Lying on CaRMS Personal Letter

[Anon_1234asdf]

. . . . . . 

[Samic1988]

File review has not yet begun, how come your friend has access to PS and more over has already started reviewing it?

[Bambi]

Your friend should ignore his request and give him no feedback whatsoever. I consider it highly doubtful this unethical approach will give the applicant a material advantage in the application process. There are more important moving parts over which the applicant has no control. His performance and actual behaviour will speak louder than any words and the truth shall win. 

[Bluberblubo]

4 hours ago, Samic1988 said:

File review has not yet begun, how come your friend has access to PS and more over has already started reviewing it?

He doesn't have access to the file, the poster said the resident was asked to read the PS to give feedback on it...

I agree with Bambi, your friend should ignore the request and give no feedback. That being said I disagree with Bambi that 

20 minutes ago, Bambi said:

I consider it highly doubtful this unethical approach will give the applicant a material advantage in the application process. There are more important moving parts over which the applicant has no control. His performance and actual behaviour will speak louder than any words and the truth shall win. 

There are so many people that I know that are perpetual liars and still manage to get ahead. The truth doesn't always win and we don't live in a just world. Some will lie and get ahead and some will lie and get caught. Best advice is to stick to whatever moral principles you believe in and do the best you can to be the best doctor you can be while trying to maintain a balanced life and staying happy. Also, I'm someone who has emailed PDs (twice) when I came across a situation similar to this. If you want you can use an anonymous email. Whatever the PDs decide to do with that information is up to them. On both occasions when I've reached out to PDs with an issue like this, I didn't receive a response and in one of the two instances I know the person still ended up matching to the program they applied to and everyone hated them, but in my mind I did what I thought was right and c'est la vie

[HoopDreams]

8 hours ago, Anon_1234asdf said:

I just needed to get this off my chest. I am a resident and my fellow resident recently read an applicant's personal letter to give feedback on. They felt very uncomfortable giving feedback because it was full of lies. The applicant talks about the impact of slavery causing hardship on his life which cannot be further from the truth. I know he grew up in a very affluent family and I've heard through the grapevine that one of his parents is a high profile physician. Furthermore, this applicant is someone who has been known to tell lies to get ahead in life and has been caught before. 

My program director has dealt with similar situations before and does not take it lightly. This applicant is a repeat applicant applying to a highly competitive specialty (different from mine) and he is trying to gain an advantage by claiming hardships he did not face. I feel very conflicted, what should I do? what advice should I give my friend who read his letter? 

The challenge is to balance two elements  :

1. Not be associated with a potentially fraudulent letter ;
2. Not make judgements off rumors, impressions and appearances 

Because of the delicate nature of the allegations, I think @Bambi's advice is on point.

• Decline to review the statement
• Write a message to the PD that still raises a flag that allows the PD to make his own enquiry about that matter

In essence, the PD will then answer the main questions that matters in a residency application :

• Is this candidate compatible with the residency program and do they have the ability and values to perform and excel in residency
• Is his alleged narrative about slavery true, relevant and does it add any value to his application for a residency spot

I would simply be careful about the wording in the message to the PD.
It seems like you have not directly read the letter yourself and don't know for sure his familial situation in depth.
Rumors are always thrown around in medicine because of jealousy, competition and personal vendettas.
Both the claims that he comes from an affluent family and that he suffered from the impacts of slavery are had to prove.
Although it seems unlikely, both claims are not completely irreconcilable as it seems that the person is not a very close personal friend of yours.
And even if they are completely true, what matters is what he made out of it and to assess if that makes him a better candidate for residency.
 

[shikimate]

I agree that your friend should decline to give feedback. If he wish to be polite he may write something like "I am unable to provide meaningful feedback due to uncertainty regarding your background history as described in the PS".

Writing to PD is tricky because the applicant has not summited the actual letter and you are not sure exactly which claims in the letter are true, which claims are equivocal, and which claims are false. If you strongly wish to write to PD. I would word it as "certain claims within this applicant's personal statement may require further verification with independent sources". Ultimately the onus is on the program/university.

[RealTalk101]

These are pretty big claims to make based on a personal letter you never read from someone it seems you don’t even know very well (“heard through the grapevine”). If your friend feels uncomfortable providing feedback, they probably shouldn’t. Seems like a pretty simple Casper question answer.

The claims you are making about this applicant lying about slavery to get ahead in life, coming from an affluent family and a high profile physician parent seem to be things you don’t even know certainly. In any other professional setting this type of post on a forum would be so ridiculous. I’m not saying people don’t lie to get ahead in life but it always comes back to bite them in the ass. It’s not your responsibility to handle things based on non-concrete evidence. If anything, it makes you look bad! 

On a related note, in the case that this person isn’t lying and you don’t know their whole story, it’s actually racist to imply that somebody can’t have had past trauma, including generational trauma, and get ahead in life. Not sure if you are implying they are “affluent” because they have money, but I do know that we can’t judge people based on your perceived image of them, and that you don’t know people’s stories and lived experiences. 

I think you should be careful about what you say and imply, as it can have repercussions on you too. People will get theirs, just worry about yourself.  

[DoctorArts]

In order to support diversity initiatives, particularly ones which give some level of correct or consideration of hardship, liars must suffer consequences. Whether you, or a program director, have the bandwidth to get involved is different, and I don't blame you if you don't. Medicine is demanding and these battles can be difficult. However, the disgust and jealousy sent towards people who have these experiences is repugnant. To steal the experiences and trauma of a person who may not be applying, but does exist somewhere in the world, is unbecoming of being a human being, let alone a doctor who should have the intellectual capacity to develop a personal ethical framework.

I have felt, and other people I know who have diverse experiences, that we are somehow cheating if we bring up our hardships. This feeling is not from the inside out, it is from the outside in. While I cannot prove that specific people feel this way, I know in my gut that it exists, and stories like this offer proof. The default expectation of our personal histories is that we come from privilege in every way - this is not malicious, this is merely statistical probability (look at AFMC to see how many people have family incomes in the top ranges). It is our right to apply to programs as ourselves, with the details that we feel are relevant. It is nobody's right to steal my or others' personal narratives, and I hope that our medical culture can find the courage to accept that we are all on the same side. Except this guy. I am definitely not on his side.

[DoctorArts]

4 minutes ago, RealTalk101 said:

These are pretty big claims to make based on a personal letter you never read from someone it seems you don’t even know very well (“heard through the grapevine”). If your friend feels uncomfortable providing feedback, they probably shouldn’t. Seems like a pretty simple Casper question answer.

The claims you are making about this applicant lying about slavery to get ahead in life, coming from an affluent family and a high profile physician parent seem to be things you don’t even know certainly. In any other professional setting this type of post on a forum would be so ridiculous. I’m not saying people don’t lie to get ahead in life but it always comes back to bite them in the ass. It’s not your responsibility to handle things based on non-concrete evidence. If anything, it makes you look bad! 

On a related note, in the case that this person isn’t lying and you don’t know their whole story, it’s actually racist to imply that somebody can’t have had past trauma, including generational trauma, and get ahead in life. Not sure if you are implying they are “affluent” because they have money, but I do know that we can’t judge people based on your perceived image of them, and that you don’t know people’s stories and lived experiences. 

I think you should be careful about what you say and imply, as it can have repercussions on you too. People will get theirs, just worry about yourself.  

I will say that this post makes great points. My post relies on the assumption that he is making up a story, which certainly has happened in medical school and residence applicants. So perhaps not "this guy" but liars are who I am not for. 

[RealTalk101]

48 minutes ago, DoctorArts said:

I will say that this post makes great points. My post relies on the assumption that he is making up a story, which certainly has happened in medical school and residence applicants. So perhaps not "this guy" but liars are who I am not for. 

I totally agree. I am also firmly against liars. I would just be careful of robbing this applicant of their own truth if they really were impacted by slavery. Maybe they also felt the need to “tone down” their adversity because it doesn’t sit well with the privileged community. And as a result people have this perceived image of a “great life” unaffected by hardships. The idea that this person having a platform to bring forward their own experiences in the form of a personal letter and then having people who don’t even know their story say it’s not true does not sit well with me. If the applicant really did lie and make all of it up then shame on them, that is disgusting. But somehow I feel that there’s more to the story. 

[Anon_1234asdf]

Thanks for the comments. It's fair to say that I should not be making any assumptions. I connected with my friend to conduct some research and verify as much information as we could. We found various factual inconsistencies in the claims made in his personal statement. As a queer person, I understand what it's like to be in a marginalized group and it saddens me to see someone make false claims about the hardships they have faced just to get ahead. 

Based on everyone's comments, I think it would be reasonable to consider escalating this. 

[RealTalk101]

31 minutes ago, Anon_1234asdf said:

Thanks for the comments. It's fair to say that I should not be making any assumptions. I connected with my friend to conduct some research and verify as much information as we could. We found various factual inconsistencies in the claims made in his personal statement. As a queer person, I understand what it's like to be in a marginalized group and it saddens me to see someone make false claims about the hardships they have faced just to get ahead. 

Based on everyone's comments, I think it would be reasonable to consider escalating this. 

Before escalating the situation and potentially ruining someone's career, I think it would be prudent to politely contact them through your friend and ask them politely to explain the inconsistencies so you may fully understand the situation. This is also common courtesy.

[RandomIntrandom]

This is a malicious post to be making before Carms deadline as it provides a lot of information that can be used to identify the alleged person involved.

The story itself doesn’t make any sense. I get the feeling it was directed to cause undue stress right before the carms deadline. If I was the original poster, I would be more worried putting a strong application forward rather than unfairly targeting others  

[Samic1988]

12 hours ago, RandomIntrandom said:

This is a malicious post to be making before Carms deadline as it provides a lot of information that can be used to identify the alleged person involved.

The story itself doesn’t make any sense. I get the feeling it was directed to cause undue stress right before the carms deadline. If I was the original poster, I would be more worried putting a strong application forward rather than unfairly targeting others  

I agree about irrelevancy of this post, even if it was the case, poster could fund better places to consult with, just ignore these nonsenses 

[Anon_1234asdf]

Not my intention to have any identifying information, I tried to be as vague as possible. I have taken action, and will delete my original post, so this person does not get publicly identified. Thanks for everyone's input.

[Edict]

I agree that the resident shouldn't give feedback if they don't feel comfortable. I'd add that if this person has a consistent track record of lying or embellishment and this is just one further example, this is something I would seriously consider bringing up. There are people who are perpetual liars who would not make good residents/physicians. 

If this is the only example, its a tougher question, without seeing the letter its hard to really say whether this could be a misinterpretation or a case of clear embellishment and exaggeration. 

In many highly competitive specialties, residents are solicited to provide feedback, so this is completely within your friend's right and responsibility. It ultimately is up to the residency selection committee to decide what to do with that information. 

Overall, do not be afraid to bring this up if it is a real consistent, perpetual issue.