a "need" weather or not the redistribution is done, is another story.  

 

Yeah - looks like IM is hitting the SON cap, which is decreasing a little.  But it looks like an US trained IM doc can still participate in Canadian medical subspecialty match, at least in Ontario.  

[ralk]

What does it mean if you interviewed at a program, didn't match and that program still has a spot left? They didn't even rank you at all?

 

Unless the spot left open was from the other stream (CMG vs IMG) that you applied through, then yes, and open spot in a program you ranked means that you were not on their rank order list.

[Tacrolimus]

What does it mean if you interviewed at a program, didn't match and that program still has a spot left? They didn't even rank you at all?

 

Yes, they did not rank you.

 

But how do you know it wasn't an IMG spot that is left? 

 

EDIT: Yeah, what ralk said. 

[bentobox1234]

Glad to hear some good news from Dal and Alberta. (And Queen's and Western) 

[ChemPetE]

Rad onc has one of the worst job markets of any medical specialty in the US, due to excess of residents (many from new training programs) relative to job openings there.  Even rural jobs can be hard to get.

Fortunately Canada is opening up. But that is certainly a concern that will need to be addressed in the US in the coming years for sure.

[LittleDaisy]

I would be surprised if they did not rank you for FM as a CMG, perhaps you applied to competitive FM programs in desirable locations only??

Perhaps the spots left over for FM are IMG spots, you could actually call CaRMS and find out. On the PDF document, some of the FM spots are marked with an asterisk (*), I wonder if those spots are for IMGs initially.

Anyhow, for the 2nd iteration, as a CMG, you could apply to all the spots. From my understanding, the PD still prefer CMGs over IMGs.

Do your best and I hope that you will be matched!!!

Unless the spot left open was from the other stream (CMG vs IMG) that you applied through, then yes, and open spot in a program you ranked means that you were not on their rank order list.

[NLengr]

Unless the spot left open was from the other stream (CMG vs IMG) that you applied through, then yes, and open spot in a program you ranked means that you were not on their rank order list.

For the derm and uro spots that are left, it's a fairly safe assumption that those are the IMG spots which were left unfilled.

[rmorelan]

For the derm and uro spots that are left, it's a fairly safe assumption that those are the IMG spots which were left unfilled.

 

seems extremely likely. 

[shikimate]

Someone said UWO had 15 unmatched in first round this year, although I haven't heard from a second source.

 

Seriously we need to tell our M2 to study USMLE step 1

[JohnGrisham]

Someone said UWO had 15 unmatched in first round this year, although I haven't heard from a second source.

 

Seriously we need to tell our M2 to study USMLE step 1

Not really. Match rates are still very high, and many people will scoop up spots in Round 2. 

 

 

BUT one thing i will say is - there are always a disproportionate number of spots left in quebec, which i presume are usually french-speaking only. 

 

I wonder how many who attend the french speaking schools end up going to english speaking residency programs?  I imagine more than the number of students who go from english speaking schools into quebec residencies outside of the english centres.  I have no data to back this up though.

 

 

EDIT: A quick ratio with 2016 data on medical student seats to residency spots.  

 

http://oi65.tinypic.com/33ettn4.jpg

 

Does seem like at least on the surface, the french schools have lower ratios of the number of residency spots compared to number of students they pump out. Given mobility, it would seem to be a fair statement above(without actual data on where students from a given school match).

[ralk]

Someone said UWO had 15 unmatched in first round this year, although I haven't heard from a second source.

 

Seriously we need to tell our M2 to study USMLE step 1

 

The word I got was less than 10 for this year, though thinking about it, that person's phrasing may have misled me a bit.

 

Edit - Confirmed, got ambiguous information and now being told that the number is closer to 15 than 10.

[rmorelan]

Not really. Match rates are still very high, and many people will scoop up spots in Round 2. 

 

 

BUT one thing i will say is - there are always a disproportionate number of spots left in quebec, which i presume are usually french-speaking only. 

 

I wonder how many who attend the french speaking schools end up going to english speaking residency programs?  I imagine more than the number of students who go from english speaking schools into quebec residencies outside of the english centres.  I have no data to back this up though.

 

you are correct - and in part this is because you are simply more likely to be bilingual if you are from Quebec than bilingual if you are from pretty much anywhere else in the country. By going to an english program you potentially now can work anywhere in the country having training in both languages, and the pay for those residency positions is higher. 

 

Usually almost 1/2 of the second round spots in are in quebec give or take. 

[indefatigable]

Not really. Match rates are still very high, and many people will scoop up spots in Round 2. 

 

 

BUT one thing i will say is - there are always a disproportionate number of spots left in quebec, which i presume are usually french-speaking only. 

 

I wonder how many who attend the french speaking schools end up going to english speaking residency programs?  I imagine more than the number of students who go from english speaking schools into quebec residencies outside of the english centres.  I have no data to back this up though.

 

 

EDIT: A quick ratio with 2016 data on medical student seats to residency spots.  

 

http://oi65.tinypic.com/33ettn4.jpg

 

Does seem like at least on the surface, the french schools have lower ratios of the number of students they pump out, compared to residency spots. Given mobility, it would seem to be a fair statement above(without actual data on where students from a given school match).

 

I looked into this (from the CaRMS matching data).  I categorized schools as anglophone, francophone and mixed (McGill and Ottawa).  The movement from anglophone to francophone is very small (outside McGill) - maybe 1 or 2.  From francophone to anglophone, the numbers are still small (despite higher levels of bilingualism among francophones) - maybe about 10 to 20 a year (across all 3 French faculties).  The movement from University of Montreal to McGill is substantial, though (makes sense given language dynamics of Montreal).  But the term bilingualism is a little misleading - since it's really a continuum of linguistic competence rather than a threshold.

 

I've heard the the new conservative party leader candidates do show a broad spectrum of French ability and that it's even become an issue.

[JohnGrisham]

I looked into this (from the CaRMS matching data).  I categorized schools as anglophone, francophone and mixed (McGill and Ottawa).  The movement from anglophone to francophone is very small (outside McGill) - maybe 1 or 2.  From francophone to anglophone, the numbers are still small (despite higher levels of bilingualism among francophones) - maybe about 10 to 20 a year (across all 3 French faculties).  The movement from University of Montreal to McGill is substantial, though (makes sense given language dynamics of Montreal).  But the term bilingualism is a little misleading - since it's really a continuum of linguistic competence rather than a threshold.

 

I've heard the the new conservative party leader candidates do show a broad spectrum of French ability and that it's even become an issue.

You're very right, didnt realize this data was there:

 

http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_29_Match_Results_by_School_of_Graduation_English.pdf

 

I don't know anything about McGill - are most of their residency spots english speaking and thus fair game for rest of the english speaking schools? Or are they "english" but with the understanding that you probably should learn some french for the patient population?

[indefatigable]

You're very right, didnt realize this data was there:

 

http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_29_Match_Results_by_School_of_Graduation_English.pdf

 

I don't know anything about McGill - are most of their residency spots english speaking and thus fair game for rest of the english speaking schools? Or are they "english" but with the understanding that you probably should learn some french for the patient population?

 

I think it's a tricky issue (along the lines you suggest), a little vague and program dependent.  I don't have any further insight - the individual programs might give more info, though.

[JohnGrisham]

For those that are involved in the residency interview process, have you noticed if schools are interviewing more people then they have in the past, say 5 years ago? In order to line up with applicants who seem to be applying broader and broader.

Looking at CarMS data it seems that over the last decade, applicants are applying to far more programs. Likely as a symptom of school advisors drilling into students that they should be applying broadly.  Anecdotally i hear from seniors in programs like IM, people commonly don't receive interviews at programs they did aways at, etc etc.  Could there be an issue of over-applications? 

i.e. Student A, who is fairly competitive, in the past would have only applied to 3 out of 10 programs, knowing that they will likely get top 3, and not feeling a need to apply to more.  Gets 3 interviews.

Student B, slightly less competitive but still solid, applies more broadly, to 7 out of 10 programs, gets 5 interviews. 

Potential current situation:
Student A, applies to 10/10 programs, gets 8 interviews. Imagine there are many other Student A's, and thus less interview slots for Student B. 

In theory, if the less desirable programs to student A only interviewed people like A, they'd miss out on Student B.    Given there is a round 2, those programs would then be able to pick up Student B, so perhaps this hypothetical is a moot point.  

Lots of hypotheticals and assumptions.  It just seems logical that there is a finite number of interview spots, and that there could be issues on the extremes.

[ChemPetE]

I think that is more or less the case. I posted a similar discussion on another thread a few weeks ago. I think it will bear out in the statistics.

[indefatigable]

Unless Student B was gunning for FM, there's really nothing consistently left over in round 2.  Possibly Student As are applying more broadly for specialties and backing up broadly in say, FM?  In that case FM interview slots are being used up by Student As, leaving out Student Bs.  But the unmatched students seem to have been gunning for more competitive specialties - so possibly they're getting squeezed out.  I don't even see how one would separate the two cases in the match results - a broader trans-Canadian matching pattern for specialties?    

[bentobox1234]

For those that are involved in the residency interview process, have you noticed if schools are interviewing more people then they have in the past, say 5 years ago? In order to line up with applicants who seem to be applying broader and broader.

 

Looking at CarMS data it seems that over the last decade, applicants are applying to far more programs. Likely as a symptom of school advisors drilling into students that they should be applying broadly.  Anecdotally i hear from seniors in programs like IM, people commonly don't receive interviews at programs they did aways at, etc etc.  Could there be an issue of over-applications? 

 

i.e. Student A, who is fairly competitive, in the past would have only applied to 3 out of 10 programs, knowing that they will likely get top 3, and not feeling a need to apply to more.  Gets 3 interviews.

 

Student B, slightly less competitive but still solid, applies more broadly, to 7 out of 10 programs, gets 5 interviews. 

 

Potential current situation:

Student A, applies to 10/10 programs, gets 8 interviews. Imagine there are many other Student A's, and thus less interview slots for Student B. 

 

In theory, if the less desirable programs to student A only interviewed people like A, they'd miss out on Student B.    Given there is a round 2, those programs would then be able to pick up Student B, so perhaps this hypothetical is a moot point.  

 

Lots of hypotheticals and assumptions.  It just seems logical that there is a finite number of interview spots, and that there could be issues on the extremes.

I heard some programs opened up extra interview dates to accomodate for more applicants. I also heard that a program (that traditionally interviews everyone) had to decline interviewing 25% of applicants for the first time. 

[ralk]

Yeah, if you go back through the match stats here, it's pretty clear the number of applications per person is on the rise. Some of that is likely just the expansion of satellite programs in FM which would skew the numbers without affecting interviews (eg I had 4 interviews, but ranked 13 programs, which I doubt would be possible even 10 years ago). Still, as the match gets tighter and the "apply broadly" mantra gets stronger, it's hard to imagine that candidates aren't trying for more interviews than before.

[LittleDaisy]

Hey guys, as someone from French-speaking medical school in Quebec.I would like to jump in here!

For McGill residency programs, it depends really on your program. If you are interested in  Family & Internal& Psychiatry (i.e: Primary care), I think that some basic French is required. A lot of Francophone speaking patients do expect to receive their medical care in French. During your residency interviews, the staff will ask you questions in French, to know if you have some basic foundation of French. I think that they key is to show that you are willing to learn a new language. However, if you are applying to radiology, more surgical specialties, you can get by without any prior knowledge of French before starting residency.

 

A lot of UdeMontreal students do go to McGill for residency (30+ or more per year), I personally won't call it a move to ''English Canada''. McGill is a Quebec Medical School, being in the same city and for our bilingual colleagues, it is actually pretty convenient. Also, in Quebec, we do have a ''PREM'' and ''PEM'' system, that only allows Quebec graduating physicians to get jobs in Quebec, and I do believe that the majority of my fellow colleagues do intend to stay in Quebec for their career.

 

TLDR: only a few students in Quebec French med schools (10-20 per year) go to English Canada for residency. Most of the time, because they did their undergrad in English Canada or have family in English Canada. McGill is a different story. Also, in French schools, our faculties restrict the number of electives we could take in the same discipline (i.e: no more than 3 electives in ENT), and the number of electives one could do OUTSIDE of province. In essence, you will less likely to see a medical student from Quebec doing elective elsewhere in Canada. Onsite electives do matter for CaRMS!

 

You're very right, didnt realize this data was there:

http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_29_Match_Results_by_School_of_Graduation_English.pdf

I don't know anything about McGill - are most of their residency spots english speaking and thus fair game for rest of the english speaking schools? Or are they "english" but with the understanding that you probably should learn some french for the patient population?

[Candiens12]

Unfortunately for a lot of specialities I don't think students can afford to be "student b".

[uwopremed]

Someone said UWO had 15 unmatched in first round this year, although I haven't heard from a second source.

 

Seriously we need to tell our M2 to study USMLE step 1

 

AT Western, the faculty contacts all the unmatched promptly (within an hour of the match).  The number I heard was 15 here - though it was higher at some places such as McMaster (21 last i heard).  What was interesting this year is when the unmatched all met to talk with the faculty how to cope - a disproportionate number were actually relatively normal and good medical students.  The crazies and red flagged that often populate the unmatched actually mostly matched this year. So not matching is not something to be ashamed about - many are in fact good students that were just unlucky or didn't strategically plan their electives.

[bentobox1234]

What was interesting this year is when the unmatched all met to talk with the faculty how to cope - a disproportionate number were actually relatively normal and good medical students.  The crazies and red flagged that often populate the unmatched actually mostly matched this year. So not matching is not something to be ashamed about - many are in fact good students that were just unlucky or didn't strategically plan their electives.

The stigma around unmatched applicants is really unfortunate. I hope it goes down as there is a trend towards more and more applicants going unmatched in the first round. 

[Lactic Folly]

If you subsequently match in the second round, only those familiar with your situation would know that you hadn't matched in the first round.

The stigma is more a problem for good candidates seeking to reapply to CaRMS the year after.